I was wondering whet people thought the optimal all created party would be.

Also, as an aside, I've seen a lot on dualed Kensais but from what I can see, dualing them at low teens results in a stagnant THAC0 that doesnt really ever improve until much higher levels and doesn't seem to guarantee a hit to the extent that a straight kensai does.

Anyways I would choose for my party:

1 Half-Orc Barbarian dualling axes and scimitars (and other stuff with the extra slots)

2 Half-Orc Kensai dualling katanas and war hammers (for the good katana and the hammer with 25 str.)

3 Inquisitor with two handed swords, bows and crossbows (true sight and dispel magic are priceless)

4 Elvish Sorceror - IMHO absolutely necessary in any party - allows for such versatility in spellcasting without always changing spells beforehand - there seem to be only a few levels where more than 5 spells are really used anyways - though I don't really use summoning spells because they slow things down so much.

5 A multiclassed thief/cleric who honestly doesn't do much but is necessary for her skills

6 A monk (though a dual classed fighter/mage would round out the party perfectly - my stats showed that the dualled mage was more or less redundant with the sorceror so I figured more power up front would only help)

What do you think?

Very tank heavy...

classing the cleric and the thief is a waste... you have a cleric that can only wear leather and a thief that can't wield bladed weapons.

Lots of bricks taking hits, coupled with a half-speed advancing cleric could lead to trouble, especially considering the kensai's lack of armor and the barbarian's anti-plate restriction.

I'd ditch either the kensai or monk for a full time cleric and double the thief with a mage, giving you twice the casting, especialy considering the sorcerers limits in quantity of spells learned.

This is my party which is working out pretty well for me (killed Kangaxx and Frikraag at about level 12/13)

Damien - Elven Beastmaster
This was actually an experiment which worked fine as I now use the rangers stealth and Staves as weapons Also he's able to use bows - a normal ranger is better though

Rikard - Elven Sorcerer
As you said yourself Sorcerers are invaluable for any team

Iason - Assassin
He's a pretty useful fighter or at least when he's not hit (he has the lowest XP because he dead so often) can kill any mage by backstabbing (as long as they don't use true sight) And kills of liches with one press on the daystar button

Jerome - Undead Hunter
Carsomyr rox in combo with his 127% Fire resistance
Ideal against fire using monsters and undead

Dolgan - Cleric of Helm
He's where i get my True Sight spells from
Also a great healer and a moderate Fighter (with Crom Feayr)

Mikaël - Bezerker Dualled to Mage (level 8)
Bezerker Rage can come in handy against imprisonment spell users
Also backup Mage who has the spells not so often used and not memorized by my sorcerer and ofcourse a XP-Boomer with spell learning



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as per oldbitercraigs comments I have treied all different sorts of cleric/ranger, straight cleric multi and dualled clerics and other combinations but I always found that they contributed minimally to actually harming the enemy. Both the thief and cleric are not so good in terms of attack per round, and all the cleric really did was sit and absorb punishment and her offensive spells I found not so useful. Same with the thief as I generally used the always search for traps script so unless the fight was big he generally just sat there. I just don't see a fighter cleric and fighter thief/swashbuckler/kensaithief or whatever being as useful as a theif/cleric and some other powerful character (in this case it was the addition of the monk). I have never had a cleric or thief pull their own and this seems to just be the best way - admit defeat and move on.

As for ditching the kensai - in every game I've played she has always killed the most baddies and the Barbarian's restrictions are not so bad because I can always throw in a shield and rage increases AC and there is some really good splint mail late in SoA.

As for the extra mage, I've gone through with a sorceror and once a dualed and once a multi classed fighter/mage - I love magic users - but have (of course) always given the robe of viconia to the sorceror and found the Fighter/Mage was just casting at dead people or taking too long to get anything done, and his THAC0 was that of a 9th (or 12th) level fighter, which is not great. I thought this time that the monk would probably kill more than the fighter/mage and the lost spells were minimal (basically the only problem is clarvoyance and the odd remove petrification when I don't have a scroll)

As per Rikard, I've tried an undead hunter once, but I find the dispell magic and true sight of the inquisitor to be absolutely indespensible and far more valuable than the bonuses of the undead hunter.

I've never tried an assassin but it looks like (in the manual at least) the Assassin's extra poison damage is static and does not increase with levels and as such it seems like the class would be more and more of a hinderance as levels increas, and they only get one attack per round.

Beastmaster has never looked really appealing and as for the Priest, you would be amazed at how giving the crom feayr to someone with more than one attack per round drastically increases its value. My Kensai uses it in her off hand and thus the celestial fury is wielded at 25 str which almost guarantees every blow is punishing.

Basically for my strategy, I have the barbarian (who moves faster) in battle first. Everyone focuses their attacks on him, and the kensai and monk approach and take the baddies at the sides. Inquisitor either meelees or bows (depending on circumstances) and can be held back bowing to protect the weaker ranged characters from being cornered, and the sorceror will breach any mages in the area so that I can set the barbarian or kensai on them and then wilt (at higher levels) death spell or chaos etc. at the group. Thief/Cleric just does a little bit of healing or can be thrown in to hold the line and allow for someone to fall back for a bit. Also, the inquisitor can use the harp that causes chaos which can also be useful.

I also found that equiping the scimitar which allows for one extra attack per round (from the druid grove) in the Barbarian's off hand works wonders for his main weapon.

The Suacy Intruder should get extra post *points* for these last two post.

If I try to type that much, my fingers get tired.

My multiplayer party has the following;

Monk
assasin
elven mage
dwark bezerker
drow cleric (I pretend she is drow, use Viconia's pic, evil aligned)
insert various NPC for quests...

If it helps any, I try to base a party on an idea. I once made 4 Half-Orc's and 1 Human, and made the game based on 'Orc's Revenge'. I never got very far into it, as I'm not a Half-Orc or Barbarian fan..

I've once done a 6 sorcerer party... very interesting. Needless to say, most enemies never knew what hit them.

I haven't yet played a game with only created characters, but I'm planing on doing it and have given some thought to it's composition. this is what I came up with:
- monk; for their immunities and all-round versatility
- inquisitor; for dispel magic, true sight and carsomyr.
- plain fighter or kensai; need a fighter with grandmastery and dual-wielding katanas and longswords (perhaps axes for the plain fighter) http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif. unlike some people however, I can't see a kensai using anything but swords; a 'sword saint' with a warhammer in the off-hand... just strikes me as weird http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif
- elven sorcerer; sorcerer... enough said. staff of magi, robe of vecna, the usual stuff http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif
- dual-class thief/mage, dualed at around lvl 10. that gives me good lockpicking and trap detection, other thieving abilities I don't need. but I do need a backup mage.
- dual-class fighter/cleric or ranger/cleric. dualed around lvl 9. he/she can do A LOT more than just sit in the back and cast an ocasional healing or defense spell. uses crom faeyr and either a good shield or the flail of ages in off hand.

This is my made up party which is 1/4 of the way through ToB, first I'm going show you what it was like in SoA.
1/Thorgrim,Dwarf Berzerker (Chaotic good)
2/Felix,Human Ranger (Chaotic good)
3/Ajantis,Human Paladin (Lawful good)
4/Yeslick,Dwarf Fighter/Cleric (Lawful good)
5/Cypher, Half-elf Swashbuckler (Neutral good)
6/Xan, Elf Mage (Lawful good)

Thorgrim provided the hack and slash, Felix assisted him. Ajantis and Yeslick were there to tie up loose ends(Although at one point of the game Yeslick was 20 kills ahead of Thorgrim!). Cypher was the much needed thief and in combat he easily held his own and Xan was the mage of the party. In Tob the only things that changed were Xan changing to a wild mage and Ajantis being replaced with "Someone" else(I just assumed he died in the fight against Irenicus). This party has not let me down more then three times. It may be one sided towards combat but I like it.

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"It dosn't matter whether you believe in reincarnation. The point is, does reincarnation believe in you?
Sigmar, member of clan HADB.

BeI get the strong impression you are a powergamer more then a Role Player
If that is the case it's indeed very usefull to have a Kensai wielding Celetial Fury and Crom Fear to do Massive damage and the Barbarian as Shield (but it might be better to use a Beserker instead) the Inquisitor can come in handy though dispell magic can be gained from Carsomyr aswell

I just do not see the use of 4 Fighter-type characters in your party
if you would take on the priest i admid he won't be a good fighter but he's a better healer then a thief/cleric and you'll need it

Also an assassin is not someone you send in for melee combat but someone you use to backstab a mage and give poison damage so the mage won't cast spells during the whole battle After that attack you can withdraw you assassin equip him with a bow and attack from range, this way your inquisitor won't have to attack from range and can fully use Carsomyr

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*Sniff* my first touch of stardom http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

I found this party worked well:

Kensi. (katana & long sword dual weild.)
Beserker (2 handed swords)
Fighter dualled to Cleric ( 5*'s in War hammer :evillaugh: )
Cleric/mage (just for backup healing and spellcasting)
Theif dualled to Mage (Nuff said.)
Sorceror (and again, just to provide versitility.)


This is an experimental party i played... they worked fine! As long as the fighter and theif were dualled at quite a low level, natrually http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif


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If anyone's interested, this is my six man party:

Male Inquisitor
Male Half-Orc Barbarian
Male Human Ranger/Cleric, started as ranger and gone cleric at lvl6, I believe.
Female Halfling Swashbuckler
Female Human Cleric/mage, started as cleric and gone mage at level7, I believe.
Male Elf Sorceror

This way I got a good fighter who can use the cool 2hand swords and cast dispel&true sight.
I got a tank with my barb, he uses Celestial fury and shield.
I got a third fighter with my C/R, who is also my main cleric. He's a dualwielder by the way (guess where the Crom Faeyr's goin'?).
I got a straight thief and a back archer/fighter.
I got a backup cleric and a straight mage in the same char.
And of course the asskickin' sorceror!!

As for the dualclassers in my party, I dualled them at does levels coz there skills were ok then, and this way when u start BG2 u allready have the skills of ur first class back.

What Happend to 6 Paladins http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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I went with:

Chris Majere: He is a ranger, I wish I picked him to be a fighter. But I am too lazy to change it all. He uses two longswords. Currently he has a +3 of some sort and the Equalizer. He also has many more items, but those are the main ones I like.

Selena Kyle: Thief that dual classed to a mage. She has a slew of items. But I keep her with the Gesen bow and sometimes have her use two short swords, the one with constant free action and one that is a +4. She is nice cause she has all the thief skills I really use at max points, like find and remove traps and pick locks. She also has the weapon proficiencies from being a thief that she wouldn't normally have as a mage. For example, two-weapons style, shortbow, short sword, etc. She was a Swashbuckler thief also so she has some other benefits.

Heather Darkshadow: She is a cavalier paladin. She has the holy avenenger and the sword of vorpal. I use the vorpal more, but am training another character with the two handed sword so they can each use one. I kind of wish I made this a normal paladin, because it does suck without ranged attacks. But the two-handed swords are so cool I doubt I'd use them anyway.

Kaitin Leafblade: I had this character be a thief assassain that dual classed into a fighter. She has some extra weapon proficiencies from her time as a thief, like crossbow and such. Plus I did the opposite of what I did with my thief/mage. I had her thief points go towrads stealth skills. As a fighter I had her learn two weapons style as best as she could and learn to use the Bastard Sword to the best ability.

Nathan Dayspring: He is my fighter that dual classed to being a Cleric. I made sure that he would only learn weapons cleric's can use so he is the best a fighter can be with a war hammer, he has the one that gives you a STR 25. He also has 3/5 or so slots in the flail, for the flail of ages. He currently wears the red dragon armor, shield, and helmet so he is pretty much immune to fire attacks.

My last character is kind of what I intended for my main character. He is a fighter that knows how to use two weapon style as best as he can. He is also the best with the Scimitars that he can be. I forget his name and that is why I didn't list it.

IMHO your best bet is to go with more dual classed characters. fighters (berserkers or kensai work good) to other characters. a kensai mage instead of a straight kensai gives you more spell casting options and you don't really lose much in the way of combat ability. a kensai/thief for the neccesary thieving duties and then like a berserker cleric instead of the thief cleric. dual classing totaly rocks compared to multi classing IMHO.

Yeah, 4 Berserkers and 2 kensai, kensai dual to thief and mage, one berserker duals to cleric and voila, power team!

btw I dualed my kensai mage at level 12 and he hit better than my straight fighters like minsc or keldorn until ToB I think. those +1 to hit an damage every 3 levels makes a huge difference. Sure it doesn't compare to a straight kensai but when comparing to normal fighters you will have a mage with a thac0 equal to most everyone else in the party... On top of that you can wear robes if you go with a mage (or backstab abilities as a thief). I think by the time that your thac0 starts to lag behind the class that you dualed to really starts to pay off and you melee less anyhow. THis happened with my kensai/mage. I found once I got to ToB he was so killer as a mage I used his mage abilities in the hard fights and when I wanted to save spells I used his fighting abilities (and then his slightly lower thac0 did not matter as much)

Okay... Team I would use...

Skald as group leader
Decent fighter and Charisma of 18 is pretty natural to him, and takes care of pickpocketing

Half-Orc Barbarian.
Useful humanshield/bodyguard

Priest of Talos
Healing, Lightning, Stormshield etc. very useful if you ask me

Common thief, Halfling most probably.

Gnome illusionist with intelligence 19, but don't try to make female gnome..
Hairy male gnome in pink dress is not one of the sexiest sights there might be. At least that happened in IWD.

And of course you need a good ol' fighter dwarf who takes all the damage for you and interrupts all those nerdie mages trying to do their tricks etc.

So there..

They ended up in an evil smiting contest to see who would get Carsomyr.
By the end of it, no one was left standing. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gifhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif



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Somehow i find this quite typical http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif


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