Between the 2 of them - who is better at thieving, and who has the greater potential (at least, until Yoshi, ummm, y'know... http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif )

Potential wise, I'd say Yoshi as he is a pure thief. Jan however is also a mage, which to me is a substantial plus.

I use my thief almost exclusively for detecting and disarming traps, and lockpicking. With his gear Jan is better at this imho. I seldom pickpocket/steal, and I can't quite get the hang of backstabbing enemies.

So I guess my question should be rephrased as, "Would Jan be a good enough thief?" for my playing style.

One of his drawbacks is his 9 Str, but I suppose I can buy or find a girdle of strength to overcome this. Any ideas where I can find one?

I am also looking for potions of master thievery. Noy many merchants stock these. Are there any I can buy from?

Thanks.



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"Butt-kicking for goodness!" - Minsc
"Cities always teem with evil and decay. Let's give it a good shake and SEE WHAT FALLS OUT!!" - Minsc
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/wildlep...n/images/w.gif

Since Yoshimo is single class thief and Jan is multi class, the answer is pretty obvious if it is only thieving abilities you are concern about. Jan is more than enough for your detect/disarm traps and the occasional odd locks.
If you are looking for a girdle to enhance STR, check out Adventurers' Mart. As for potions....I usually find mine, don't think there are many places that sells these....(if any at all).... *sign*


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Long live H22A1!!!!!

Do you camp by your computer or something? Thanks for the fast response, Accord. http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

hayashi,
i found out that if you go to the various thief merchants who are scattered around... you can get invisibility and master thievery potions from them.

let's see, there's the girl to the right of the doors of the copper coronet, but closer to the houses on the right side of the screen. umar hills, outside of the inn, is a trio of thieves selling stuff, but i think they show up after you finish that quest.

they aren't hard to find and have a distint thief-like look. they are cowled and hang in the same place all the time.

oh yeah, if you kill thieves from the shadow thief consortium, they tend to have a few on their persons also.

V***V

Nah....just bad weather is keeping me indoors. http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif
Beside, I am on my quest to clean my room.

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Long live H22A1!!!!!

I've never really found a need for those Potions of Thievery Mastery.

But to the issue....YOSHIMO ALL THE WAY!!!

Despite what others say Yoshimo is the perfect thief character. And I'm not just talking about ability wise either, I'm also to referring to his little secret...*hint hint*

Total quintessential thief character. Jan is more comic relief. Towards the end Imoen proves good enough to get by with.

jan is the best thief in the game, by far. he's got the best equipment for it, and happens to be a mage on top of that. besides, yoshimo is a jack*ss.

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--
trux

Couldn't agree more Trux >>

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http://usa.venus.co.uk/weed/agifs/images72/gargman8.gif
Time is only relevant if you have none !

Same here. Go for Jan. Yoshi is a punk.

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IS THE PIZZA HERE YET????
WANNA PASS ME A BEER??? THANKS!!!!!!

Yoshimo's thieving skills go up faster than Jan's, but that doesn't make him a better thief. Jan has equipment that puts himself way ahead of Yoshimo, plus he's a mage, plus he isn't a *beep*, plus he isn't that annoying, plus he has some very funny dialogue like "You'll go far you know. Even further maybe, than Uncle Bifflechips. Though he was flung by a catapult, so I suppose I shouldn't count that."

Anyway, go with Jan.

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GameBanshee, where I shall be a moderator, one day... http://www.smilies.org/basesmilies/pape.gif

I was quite fond of Yosh as I found, since changing to Jan, that Yosh seened to detect traps a bit quicker than Jan, could just be me.http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...strosmiley.gif I too have not got the hang of backstabbing and would appreciate some pointers!

Cheers http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/hippy.gif

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Grrrrrrrrr!!! http://animationfactory.angelfire.co...ite_md_wht.gif

Jan..........

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http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/bald...w/tge_024l.JPG http://havak.db-forge.com/portraits/clcm80L.jpg

Hayashi and Simon

Backstabbing Clinic 101

There are 3 components to the Backstab, everyone knows one, but the other two are most likely to be preventing your success.

1. Be Hidden/Invisible

2. Have a weapon which is able to backstab (blades up to longsword, shortsword is the classic)

3. (This is the most often Missed) Be BEHIND the victim. His facing is not trivial. They don't call it "attack from shadows" they call it BACK-stab.

Remember some opponents cannot be backstabbed. They may not have a back (jellies, oozes) or may be too big for you to reach it (dragons)

Hope that helps


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"Yet still, it turns." - The TiltaWhirl attendant at Six Flags

[This message has been edited by alexwc4 (edited 05-25-2001).]

I was never impressed much by Yoshimo, Jan is fine by me and seems to level
up a lot faster, plus his crossbow is more of what I needed anyway.

jan is much cooler. he's funnier and he's got that whole turnip thing going for him and he makes neat stuff.

Why'd the people at the place that makes BG2 give jan funny colors?


Check jan out with mage robe.



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http://www.netexecutive.net/images/dragon.gif The Black Killer

yoshimo is the best thief in the game but jan is'nt a back stabbing lawyer (as the kid of liar liar say's it lol lol )
so i would have to go with neither !
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the monk has spoken now i shale return to my meditation until i speak again
peace out !

definately Yoshi( 95 lockpick, 100 find traps, 50 set traps, 80 hide in shadows, 75 move silently, backstab x4, 60 pickpocket, 87 hp )

Really, it depends on your playing style and who else you have in your party. Although I've used both, I rely very heavily on scouting/backstabbing, so I prefer Yoshimo. It's true that Jan could cast an Invisibility spell, but he'll eventually run out of them - Yoshi can hide in shadows as often as he likes. Really, I'd be happy with either one.

Jan doesnt need hide in shadows, he can cast invisibility so dont put any thing in hide in shadows until all others got a hundred.

EDIT-plus he can do extra thieving with knock. and his strength penalty can be fixed with the spell that gives str.
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http://www.netexecutive.net/images/dragon.gif The Black Killer

[This message has been edited by Shadow (edited 06-24-2001).]

Yoshimo is far and away the best thief in the game imho, personally i can't stand Jan and couldn't wait to abandon him in spellhold for eternity. Being multi classed he could never compete with Yoshimo as a thief, particularly later in the game. Yes Turnip brain is a mage as well but thats not the question, Yoshimo is the best thief.

Don't get bogged down into thinking that potions of invisibility and Master Thievery are the only potions available for a thief, there are a good few others.
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Potion of Master Thievery
STATISTICS:

Lock Picking: +40% bonus
Pick Pockets: +40% bonus
Duration: 3 hours
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Potion of Perception
STATISTICS:

Find/Remove traps: +20% bonus
Pick pockets: +20% bonus
Pick locks: +20% bonus
Hide in shadows: +20% bonus
Duration: 6 hours
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Potion of Power
STATISTICS:

THACO: Set to 80% of current base
Hit Points: +20% temporary (base only)
Hide in shadows: +20% (base only)
Pick pockets: +20% (base only)
Pick locks: +20% (base only)
Find/Remove traps: +20% (base only)
Duration: 4 turns
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Potion of Invisibility
For backstabbing once natural stealth becomes impossible.
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Potion of Speed
Useful if wearing the boots of Stealth rather than boots of speed. Increases attack rate and movement.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Potion of Mind Focusing
Dexterity is ultra important for a good thief, assuming you have 18+ already this potion can tip the balance in your thiefs favour.
STATISTICS:

Intelligence: +3 bonus
Dexterity: +3 bonus
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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It's bleedin dark down here, slippery too.
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/cwm/cwm/piss2.gif Man, that's a pisser. http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/cwm/cwm/piss.gif

There is an important point or two missing here. just being invisible/in shadows does not guarantee your thief will succesfully backstab his opponent.
You need points assigned to both Hide in Shadows and Move Silently. If you check back and see that your backstab attempt reads "Thief X attacks enemy X" then chances are that your backstabbing action has been heard/detected at the last second and your backstab has failed and has now become a standard attack, albeit from behind the intended victim. The more points you assign to Hide in Shadows and Move Silently the more chance you have of succesfully carrying out the backstab.

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It's bleedin dark down here, slippery too.
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/cwm/cwm/piss2.gif Man, that's a pisser. http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/cwm/cwm/piss.gif

IMO, Yoshimo is the best and only thief in the game: all others - multi- or dualclass - cannot compete with him.
I agree with Simon that Yoshi seems to detects traps faster than Jan (it's important to me, 'cause I do not like standing and waiting till Jan detect a trap or two).
Of course, Jan can cast spells but there is no shortage of spellcasters among NPCs...


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Tanda,
with best regards from Guild of Assassins

[This message has been edited by Tananda (edited 06-24-2001).]