Mistakenly called her Amoen in an earlier post...

Wondering how early most of the board has gone to free Imoen. I recall reading here that Imoen is a better mage than Jan in the long run (since she can get high level spells). It occurs to me that it would be worth swapping out Jan for Amoen early so that Imoen gets as much XP as possible.

Is Imoen a liability from a thief standpoint? How hard is the quest to get her back? I will have the needed $ soon. Thanks for any and all opinions...

Interesting post Hagimi. I think you like to pit agains NPC's http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif Well Imoen VS Jan hmm though fight http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

First of all, Jan is funny, Imoen is sexy they cannot be compared, ok ok here it's.. as I found Imoen Nalia's XP was 1.900.000 and Imoen? She was only 400.000! There's 1.500.000 xp difference and Jan got better thievry skills. And also if your protagaonist is a mage so Imoen is useless, because already you got a primary mage. A primary mage is enough and backups are bonus, useful.

Will Imoen's thievery skills be enough? I didnt play with her so much so I cant give you a satisfinyg answer but her detect illusion skill was zero as I remembered and this skill lets you detect illusion/hidden doors. I may be wrong if so please correct me. And her other skills are mediocre not great but you can make her satisfinyg with potions.

I said so much bad things about Imoen but with my other party I'll take her. My current party is me(fighter),anomen,minsc,jan,nalia,aerie. My other party is me(skald),keldorn,valygar,yoshimatsu,jaheira,anome n. I will replace yoshi with Imoen and I'll try her out.

Main character is a sorcerer. Also have Anomen, Jahiera, Minsc, Viconia (for now) and of course Jan. Restarted the game at the end of chapter 1 to swap out Yoshi for Jan. Jan (or Imoen) will be a backup mage and primary thief.

you can still swap a char; just tell em to wait at the copper corenet!

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Where do you find Jan?

Jan is in the gov. section at the parks.

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Imoen is still better than Jan even if *you* are a mage. Her thief skills are decent and as a single class character she will hit level 18 LOOOOOOONNNNNNGGGG before Jan.

Having two mages capable of casting level 8 & 9 spells is definitely a good thing and to your advantage in *any* fight.

Jan is good for pickpocketing and setting traps (very useful once you set his success rate to 90% and above).

So far, he has helped me earn about 700K through pickpocketing and I've managed to buy everything I need from Deirdre, Ribald and Trademeet merchants. And I still have a few more potions of master thievery, in case I need more.

But I agree Imoen is a better support in terms of spellcasting.

I've found that support spellcasters are overrated. In most fights, it becomes to complex and chaotic (especially in ToB), to have multiple mages casting tons of spells. For me, Edwin is enough in the spellcasting department. I don't know the makeup of your party, but you'd be better off picking up another fighter, such as Keldorn, or possibly Viconia if you are short on clerics.

I'm toying with the idea of using imoen this time, though, as I wouldn't mind hearing some of her dialouges at plot points.

I disagree about a point. Imoen can be a better mage than Jan but Jan is a much better THIEF than Imoen. Imoen is stuck with level 7. Jan can advance to level 25. Do you know the difference?

What's Imoen's detect illusion skill?

zero!

Can this skill improved with any potions etc?

no..

So jan rocks!

detect illusion? i didnt think anyone used that since ANY hidden door will reveal itself if you stand there long enough, and the only other use is dispelling those werewolves at the circus tent (which you can kill anyway). i think its pretty useless unless youve found some tactic with it i havent.

my party consists of:

Myself (human NG Sorcerer)

Minsc

Anomen (he's passed his test - I can deal with his haughty personality and will probably keep him)

Jahiera (undecided here but leaning towards keeping her)

Jan (not as good a thief as Yoshi, but his role as a backup spellcaster is a worthwhile tradeoff - but longterm I'm wondering if Imoen is better)

Viconia (added her short term to do some minor quests in the city before Jan's and Anomen's quests kicked in - will most likely give her the boot for other NPCs for their quests: Mazzy, Keldorn, Valygar etc)

My considerations regarding Imoen vs. Jan:

1. Thieving skills: Imoen cannot advance further. Open locks isnt THAT important since I can cast Knock. Neither is pickpocket - I find I dont use it that much. Set traps IS a consideration but Jan hasn't been that effective at setting them. FIND traps is my main line of thinking - Jan has been EXCELLENT here.

2. Spellcasting. Does Jan's intelligence prevent him from casting high level spells in either SoA or ToB? I've read that only Nalia and Imoen can get the really high level spells.

It seems to me that these concerns may be more relevant in ToB than in SoA. I'm still a newbie and appreciate any and all replies from this board. This game is quite addicting! =)

what it comes down to is find/remove traps vs. faster mage advancement and access to high level spells.

As for two casters at once, I have a party with three mages- it's not that chaotic and is incredibly effective. You can completely tip the balance of a fight before your tanks even wade into battle...

There's a thing I'm curious about.

"Detect Illusion" skill lets you to detect hidden doors, right? I may be wrong so if I am, please correct me. If your thief has detect illusion skill and it's high purple doors appears quickly if you're low with this skill, it may take a few seconds more and if you leave the area you can miss it. Am I right my friends?

Everyone has a chance per round (?) of detecting secret doors. Thiefs are high in this. With detect traps on they will ALWAYS immediately see it. I am unsure that detect illusions help at all.



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Imoen's detect ilusion skill is 0. So it means she has the same chance with a non-thief chracater, right?

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hhma

I thought detect illusion would let you see through illusion/phantasm spells, such as simulacrum. Is that right?

The Toe

That's disgusting! Imoen's your sister! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif

I havent played bg1 and I dont know her never saw her before
I Lost my memory at the beginning of bg2. so I dont remember that she is my sis http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

Depends on wether you want a thief > mage (jan) or a mage > theif (imoen). I prefer Jan as BG2 really lacks good theifs but if i'm playing good i usually end up with imoen.

i wish this were the case.

logically, if this were so, detecting illusions would based more on INT/WIS rather than a thief skill. cant recall off the top of my head but i believe 2nd edition rules did have something like that along the lines of 19 INT sees through 1st level illusion spells, 20 sees through 2nd, etc.

in any case, they split stealth into two different abilities even though one without the other is useless (takes the average of the two), and find traps, open locks, and set traps always get my points before i would bother with "detect hidden doors which will eventually show up anyway".

detect illusion is pure uselessness.

so 'hide in shadows' and 'move silently' are the same thing? It just takes an average score? Thats something I always wondered.. Good thing I gave decent points to each.

i think they did this so that each one could be modified seperately and then averaged, so things like illumination and cover could affect HS and background noise and walking surface could affect MS.