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-   -   Kensai/Mages (http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53108)

Grand-Ranger 05-07-2001 01:53 PM

I hate them,it dosent make sence!!Even if it is the most powerful char in the game

think about it,A Kensai trains sooo much on battling with swords tobecome so good at it,so where dose have have time to learn spells?

and then flip it around

A mage has to spend hours upon hours to get his spells right he has to memorize every word too every spell,so where dose he have time to get soo good with the sword?

Leodrish 05-07-2001 02:08 PM

Yeh as I wrote in the "Evertone partisipate!" section.
They rock, but I admitt it's very strange.

Well, I played a halfelf Fighter/Thief in BGI and he was outstanding, not so great in BGII though, my favorite now is a human Kensai/Mage.
Started with a Kensai, let her reach tenth level, dualclassed to a Mage.
Equip her with Staff of Magi, Spear of Piersing and bracers of defence AC4.
Result:
Depending on memoriced spells.
Either:
A Mage with Incredible hitpoints, able to defendheself thanks to the kensai AC bonus and able to attack as well.
or:
An allmost invulnerable fighter thanks to stonskin, mantel, spellturning etc, with a few tricks up her arm, all from magic missile to disturb hostile mages to Khelbens warding whip to get through tuff defences.
Exellent character with no greater weaknesses i can discern.

Grand-Ranger 05-07-2001 02:55 PM

still dont make sence no matter how powerfull it is,if you people dont rember,this is a DND game,and DND is a RPING game,thus you are supouse to roll paly your chars even if it isnt required,and if you wear Rping the is no way you could be a Kensai/Mage

Throntar 05-07-2001 02:57 PM

Why not? That makes no sense... Explain.

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debiler 05-07-2001 04:24 PM

It depends. For pen & paper RPG´s, I would also play a char with reasonable abilities. But since BG2 is still a PC game and you´re supposed to have fun with it, there is no point why one should not take advantage of the possibilities offered. By the way, I´d never do this, myself cause there are ways to handle the game in other, more sincere ways(Swashbucklers and Jesters just rule).

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Grand-Ranger 05-07-2001 05:24 PM

Throntar,did you not read my first post?

and Debiler there is still ways you can have and still be realistic

Halbred 05-07-2001 08:28 PM

not eveyone who plays RPG games necessarily have the need to be immersed in the gaming environment/world that the rest of us to. i for one go for realism, and try to keep the game as believeable as possible. everyone has the right to theri playing style, no matter how bizarre or contradictory they may seem

Memnoch 05-08-2001 04:05 AM

The classic powergaming vs. roleplaying question. Have fun trying to figure it all out, fellas. http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

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Halbred 05-08-2001 04:33 AM

oh no memnoch is gonna start a debate with those words http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

Xod 05-08-2001 12:37 PM

The first time I played through, I used the coveted Kensai/Mage. Even with the exp. cap, they are way too powerful, depending on what level you dual-class them. I dual-classed at level 12. My Kensai/Mage was a real liability when she could only use a staff or dagger; it was also very challenging as well. But, as soon as she hit level 13 as a mage and regained her Kensai abilities, it was waaaaaay too easy. I usually left my party in a safe spot and cleared out entire areas myself.

As for the role-playing aspect, I think it is conceivable. You are the child of a god. Imoen managed to learn the mage arts in quick order, why not the PC as well? You grew up in Candlekeep, studying in one of the largest libraries in Faerun. I think that it is a stretch, but not out of the realm of possiblity.

ShadowUK 05-08-2001 01:58 PM

Kensi's are just plain boring even without duel classing them,
they just get way two powerfull 9as do monks) when they get to high levels........

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caleb 05-08-2001 02:05 PM

Its unrealistic to have a guy that fights with a sword and also cast spells but its IS realistic to have dragons, faeries, and pagan gods that give you the power to ressurect dead people? oooooooookay then.

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Bahamut 05-08-2001 02:08 PM

what memnoch said, powergaming over roleplaying. you choose. a party with korgan viconia and edwin, or a very comfy party but worthless? thats the whole point of this.

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250 05-08-2001 06:07 PM

you hate kensai/mage, so what? whats wrong with it? don't play it if you cannot come up with a good background

Grand-Ranger 05-08-2001 06:36 PM

caled,its DND,so yes in DND all that can happen,but there are still limts

and Xod,sure you can learn magic and weild a sword,even if you are a god child,you are still human (or dwarf or whatever).But it is not possible to become that good with a sword while still get up to 8 level mage spells,and of course Imoen did theifery and mage spells,that brings us back to the Rping aspect,she could just leanred theifing while being michivious,isnt that hard,you can learn magery while doing that no prob,but kensai to becoem good as they are,myust take hours upon hours and days,they woudlnt have time too to become mages,it takes just as much time to to become a mage

250 05-08-2001 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grand-Ranger:
caled,its DND,so yes in DND all that can happen,but there are still limts

and Xod,sure you can learn magic and weild a sword,even if you are a god child,you are still human (or dwarf or whatever).But it is not possible to become that good with a sword while still get up to 8 level mage spells,and of course Imoen did theifery and mage spells,that brings us back to the Rping aspect,she could just leanred theifing while being michivious,isnt that hard,you can learn magery while doing that no prob,but kensai to becoem good as they are,myust take hours upon hours and days,they woudlnt have time too to become mages,it takes just as much time to to become a mage


well, i am smart enough, whats up with that? I know all magic of any school, darkest arcane knowledge, mathematics, physics, Taoism, Buddism, Ying Yang Tai-Ki, Kung Fu, musical instrument, Vamperism, Hebru, Monglian, Hinduism, Ta-Kwan-Dao, Nine Ying Skeleton Hand, Eight Diagram, compuer science, astrology, arcitetchure... whats up???

TheDutkanator 05-08-2001 07:03 PM

Remember the term is "dual-class" not multi-class. You *DO* spend ALL of your time focusing on your skills as a kensai. Then, you stop and focus ALL your time on magic (or vice versa). Haven't you people ever heard of a mid-life crisis? How about a change of heart? What if you were forced to start as 1 class and finally overcame that and changed to another? There are a number of possibilities here and, though you could get an overpowering character, it is far from unrealistic to see a Kensai/mage! I love these guys! They are especially good for newbies, not to mention old pros their 1st (or 100th!) time through.

Does every single game you play have to be a challenge? Why not play a class you haven't done, or wouldn't normally do, and have them kick a little ass!

Too easy?! BAH!! Try using a kensai/mage with your difficulty turned all the way up. After you've tried this, then we'll talk about it being too easy.



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250 05-08-2001 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheDutkanator:
Remember the term is "dual-class" not multi-class. You *DO* spend ALL of your time focusing on your skills as a kensai. Then, you stop and focus ALL your time on magic (or vice versa). Haven't you people ever heard of a mid-life crisis? How about a change of heart? What if you were forced to start as 1 class and finally overcame that and changed to another? There are a number of possibilities here and, though you could get an overpowering character, it is far from unrealistic to see a Kensai/mage! I love these guys! They are especially good for newbies, not to mention old pros their 1st (or 100th!) time through.


exactly my point! mid life crisis. I have at least a dozen stories about how a kensai turned out to study magic

Zateel 05-14-2001 02:40 AM

If it's a big deal about a Kensai/Mage, then why not the unchallenged fighter/magic-user of D&D? Is it bad becuase it's better? The Kensai kit fits naturally with the mage more than any other class. In the "mid-life crisis", he is unconcerned about the lack of armor during his change, it is natural for him. A kensai is intelligent and detail oriented, perhaps focusing more on the vascular anatomy of his opponent than a reckless rage. Maybe more calculating about the position of the crucial last two inches of his katana as it arcs across the now dead enemy's throat than smashing a twenty pound hammer clumsily across a breastplate. His intensity is driven into himself and his timing between the opponents blows rather than at his opponent. A kensai is unlike the other fighters in this respect.

Perhaps the calling of magic tugged at him as his Kai pulled his awareness into the supernatural conciousness around him. Maybe he only yearned to enchant the *perfect* sword. It could be that as he became older, his experience taught him that some battles could not be won by sword alone. As he achieved insight, he might see the natural flow of physical and mental surge and wane, much as those who understand the concept of Yin and Yang might.

Anyway, I like my K/M, and I think it is every bit role-playing valid as an elven fighter/mage.

Cayle 05-14-2001 05:42 AM

I know at least three people in real life that have such an intense, driven personality. The first is a physicist. He was a statistical mechanics theorist for two decades and then changed disciplines to biological physics. He is also runs an experimental group now. This is akin to switching schools as a mage. The second finished her PhD in physics (biophysics) last year. She is now a software developer. The third (and the brother of the second) was also a physicist. Then he became a management consultant and now he is also a software developer. When he decided to become a management consultant, he spent ALL of his free time studying management and economics theory. Now he does the same with OOP.

What all of these people have is intensity and perfectionism. They all changed fields seeking new challenges and because they the professional limitations in their fields. So I could imagine a K/M from a roleplaying aspect.


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- Cayle

Aurum 05-14-2001 07:54 PM

They are good, I count with 2 in my party (Brute force).

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Staralfur 05-14-2001 08:47 PM

I've never used one myself, but I feel if you don't agree with something, just avoid it. BG2 is meant to be as varied as possible so that everyone can enjoy it, things are bound to be included that not everyone likes.
You don't have to play with a Kensai/Mage, but I'm sure a lot of other people like to. So what? I couldn't careless, I just want to get on with playing the game the way I like to.

TheDutkanator 05-14-2001 10:18 PM

In light of recent posts, does anyone care to disagree with the Kensai/Mage probability?

(How about a duel? lol!)

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Quote:

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Raif Gwydionson 05-14-2001 11:23 PM

I thought you couldn't dual class kits...


Methinks I'm way out of my league here... lol

Huaaa hahaha hooo heeh ha hooo!

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Hayashi 05-14-2001 11:26 PM

You can't dual into a kit, but you can dual from a kit.

So a kensai can be dualled to a mage, but a mage can only be dualled into a generic fighter, not a kensai.

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