I've just started BG2 with an archer and I can tell that with only a simle bow he kills everybody. He just needs one arrow to kill a goblin!
TRY THEM!

Yeah, I agree!
Although I like to play a meele weapon character.

I **really** like the archer, but I've found an issue... are there any missile weapons that actually have sufficient magic enchantment to hit the tougher creatures in the game? I've found Mazzy to have real problems this way, as her missiles simply bounce off of chapter-3-type bad guys...

Russ--
that's a good point...i'm going to make an archer next time i play through, so i might think about conjuring up (CLUAConsole) some arrows +3 for him off the bat, just to save for situations like this. and i'm going to conjure up one of those ammo cases you eventually find in ToB--whether that is even cheating is debatable, just because they hadn't thought of including those in SoA and you only find em in ToB, i think an Archer, of all people, would own an ammo case from his training days even.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Debaser:
i think an Archer, of all people, would own an ammo case from his training days even.<hr></blockquote>

I'm not comfortable using cheats, as I've found that unless I've really played the hell out of a game, I stop enjoying it once I really start messing with it: besides, a 40-arrow quiver is a big quiver. I can't see ranger types burdening themselves with more, nor having universal access to such major magics. But it strikes me as an issue. BGII is much better than BGI and a lot of the others for weapon variety, and the various enchantments on arrows and bolts are good. But if you can't hit your enemies... and also, an archer is a missile specialist, right? What about other missiles? I'd be truly shocked if anybody on this board did anything with throwing knives, for example, evne though, if I were a truly urban fighter, I'd be all over having custom arms of that type enchanted (I'm a committed martial artist IRL, and I can definitely tell you that once you get skilled, most off-the-shelf weapons don't satisfy you. Even if you find one brand really useful (I like Kimber .45, for example), you always find yourself desiring some piece of custom-made gear). Darts of biting can be found, and they're useful, but they take a full weapon slot, and there are few to no alternate missile types with serious enchantments. If there were a patch for increasing magic weapon diversity while keeping game balance, I'd be all for it.

On the other hand, it just occurred to me that the bow with the phantom arrows seems to be a really good workaround for it...

I actually found huge amounts of magical arrows throughout the game.

I'm still in my first run-through with the game (finished SoA and currently in ToB with a 24th lvl sorcerer, Keldorn, Minsc, Imoen, Jaheira and Anomen). My next run-through or two will be to try out other NPCs like Mazzy, Valygar, etc. So I can't try out the Archer class yet.. but I am dying to.

I also found a ton of magical arrows throughout the game, but I guess if you can't hit them yourselves, you always have NPC melee characters to do that.

I've enjoyed having the ammo case in ToB. I had so many arrows and bolts that I was just dropping any +1 versions due to space limitations (would have preferred to sell them later). Sure, with Shadowkeeper you could always recreate them later, but I'm trying to play the game as is.

Question for those who have used the Archer and also used Mazzy (slight spoiler)
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Is the Archer that much more effective than Mazzy? I mean, she has grandmastery in short bow. What else, besides Called Shot, does the Archer have?

Finally... what about an Archer/Cleric combo, going for grandmastery in Slings? I think you'd have to use Shadowkeeper but that combo just popped into my mind...

Archers are good. But like everyone else said sometimes its hard to hit some creatures. I also like to play as a barbarian because they can have dual twohanded weapons later on in the game.

I have heard of people soloing with archers but they are rubbish without any tanks in front to draw fire aren't they?

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...ons/icon15.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...ons/icon15.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...ons/icon15.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...ons/icon15.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...ons/icon15.gifhttp://www.iron worksforum.com/ubb/n...ons/icon15.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...ons/icon15.gif[img]http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/noncgi/icons/icon15.gif[/ img]

Ive played an archer solo though the whole game all the way from jonny boy dugeon to the final battle in TOB and while it was hard at points i still had a lots of fun and its certainaly possiable!

[ 11-16-2001: Message edited by: Thrawn ]</p>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sir Byronas:
I've just started BG2 with an archer and I can tell that with only a simle bow he kills everybody. He just needs one arrow to kill a goblin!
TRY THEM!<hr></blockquote>

*sigh* It took you THIS long to find out? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

In 'short', from an 'expert':

*draws a deep breath*

Yes, Archers are great, yes, the highest enchantment for an arrow in BG2 is +2, no, you won't have any trouble killing anything unless it's a special character or, in some cases, a gollem, no, cheating is not very Archerlike, yes, you can do it if you really want to, yes, Archers can hit anything as long as they specialise, yes, if you specialise in darts you can become good at throwing them, no, the normal bow is better and more traditional than a throwing knife, yes, there area lot of magic items in the game, archers can have 5 slots in longbow from the start, and two in dual-wielding, and one more to spend on whaever you like, Mazzy is not a real archer and will never be a real archer but she does come close to being one, you don't need tanks when playing an archer, though they can be useful.

*passes out due to a lack of oxygen*

Ehr, that is how I see it anyway. You can take it as the truth or find out this is the truth yourself :D


That came out like I answered these questions a thousand times already and am sick of it...
Well, I'm not. Ask me again [img]smile.gif[/img] I love to talk about the archer [img]smile.gif[/img]

I tried an archer once, and I really really liked this character. I was not aware that there were no limits on demi humans so I scrapped my elven archer thinking that I could not get higher than level 15. I will have to try an archer again now that I know better!!!!

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> bow with the phantom arrows <hr></blockquote>

Something to consider about Trasheron's Bow (i.e. the bow with phantom arrows), it's great to give to Nalia or Imoen. But one of the weaknesses of it is that "normal" magical bows get a THAC0 bonus from BOTH the bow and the arrows. Trasheron's Bow thac0 bonus of +3 remains +3. The heartseeker bow firing +2 arrows has a thac0 bonus of +6.


<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> Is the Archer that much more effective than Mazzy? <hr></blockquote>

Mazzy cannot stealth like a good Archer. There's nothing quite like sneaking up close to a mage and peppering him with a volley of arrows.

Whenever I've played Mazzy, the moment that I can equip her with one of the STR enhancing items, I move her to the front lines. She makes a darned good tank. For a halfling that aspires to be a paladin, being a grandmaster with a shortbow just doesn't seem proper.

Question for soloing Archers... ...

ToB Spoiler
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How do you defeat the Ravager????

Nods to Legolas.

When ever you do find one of those enemies that you cannot hit with a +2 arrow, your called shot can enhance it making it possible, at least with the dragons.


About the archer/cleric, I don't see why you would have to cheat that. Just start an archer and dual him or her to a cleric when you reach whatever level you'd like.

Me i just pounded on him as fast as hard ASAP the second he went hostile was the second i was spewing hundreds of arrows per second at him took quite a few try but u can do it

I did some checking into the archer/cleric thing and found out this:
The archer class can only give 2 stars in slings. I can't figure out why this is... Anyway, I am purely speculating on this, but based in the fact you only can put in 2 stars, you probably don't get any bonuses with the sling like you can with the other missle weapons. Sorry.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Thrawn:
Me i just pounded on him as fast as hard ASAP the second he went hostile was the second i was spewing hundreds of arrows per second at him took quite a few try but u can do it<hr></blockquote>

If I recall correctly, you need +4 or better weapons to hit him, which was why I am asking, because to melee him with an Archer is suicidal.

i found too many arrows. I have about 200 arrows of biting
100 +2 arrows. I wanna get rid of them. Also Mazzy and Imoen have all their arrow slots taken up withe flame and acid arrows.

*nods back to Aurican*
*thinks he really should get to work on the quests*

I think the Archer-cleric can only spend two points on slings because it's a fighter-cleric combination (roughly). The warrior part allows you to spend up to five points, while the cleric would only allow one point. They then allow you to spend two points (you'll see this with any warrior/something else combination) instead of the five/one.

The disadvantage being an archer/cleric is mostly that you can't use missile weapons other than slings. The bonusses still apply though.
Just wondering: you could also play an archer-druid if your stats were high enough, right?

BTW, if you don't have ToB and you've got too any arrows, sell them. I played through the game with a large stack of regular arrows, 40 +2 arrows and 40 acid arrows. Hardly needed the special ones...

But that's because I have a 1-use-fobia. It takes a lot to get me to use potions, wands and scrolls (except healing potions). Heck, I didn't even use the called shot and other x-times per day items and abilities. Which, by the way, is one of the reasons I think the archer is so powerful. Legolas was great even without those special abilities and arrows.

One more thing about the heartseeker +3: you can get an additional +7(!) thaco bonus with it once per day. High level archer + Heartseeker +3 + Heartseeker ability + arrow +2 + Bracers of archery = an almost guaranteed hit against whatever you're up against (we're talking large negative THACOs here [img]smile.gif[/img] )

Yes, my paladin friend, Archers are great!

fire tooth i belive that uses +4 arrows?

Firetooth shoots +2 enchanted fire arrows, but my question on the Ravager remains unanswered. I pondered soloing Archer before, but until I cover all my bases, I am delaying it.

I couldn't help you out there just yet.
We got ToB maybe a month ago, had to reorganise the entire computer just so it would run, then discovered the cd was damaged (though there were no scratches on the protective layer) so now we're waiting for a new one (which may take another two weeks)

But, can't you sneak around the Ravager? It's not very heroic, but if it doesn't need to die you don't need to kill it, one less problem.

ToB Spoiler
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You are locked/trapped/no escape/stuck in a room and you have to face the Ravager plus 5-6 Bone Blades( a stronger version of Mordenkenain's Sword).

You have to defeat the Ravager to complete the game, the Bone Blades are not a problem, they are slow and easily outrun,currently the only tactic I know of is to equip the Shield of Reflection and run around the Ravager in circles( it shoots projectiles if you maintain a distance), but this deals 2-3 damage per hit and is rather tedious. I was hoping there might be a better way.

[ADD]
Oooo, I believe I got the answer, Slings. [img]smile.gif[/img] Sling of Everand is +5 and there are +4 enchanted bullets in ToB( sadly, none for bolts and arrows).

Hmmmm... I guess I can try soloing Archer now, after my current solo Sorcerer, or should I solo Wild Mage first? Gah! The choices! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
[/ADD]

[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]</p>

What makes an archer REALLY deadly, try putting his racial enemy in dragons. A great dragon slayer, combined with Keldorn, and your good to go. Or, if you make a custom party, try these three guys in your party. Archer with Dragon as racial enemy, Cavalier Paladin, Cleric. With just those three guys, you have a nasty party. The cleric can stock up on chants and protection from evil, with dozens of mass cures and heals. The archer pounds away at the dragon from a distance. With you cavalier, try to use Carosmyr. The cavalier fights up close, and runs, archer pounds, cleric heals. Very efficient.

SecretMaster, you are exactly correct about archers having a racial enemy of dragons. That's the racial enemy I selected for my archer. Even relatively early on in SoA, my archer practically defeated Fiirkragg by himself. Yes, there were 5 other party members, but my archer probably did at least 90% of the damage!!!

Selecting dragons as an archer's racial enemy is absolutely the way to go!!!

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Magness:

Whenever I've played Mazzy, the moment that I can equip her with one of the STR enhancing items, I move her to the front lines. She makes a darned good tank. For a halfling that aspires to be a paladin, being a grandmaster with a shortbow just doesn't seem proper.<hr></blockquote>

Same. If I've decided she'll be in my party, I get her early enough so she can get mastery in Halberds or Claymores rather than Short sword or short bow.

The role play aspect is a bit wierd though.

A widdle halfling wielding a Two handed sword.... three times her height?? [img]graemlins/awcrap.gif[/img]

Still, she has the sexiest NPC portrait, has a spunky go-get 'em attitude, is really loyal, and fights well.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Magness:
SecretMaster, you are exactly correct about archers having a racial enemy of dragons. That's the racial enemy I selected for my archer. Even relatively early on in SoA, my archer practically defeated Fiirkragg by himself. Yes, there were 5 other party members, but my archer probably did at least 90% of the damage!!!

Selecting dragons as an archer's racial enemy is absolutely the way to go!!!<hr></blockquote>

Very interesting. What about Demon/fell? You'd encounter more of them wouldn't you?

Unlucky if you played a Ranger through BG1 and imported him as an Archer, but his racist hatred was towards Gibberlings or Gnolls.

Yorick,

There may be more demons (particularly in ToB), but the Dragons always seem like the toughest battles. They have sooooo many hit points and can deal out so much damage!!! Archers are a really good counter to wing buffets.

I suppose that the criteria for selecting a racial enemy is somewhat subjective. Do you select the very toughest enemies, even if you only encounter them rarely? Or do you select a not quite so tough/dangerous enemy that you will encounter more often? I suppose that it's a matter of personal preference.

Your point about selecting a racial enemy when you're starting at level 1 is well taken. Perhaps the DnD rules should allow a ranger to reselect racial enemy every 5 levels or so to accomodate the caliber of enemies they're likely to face.

Well, I have started a solo human Archer under Insane difficulty, and I must say... it is painful so far... ...

But I shall march on, because I know he will become powerful later on, just need to level up some more.

STR: 18
DEX: 18
CON: 18
INT: 10
CHA: 08
WIS: 14

Racial Enemy: Demonic/Fell

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]</p>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Magness:
Yorick,

Your point about selecting a racial enemy when you're starting at level 1 is well taken. Perhaps the DnD rules should allow a ranger to reselect racial enemy every 5 levels or so to accomodate the caliber of enemies they're likely to face.<hr></blockquote>

Great idea! Send it in as a suggestion! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Legolas, after your comments I had to try the Archer so I started one friday night and am having a blast with it! Elven Archer with GM in longbow and a 19 dexterity is very powerful.

Question tho - with Tansheron's bow (spelling?) and Gesen Bow being short bows, would the proficiency be better off there? The 2 good longbows I remember are Heartseeker and Elven Court bow. Which has the best capabilities?

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Question tho - with Tansheron's bow (spelling?) and Gesen Bow being short bows, would the proficiency be better off there<hr></blockquote>

If you're really roleplaying the mindset of your archer correctly, he'll have gotten really, really good with one type of missile weapon, and having come from the north, that'sprobably a longbow. But although he'll learn to use a melee weapon if he comes across a really cool one, it's slings and bows and crossbows and the like that really interest him, and so that's where he's most likely to start putting his extra proficiency slots... and in relatively short order, the problem solves itself.

Personally, with an archer, though I'm unfamiliar with the fully-assembled gesen bow, I'd definitely suck up a nonprof. penalty to use the Tuigan Bow...

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hagimihale:

Question tho - with Tansheron's bow (spelling?) and Gesen Bow being short bows, would the proficiency be better off there? The 2 good longbows I remember are Heartseeker and Elven Court bow. Which has the best capabilities?<hr></blockquote>

The Elven Court bow has a +4 thac0, so nothing special. Take either the Mana Bow (+4 to hit, +1 dam., 20% resist mag. dam.) or the Heartseeker (+4 to hit, +2 dam, 9 seconds at additional +7 to hit).
The Heartseeker would be nice for the dragon battles. An additional +7 would go a long way.

In ToB the only other good longbow would be Taralash +4 (upgradeable).

So would a longbow be better to specialize in than a short bow or composite?

I'd go with longbow. In the long run, its a lot better. Hang on, when it says archers can't where metal armor, does that mean chain too?

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Aunora Moonvale:
So would a longbow be better to specialize in than a short bow or composite?<hr></blockquote>

Composites count as long bows. I think the long bows are better than the shortbows.

[b] Welcome to the Board. [b] [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]

THis is for Soa only so imho the short bows are best, because they has magic arrows so you never need to gain up some arrows, if im correct there is no +3 to hit arrows in soa, only in Tob, and the other great stuff, so imho in soa the short bow are best, now if you got tob that's different story.