Hi,

SMALL SPOILERS
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I butchered Edwin like a steer, as the title says. I am playing a relatively good party, and was doing the Mae'Var sub-quests.

Mae'Var is a rather irritating person, but the insulting remarks from Edwin were a little over the top.

I liked my party and decidded that although Edwin is a good mage, I didn't want him in the group cause I was full and happy with things as they stood.

So anyway, after the Mae'var subquests were taken care of I tracked Edwin down at the Copper Coronet and cut him to pieces as payback for being such an insufferably superior pain in the ass.

It was rather satisfying -- even though he's only pixels and code. I especially liked hearing that spell failure dialogue he has.

Anyhow, I was wondering: will this come back to haunt me? Does he play a role in the plot later on?

Have you ever thought about playing an evil party? Should suit your playing style better...

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Calvin the bold http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/CALVIN.gif he´s the one!

No, I reject the bourgeois concepts of "good" and "evil."

My position is to consider choices as relative to the society in which they are made. Absolutes have no place in my world.

As such I reject entirely the entire concept of allignment.

It may be the weakest part of the game, in my opinion. I hated it right from the start -- and I started playing D&D when it came in that little blue box, back in 1980.

But really, I'm much more interested in the consequences of hacking that schmuck Edwin to little tiny bits. Anyone have any input?

TIA,

Terence



[This message has been edited by Terence The Unspecial (edited 08-16-2001).]

Well, no.

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Calvin the bold http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/CALVIN.gif he´s the one!

SPOILER
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I imagine it will be ok, its just that I dumped Yoshimo from my party, wanting to take another more powerful NPC instead, and then found out that --horrors-- he is a (small) part of the Chapter 3 plot and the source of some nice XP.

I just wanted to make sure that Edwin did not play some similar role later on.

It sounds like you should play Gerps, instead of D&D. The rules are more to your liking.

Well, actually the D&D game is a rule system, and I think always has been.

That means you can take whatever parts of it you like, ignore the ones you don't, add to it, change it or whatever you want.

As long as the people I play with agree with my position, there shouldn't be a problem. And in this case, I'm playing on my computer and the box hasn't said a word of complaint.

I hardly think you are in a position to tell me that there is only one right way to play and that I am wrong. On the other hand, if you believe in the concept of Allignment so strongly, that may be EXACTLY what you are telling me.

But Im happy with D&D and so I think I'll stick with it, in spite of your suggestions.

Im only after one piece of information. Does anybody know if whacking Edwin have down the road plot implications.

Thanks,

To the best of my knowledge brutally murdering Edwin does not impact on any quest later on in the game.

Hope that helps.

I understand Minsc particularly enjoys doing the job.

Thanks. That was indeed the information I was looking for.

Just for the record, the reputation of the party did not suffer when we cut Edwin up like bait in the front room at the Copper Coronet, which I take to mean that the developer doesn't really care if you scrag him.

And that not having him around to cast spells on your enemies is about as bad a punishment as you get for killing him.

Which could mean that the developer agrees with me that sometimes good people do bad things, and sometimes bad people do good things. Maybe good and bad depends on where you stand and what you see.

In history (our, real history) do people proclaim themselves to be evil? Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear? Was Irenicus nice to his pets?

Tune in to next week's turgid episode of "Get your Moral Relativism out of My Fantasy" where we poke sticks at captured dwarves in the name of science.

It doesn't matter whatsoever. It will have no impact on your game. Do me a favor and kill Aerie too will ya?



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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)
http://www.asnsoup.com/milamberanim3.gif
Member of CLAN HADB

Cool, thanks. And thanks for not accusing me of murder. Heh heh heh.

Oh, come on now, it's not murder...more like population control. Aerie deserves it. She drives me insane!!!

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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)
http://www.asnsoup.com/milamberanim3.gif
Member of CLAN HADB

"ooh, there are such stories among my people. being underground is just not for the avariel...."

"shaddap, stumpy or ill pull your legs off too."

I HATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATEHATE<H3>HATE</H3> Edwin.
Sorry, just my 2. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

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http://members.aol.com/lasttrueprinc...s/lioness1.jpg
Sword Saint of the HADB Clan
Waitress and entertainer at Cloudy's Cafe
Little Angel of Ironworks :angelwings:

don't sugar coat it. tell us how you *really* feel.

And I suspect you are in good company, after all, I had my hale band of pixels gut his smart ass pixels like a fish cause I didn't like the tone of his scripted text interactions.

computes?

Terence

Good and Evil 'bourgeois'... have you heard the term 'buzzword generator'

I suggest unless you know the context of the words that you are using, you might prehaps try a less "syllable intensive workout" (I love Edwin).

Edwin is cool he always starts stuff with my other members and when they threaten to beat his ass he shuts up hehe.

Minsc or his hampster?

Well you will miss out on the exp and plot of the nether scroll quest, which rocks, basically.

Also, gotta love Edwin and Viconia's dialouges - Viconia questioning Edwin about men from Thay's rumored .. um .. prowess. Edwin's response is classic.

"The bourgeoisie has subjected the country to the rule of the owns. It has created enormous cities, has greatly increased the urban population as compared with the rural, and has thus rescued a considerable part of the population from the idiocy of rural life. Just as it has made the countryside dependent on the towns, so it has made barbarian and semi-barbarian countries dependent on the civilised ones, nations of peasants on nations of bourgeois, the East on the West. The bourgeoisie keeps more and more doing away with the scattered state of the population, of the means of production, and of property. It. has agglomerated population, centralised means of production, and has concentrated property in a few hands." Karl marx

Bourgeois concept of evil? As can be seen from the quote above, Bourgeois is a phrase used since the 19th century to denote the wealthy, propertied middle-class. Good and evil by comparison has been a term in use as far back as recorded history (some book called the bible makes passing mention if i remember rightly). As for your actions in killing Edwin, you don't seem to consider them evil, but others might. Killing someone because you don't like their turn of phrase seems pretty evil to me. Your failure to recognise this seems to stem from your unwillingness to accept the consequences of your actions. Just because you refuse to acknowledge the existence of good and evil doesn't make your actions right. Unless you can prove that there are no such things as good and evil, or right and wrong, you must acknowledge the possibility of their existence and therefore the possibility that your actions were unwarranted. I would be interexsted to see what scale you used to measure the merits of your actions. Does it run something like "What I deem acceptable, what I deem unacceptable". This is a trait becoming more and more a characteristic of modern society and while it can be a good measure of judgement (do what you feel is right), it is also a highly subjective one.

Heh, I killed Edwin once to try to get his Amulet. Didn't work... ...

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If not a Sorcerer, then a Paladin.
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Baldur's Gate Item Mart

As Yogurt once said to Lone Starr: "The ring is bubckus! the Shwartz is in you, Lone Starr!". The same way the amulet is nothing. Edwin gets his bonus spells because he was trained by the Wizards of Thay, and those guys a mean m.f. servants of Mystra, so to speak. In other words the amulet would have been useless to you.

A computer game is a lousy context for a discussion of morality.

And as a basis for discussing for the content of someones character, it is even worse.

The fundamental mistake you make in your post is assuming that my actions in a computer game have any bearing on my actions -- actual or hypothetical-- in reality.

My issue with the game was simply a question of plot. That has been ably answered by other posters, who have my thanks.

If you want to discuss cultural constructions of good and evil, modernism, binary oppositions, post modernism, Romanticism or empiricism, which would give us a good start on morality, feel free to email me at the address in my profile.

Awwww, don't be like that - He's funny and incompetent - if you don't like him you'll like what happens to him after ToB (no I won't spoil you here http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif)




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In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is pimp.
Lord Raptor's Site
http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...s/chickenL.gif

Wow we have culture... any second now we'll break into a flaming war about the exerstancial nature of existance... or maybe I'll just go and anwser a few more "what are these golden bones for" questions, decisions decisions.

Existential.

I suggest unless you know the spelling of the words that you are using, you might prehaps try a less "letter-intensive workout"

And I have a suggestion of what you can do with those golden bones, should you stumble across any ... http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

On a lighter note how'd you get the little smiley faces at the end of your posts?


Technology is not one of my strong points, by rights I should be a caveman.

i put the semi colon ; and the right bracket ) in sequence one after the other
and got this http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

I think their point was, Terence, that in your rejection of the "bourgeois" concepts of good and evil, you were talking out of your rear end. And Ace and Donkey called you on it. I, myself, found your original good and evil lesson, and your comments thereafter, somewhat "pretentious".

Guys... guys... he just stated his opinion, is all. The, chosing of which ever path you want to follow is always depended on "hot and cold" concept. This is true of life itself, I know and understand why one would want to steer away from this concept but it is not possible. There is good and evil and there is life and death, you can never be neutral, the concept itself is false as being neutral, you are taking a position, hence you are not in perfect balance. Anyway, if one takes neutrality as a firm concept, one would understand that, if you are neutral to someone, you will be enemy to someone else and friend to someone else again. Kind of why the more complexe wording in BGII, where neutrality takes a whole new meaning, a more accurate meaning.

How dare you mock my keyboard dislexia... I feel so violated http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/triste.gif

How can you kill Edwin? He is one of the funniest characters in the game? Killing Edwin is like... like... like killing Tiax and Korgan! How can anyone kill any of them? They don't actually do anything evil and they're perfect sources of fun and hilarity.

Korgan funny? Eh? You give him this attribute? Jan, yes, but, Korgan? He's as funny as a Arnold being slowly dip into melting metal pot in T2.

I wasted Korgan. I didn't especially care if my rep went up or down. It was a somewhat evil act, sure. But the damn dwarf was leaving me (I've had enough of ye, so I'm sayin goodbye with a smile, etc.) in the middle of some important battles (guarded compound, especially). What a whiner. I killed him the next time he tried to leave, looted his corpse, and recruited Keldorn, and have never looked back.

Actually
Terence sounds a heck of a lot like a neutralhttp://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif
Dont believe in absolutes? Dont like the concepts of a good vs evil universe?
You're a neutral http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...les/tongue.gif

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Why?

Yes! Korgan's very funny. Especially in a party with oh, let's see...Aerie, Viconia, Nalia (especially Aerie...) Plus some of the things he says to villians is great (one statement he makes to Jon comes to mind.)

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a bunch of long hairs.
trux

Sorry but that still doesn't sound like Korgan at all. All he does with Aerie is put her down, all he does with Viconia is to pick a fight with her. He's nothing but a swine with a bad attitude and low neuronal brain count in my book. Again, if you want humor, Jan, yes, but Korgan? Eeehh...

Terence, there was I think a bit of backtracking in your last reply to me, but ok, I'm not getting into some heavy discussion of philosophical import. I would just say it does no favours to you to laugh at ace because he spelt a word wrong. You don't have to have an exceptional command of english to make a valid point.

Anyway, enough, for myself, I think Edwin is funny and by killing him your missing a lot of good lines (as well as the rather amusing sidequest). Korgan too is a good laugh and can make the game a riot.

Finally, I must say I like the name. I used to post as DonkeyWan the indifferent archer on the beer thread, and I appreciate the fact that in the world of power gamers its sometimes good to be a joe soap...

Tequila for all my friends.