Does anyone notice that they are
casting the same limited number of
mage spells all the time anyway?
Maybe a sorcerer is worth a shot.

absolutely, but I keep a mage in the back with other spells so I do not feel restrained...http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

Slayer supreme of millions,
Of monsters and villians.
Rest is only for the weak,
Casting spells for weeks.
Enough power to destroy all,
Raise Hell and stand tall!
Enemies will all respect you,
Respect you oh so true.

I cooked this up in five minutes, I am sure someone else can do better. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

That's pretty funny Dundee!! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

And yes, Sorcerors Rule!

S-Stuck with the same 5 spells per level
O-Only can be a single classed spellcaster
R-Rotten combat values unless you waste a slot on Tenser
C-Can't use one withouth a backup mage with spells your sorc will never know
E-Everyone thinks they are so cool.
R-Requires no strategy other than in initial spell selection
O-Only if people knew that wild mages were so much cooler.
R-Really, I'm just kidding, I like sorcerors too, but I like wild mages better.

How's that Dundee?

S-Screw proper memorisation, just blast them with spells.
O-Obscene amount of casting ability.
R-Rarely gets in a sticky situation if properly planned and played.
C-Can cast Dragon's Breath six times.
E-Enough firepower to put Jon Irenicus to shame.
R-Regarded as one of the Top3 kits to solo with( After Kensai/Mage and Assassin).
E-Everybody should love Sorcerers, because they are cool.
R-Relax, to each his own.

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...s/coollook.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

PS: It's Sorcerer, not Sorceror.

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If not a Sorcerer casting total oblivion, then a Paladin meting out justice. Otherwise, I think I will just be a bard and torture my enemies with, "My Heart Will Go On".

Platinium Sorcerer of ALSB, Aerie Loving Sacred Band! She's MeowRrrr, and more!
http://www.gifs.net/animate/dflysb2.gif
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Baldur's Gate Item Mart

Wow, such loyalty to the sorcerer!!!

S-Sorry I spelled Sorcerer wrong the first time
0-Overpowered spellcasting; good for powerplayers, but not for roleplayers
R-Really takes away the challenge to being a spellcaster.
C-Can't import from BG1 in order to roleplay a continuous storyline
E-Everybody has their own opinon though
R-Rather stick to the 2nd ed. AD&D rules (as that's how I learned the game)
E-Eventually plan to play one myself because I do agree to their coolness.
R-Responding only because I'm a smart ass.

SPOILY
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I especially like my sorceror to have the robe of vecna so he can cast so much faster than a mage. I also like selecting so many spells before the game starts. Having the sorceror being able to cast from scrolls makes up for the lack of spells IMHO.

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"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
-Robert McCloskey

S-Starvid remember, your character is a half-God.
O-Overall a good spell caster with some limitations.
R-Realise that being a Sorcerer is the pinnacle of spell-casting.
C-Create your own background story then, that is what RPing is all about.
E-Even though they claim 2nd Ed rules, BI actually uses a modified version.
R-Really though, in the end, it is all about having fun in the game.
E-Embroiled as I am about the Sorcerer, I understand others have other opinions.
R-Regardless, I will still promote them with spunk.

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

My eventual goal is to join the ranks of the rare few who solo with a Sorcerer.

I tried to edit (ShadowKeeper) a Sorcerer to have the Wild Mage kit, and it worked pretty well, until I leveled up a few times. I got the extra spell/day and all the Wild Mage bonus spells (Nahal's Reckless is less useful when you can't use it to cast spells above your possible level).


The bad side is that whenever you get a new 2nd or 7th level spell the game won't allow you to pick anything until you've chosen a Wild Mage-specific spell, and you can't, because you already know them.

If anyone knows how to make kits I'd REEEEEALY love a Wild Sorcerer -- that kit would clear up the whole Wild Mage vs. Sorcerer debate.

-- Nifft

You know I really don't get the wild mage..as far as I see it, the only difference between him and a mage is that he gets those worthless spells (Nahlas Reckless whatever) they are completely useless, why would I wan't to cast a spell from which I can get hurt?!
Well, it is a role-playing game....as we say in Sweden (the taste is like the backside....split)...Sweden Rule!!

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S-Someone at BI mangled 2nd. ed. rules when they brought Sorcerers in.
O-Overall, I think that half-god stuff is a rotten premise
R-Realize that this extra power unbalances the team
C-Can't create a background story, everything has been lain out by BI.
E-Even though this is a good game, I think I prefer PnP
R-Regardless, I'll keep to the BG series until the next D&D adaption comes out.
E-Even though I'll still soapbox my nits
R-Really disappointed with mage spells, I think I'll change to a Ranger/Cleric.

Yes , i do end up casting the same every battle,(Magic Missile, Melfs Acid Arrows and by then me and minsc have minced the opposition). what im gonna try and do is SK imoen to be a multi(not dual) class sorcerer/thief, cos its against the rules (and so interesting) and does not break the plot, yet allows her to become a respectable thief. if you think about it it makes sense, a lot more than her becoming a mage all of a sudden. well maybe not a lot more.

if i ever get this working i'll post it somewhere. if it works well maybe i'll make it as a kit.

Andrewas, I'd agree except that Imoen is human and can't be a multi. Seriously though, if you change her dual so she does so at 10th level, reallocate all her points to locks and traps, she would be a nice thief, and wouldn't have to deal with the slow level advancement of a multi. Normally, I'm against using the cheat progs, but I think I would in this case. I mean, what was BI thinking when they dualed her at level 7? I'd -never- have done that.

I Quote Rule #1 of my own personal wargame and RPG house rules.

Sod the Rules, have fun. Note: people who persistently annoy me by abusing this will get Dice of Deathed.

In other words, The fact thats shes (SPOILER :- NOT) human means nothing at all in terms of this. (cept ive heard BG wont load if you make a human a multi). It can be explained in terms of irenicuses experimentation + her unique heritage.
The point of a game is to have fun (at least ive always thought it was) so if something violates the rules but allows more fun then its good. And one of the points of NPCs is to allow the designer to create unique characters who dont match the typical profile that a player can create, like nalia with her ring etc, yet maintain balance by refusing the player the oppertunity to combine these powers in a unfair fasion.

Since Sorcerors cant be multiclassed (i think) its more interesting than a mage/thief and leads to a more unique experience. Plus i want her extra levels from BG1 back. So making Imoen a mage/thief was a bad decision on all counts.

additional : does anyone know WHY humans cant multi?

addditional additional : i also prefer PnP but the players around here really suck. example:

Player one : i'll ... bite the rock (no, there were no drugs involved)
DM : the rock bites back (only allan could think like this)
Player two : fireball on player one (I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN THIS)

so you can see the appeal of a CRPG.

back to the point slightly, if there was an NPC sorceror maybe id try him out, but im not making one for a while yet. cause i have to go through BG1 + BG2 witha druid, mage and thief (someone bet i woudnt) and i want to solo with a monk.

that -is- why PnP games and players sucked around anywhere. Everyone said sod off to the rules and did whatever the hell they wanted. Most people made uberPCs, which totally kills half the fun of D&D. And it shows here for a cRPG with how everyone hacks whatever they want. The only rule I don't follow is "The Almighty Rule #1: you can change whatever rules you want" (which I believe is actually stated in the 2nd ed. PH. It's all crap, without the rules, you have a group of people, all playing their own game. There was only one group that I played some decent D&D with. We stuck to the rules and had a lot of fun. Later on, when I tried running my own group, everybody wanted to be dual wielding elf ranger/mages with 18s in all stats or some shit like that. I didn't play for more than two sessions before giving the whole thing up.

Freedom is cool and all, but it turns a lot of people into jackasses.

So then are sorcerers just power
characters or can you have fun
roleplaying? (Oh look, some innocent
peasants and look at all the extra
spells I get per level!!!)

Well... you can make a Sorcerer into the most powerful Diviner in the world... if you so desire.

*Gasp!* I can cast Farsight 6 times a day!

Or maybe you can roll a dice and let chance choose your spell selection. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

I always get this mental image where the Sorcerer wakes up and suddenly a holographic menu of spells appear before him/her, and he/she gets to choose whatever spell he/she desires whenever I level up. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif

Rule 0 is of course the the DM is god etc. the point is that, as long as the players are consistent and listen to the dm, the rules are not set in stone. they can be changed. changed because they hamper the plot, changed because a player want to try something different, changed because the Dm is getting bored with everyone playing the same standard clases. although there is still no excuse for a party of trolls...

as long as you have a good dm who can keep control, and the strange people who play the game (not that RPGers are strange. just the ones round here) are all mature and can keep themselves in some kind of order, the rulebook become less important.

and any dm who lets everyone play 18 all stats super chars has only himself to blame where it goes pear shaped. all im saying is that, at time, in moderation, and with the DMs aproval you can bend the rules. like making a human into a multi sorceror/thief because it adds variety and creates a unique character with unique abilities instead of another crappy dual mage/thief.

oh, and when the player realises that the restriction you placed on his super-char (you did restrict the super chars somehow? halve their hit-points, lower their spell slots, raise their thaco. only dont make it sound a big deal at the time) outweigh the benefits he _is_ stuck with them. until he gets dead - only playing out of character for the gain of the player (ie walking off a cliff to get a new char) is a punishable offense. or at least it should be.

Fuzzy Animal's Sorcerer spell choices:

1st level:
Magic Missle
Identify
Protection from Evil
Charm Person
Chromatic Orb

2nd level:
Mirror Image
Melf's Acid Arrow
Stinking Cloud
Web
Resist Fear

3rd level:
Dispel Magic
Haste
Lightning Bolt
Flame Arrow
Fireball

4th level:
Improved Invisibility
Minor Sequencer
Spirit Armor
Stoneskin
Fireshield (Red)

5th level:
Animate Dead
Breach
Lower Resistance
Domination
Cloudkill

6th level:
Chain Lightning
Contingency
Globe of Invulnerability
Pierce Magic
True Sight

7th level:
Mordenkainen's Sword
Spell Turning
Prismatic Spray
Khelben's Warding Whip
Spell Sequencer

8th level:
Simulacrum
Spell Trigger
Improved Mantle
Symbol Stun
Maze

9th level:
Chain Contingency
Spell Strike
Spell Trap
Timestop
Wail of the Banshee

Opinions? Comments?

1st level- I would pick charm person, too easy to save. I'd find friends more useful instead. Or prot. from evil if you are soloing/don't have a cleric to cast it.

2nd level- I might choose invis over stinking cloud...though SC works well with an undead summon. Though don't forget, there are a lot of other undead in the game.

3rd level- I'd probably choose remove magic over lightning bolt, and skull trap over fireball.

4th level- Greater Malison over imp. invis., emotion over fireshield, and maybe secret word over spirit armor

5th level- instead of domination I'd have spell immunity, and I might sub cloudkill for chaos.

6th level- true sight, summon nish. protection from magic energy, summon nish., pierce magic (or death spell), and Chain lightning

7th level- pretty much the same for me.

8th level- Abi Wilting, Spell Trigger, Pierce Shield, Simulacrum

9th level- Time Stop, Spellstrike, Chain Contingiency, Gate or Bibgy's

that's my 2 cents.

Fuzzy, you only get four 8th and four 9th. I'd drop Wail from your 9th list. Horrid Wilting at 8th is good, improved mantle isn't that great. Your 4th level selection could stand to lose spirit armor and fireshield and replace with icestorm and greater mal (I think that one is 4th level). Might want to take a look at melf's minute meteors, that's a good one to have. I'm not a big fan of chromatic orb, creatures get +6 to their save for that spell.

I won't go into more detail. Always seems like that all sorcerers/mages end up almost identical. Same gear, same spells, etc. I think some general guidelines would be better. I'd say have at least one spell per level that does damage (except 9th since you get the quest spells). And go easy on the defensive stuff. Get all of the sequencers and contingencies. Try and cover all the areas of damage, like fire, cold, acid, and so on. I don't see any cold spells on your list.

Overall, your choices look pretty good.

The Toe

Thanks for the input, I may
have to revise my selection. I
forgot that I have ToB installed
and can choose Bigby hand spells.
I also forgot to include cold spells,
I always did like cone of cold. I
thought a sorcerer got 5 spell slots
for every level, guess I am mistaken.
I am not quite ready to solo the game
yet, so I should take that into
consideration (less defensive spells,
cleric spell backup, fighters to protect
me.) I love all the sequencer spells, and
contingencies. I will listen to more advice
keep up the good work!! Thanks!!

Technically, they do get 5 of every level. But with the xp cap of 8 million, you only get four 8th and four 9th. And I forgot about Spell Immunity at 5th, but StarVid didn't. That one is sort of a necessity. Otherwise, you have to reload when you get imprisoned by a lich.

The Toe

Just to let everyone know, I am revamping my Sorcerer Spell List webpage. Version 1.03 is on the way.

Okay here are my sorcerer guidelines:


1) At least one attack spell per level, but try to not have more than two.
2) Don't take too many fire spells! There are more fire-immune monsters as you get farther into the game, especially in ToB.


3) Look for spells which get better as you level up. Fireball is bad, for example, because it maxes out at 10th level (10d6). Skull trap has half the range but has no maximum damage---if you're 20th level it'll do 20d6 damage, and three of them in a sequencer will do 60d6.

4) Ignore spells which can be replicated with items. Cloudkill may rock, but it rocks just as much when it's from a wand. Similar thinking for Aganazar's Scorcher, Fireball, Monster Summoning II, Cone of Cold and Lightning Bolt, though the wand versions of those aren't precisely as effective as the spell versions. There's no reason to take the spell Strength: there are plenty of strength-increasing belts and potions. Haste is tricky---you will have two pairs of Boots of Speed by the end of SoA, and about a hundred in ToB :-D so the only things you'll care about hasting are summoned monsters. How often will you haste a horde of monsters? More than once per day? I doubt it.


5) If you're not soloing your sorcerer, count on having another mage around to cast some support spells. You don't need to select Friends or Knock or any other spell that deals with problems that will be there after you rest. Likewise True Seeing is a great spell, but your local cleric, inquisitor or druid can cast it just fine, too.

6) Take multi-purpose spells! Glitterdust == Blindness + See Invisible. Pierce Magic == Lower Resistance + Ruby Ray.


7) Project Image! This spell increases your firepower sixfold or more. It won't attack, though, so don't cast Melf's Minute Meteors with it. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif Simulacrum sucks compared to this spell.


8) Don't ever take Protection from Fire, Cold, Electricity, etc.. That's what Clerics and scrolls are for.


-- Nifft