SUPER GAME RUINING SPOILER!!! PLEASE USE YOU BACK BUTTON ON BROWSER NOW!!!
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DO NOT GO ANY FURTHER!!! I"VE WARNED YOU!!!/
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So here you are, despite headers, warnings in both topic and post, to read a "spoiler" about Throne of Bhaal which none have played (programmers aside). Someone gave a poor guy a hard time the other day for posting info the other day on a game that is not even out.. Archaeon I think. If you haven't played it, and you don't want to be spoiled, why are you reading? Tonight I read a post by Damark Ifrit, a new guy, and he labeled his post "After Hell". Now ANYONE who has made it past Hell knows about the stuff he brought up. Yet people were complaining that he was "spoiling" them. Here's a big hint to all reading about spoilers. IF YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE TOPIC IS ABOUT, IT IS LIKELY TO COME UP LATER IN THE GAME AND YOU WILL POSSIBLY KNOW THE SOLUTION IF YOU CLICK ON THE TOPIC AND READ IT AT THIS TIME! If you think the title "After Hell" is a spoiler in itself, reavealing that there is indeed a "Hell", what about the "Fiirkrag" and "Underdark" posts? You mean there is an Underdark? Damn, I'm spoiled now!

This is a game forum, one that I found with a search engine ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR ANSWERS. And are the answers ever here! I can appreciate the concern about spoilers in titles, and when revealed off topic further down the post, but it's getting to be like:
SPOILER
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Aeire is a cleric/mage. or

SPOILER:
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The new game is in a green box, and *you* are still the main character


I mean, what is the point? I've been spoiled myself at times, but it's because I've poked my head where I shouldn't have, not because I'm reading someones post about a completely unfamiliar topic and HOW DARE THEY not give me a warning in the title of the post that someone else might reply to their question which possibly could reveal the answer to the question asked in the
title of the post!

If the post is called "where are the gauntlets of..." then one should expect that when they read the post, the answer WILL PROBABLY BE REVEALED.

Okay, end of my rant. And now for the apologies. I'm not attacking anyone personally on the board, nay I have the highest respect for all of you (except one, who I won't mention). And to Memnoch especially, I have deep admiration of your moderatorship, and think you are doing great! I do not intend this to be a counter or rebuttal of your recent reminder of spoiler posts, nor do I encourage anyone to spoil others. I merely imply that the readers should take responsibility for spoiling themselves when viewing a topic. Aside from the impending attacks/ defenses that shall be hurled at me, do any others have a similar opinion(keeping you reading to what you know if you don't want to know)?

POINT!!

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Long live H22A1!!!!!

Of course people should take responsibility for what posts they go into Zateel, I’m not disagreeing with you at all there. Conversely, people should also be careful with the way they title their posts so that what they are talking about is as clear as possible, to avoid accidentally misleading people.

For example, your title above just begs to be clicked on, because you have not been at all specific in what you are posting about. If, on the other hand, you had posted something like “SPOILER about the identity of the new ToB NPC”, then people who want to know can click, and people who don’t want to know but click anyway will have to take responsibility for their being spoiled. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif

PS – Please don’t reveal the identity of the new ToB NPC if you are one of the few who know. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif


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http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/genwalk.gif http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/memnoch/memname.GIF



[This message has been edited by Memnoch (edited 04-10-2001).]

I sooooo want to flame you Zaetle but out of respect for Ironworks rules I won't. I'd suggest matter how much you want to break those spoiler rules you keep the Ironworks policy too.

The majority of us know full well the line which you are trying to blur. "Aerie is a cleric/mage" is not a spoil. You can read the manual and get that information! Detailing what happens to her is. Also your topic was plainly and obviously a wisarse attempt at being smart.

Why be a wise guy? No one likes a spoiler.


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O.K..... what do I do now? Goo goo goo choo?
http://www.animfactory.com/animation...ing_lg_clr.gif

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!



[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 04-10-2001).]

when you say "new NPC" do you mean.. naw i won't say it your right i was pissed at finding out early so i wont spoil it for others




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http://website.lineone.net/~mark.langridge/MNO3A3.gif
Bruce The Aussie, Camp Barbarian Hunter OHF
jester of LH and Master Beastmaster of the clan of the Kats

Zateel, I would like to present you one advice: If you do not want to spoil your game then do not join any forums at all and do not search for any information on the internet. Learn everything the hard way. Also, initiate the new "Oracle" discussion groups. The only allowed types of posts in the "Oracles" will be:

Aerie is ... sipmly Aerie.
The game is sold ... yes, it is, finally.

Why I am so rude. Because I am reading these frightened posts again and again and I must disagree with all of them. The forums are there to allow exchange of INFORMATION. If I search a forum then I search an answer, not for an oracle. Does the answer spoil anything? Does the additional information (about things I meet later in the game, for example) spoil anything? I think it does not. First and foremost, I get an opinion of another person with another play style and another preferences. In most cases, I shall not copy the advice - I shall use it to develop my own solution that suits me best. The advice does not prevent me from searching different solutions. If the advice contains the only way of doing something, then it only saves my time and frustration.
The information about later events cannot spoil anything as well. Well, it helps to develop a strategy. But are we so imbecile that we are unable to search our own ways through the game and that the only way available to us is the one recommended by someone else? If we are so imbecile then we should not play RPGs. I daresay that we are not imbecile at all - because we are able to play such type of games. Therefore, the information about later events speeds up the first pass through the game. Next passes will follow. And we shall play better than during the first pass.
Therefore, don't be afraid of information on the forums. Accept it and use it for finding your own ways through the game.

The only way to get into trouble with the "big guys" is to deliberatley spoil without the concern for others.
If you did not get to see the battle with Mr. Smith, I will tell you what happened to him. Many people were not online at the time and would also like to know. This guy posts a game secret as the title of his post. Even if you were a new kid on the block that had vowed never to read the posts marked ..."spoil ahead", you could not miss it. Now, if you were not far enough into the game to have reached that point yet, you may be very upset to know the very thing Mr. Smith posted as clear as day. Then, to make it worse, if you clicked on his post to read more about what he was saying, all you found was (hahahahahahahaha), repeated a thousand times.
Do you see the difference in a deliberate spoil and what you are talking about? Just play by the rules, and we will all be fine. Nobody is going to rant about it. Just label your stuff S.P.O.I.L. in front of delicate material, and we will all be happy.

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http://www.dewa.com/animated/7.gif
Larry, Sell-Sword to the OHF

Personally I'd rather someone put SPOILER in as a precautionary measure than not put it in as they think it's unrequired. So far I've had a large part of BG2 ruined through the lack of a simple 7 letter word and I now know more than enough about ToB, completely spoiled before the games even been released. If a poster is unsure if he/she is, or may be spoiling then it's best to err on the side of caution and let the viewer decide whether to continue reading a post or not.

No one is going to miss an important point that may help them by not reading a post. They only need to pose their own specific question and as everyone knows, it will get answered.

My opinion.

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One love, peace.

Memnoch, thanks for your reply. I don't intend to spoil anyone, nor do I know about the NPC. (There's a new NPC? Now I know! Dang it...)the title does beg to be clicked. That is my point exactly about reading where one knows he shouldn't. Spoiling in the post title is intolerable. No one can "choose" not to see that information. They can choose to see what is in the post. Whether the post goes off topic into a spoiler is a whole other matter.


Alas poor Yorick, I have no quarrel with you. I have not spoiled anyone on this board, nor do I ever intend to. Archaeon was "flamed" before he had a chance to apologise or remove his post. Not everyone stays connected to their ISP logged into the forum 24/7. He probably had to go to work or school and removed the post ASAP. I won't break Ironworks rules intentionally (lawful-good, and all that). What bothers me is that it seems people *enjoy* flaming others. If it makes you feel better, go ahead.


Radek, I think you share my thoughts on this matter more than you realize. Reading these same posts you refer to has prompted me to post this message, putting my name/neck on the block in the process. I come to the forum EXPECTING to find information, or at least hoping. If one isn't looking, why is one reading? You have an excellent point, although my reading of your reply makes me think you have misunderstood mine.



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and the flaming sword turning every way, guards the tree of life.

Fair enough Zateel http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif

Radek, when I came to the forum it was as a last resort to get some hints about specific problems I'd encountered, not information about plot developments I would come across naturally. Not everyone shares your mindset. People posting respectfully and with the correct spoiler title doesn't affect your gamer, but when people don't it does affect a lot of peoples games.

Sort of like smoking. A non smoker doesn't affect the air of a smoker when he breathes, but a smoker affects a non smoker if he smokes. That's why we have non smoking areas. Well, this is a non spoil area.



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O.K..... what do I do now? Goo goo goo choo?
http://www.animfactory.com/animation...ing_lg_clr.gif

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

You know...it's obviously no secret that there is a new NPC being introduced in ToB. However, why is everyone so sure of the identity of that new NPC? I happened to be on the Black Isle ToB forum when this whole thing broke. I think that people who "know" the identity of the new NPC are going to look like a bunch of a$$holes when the game releases. I don't believe for a minute that the new NPC is the person who has been tagged as being it.

Yes...ok...one of the developers did answer, "Yes.", when asked a very direct question as to the identity of the new NPC. However, the developers on that board screw with the member's heads ruthlessly. They seem to take a perverse joy in allowing speculation to brew and then stirring it up even more.

I honestly don't believe that the identity has been correctly revealed. IMHO.http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...es/biggrin.gif

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My *God* man...would you *please* eat something!?

Memnoch, you change your signiture ALL the time (Metaphor) don't you????

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Visit Now</A> or Starstryke will Stryke U!

Very, very interesting !

"Dr. Livingstone I presume"



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Time is only relevant if you have none !

Yorick,
could you specify the difference between "specific problems I'd encountered" and "plot developments I would come across naturally"? I daresay that every specific problem you'd encountered is a plot development you would come across naturally. So, what's the difference between your smoking and non-smoking areas? Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Zateel,
my appologies. I read your post too fast. This was caused by the fact that I get crazy whenever I see "spoiler ahead", etc. The discussion is about whether information can spoil anything. I disagree. Information cannot spoil anything. It's a contradiction. Information can only speed up the development of our own game strategies and tactics. But that's WE who develop them - not the informators. Does it matter whether I know that there is a new NPC in ToB? Does it matter whether I know exactly its abilities? It does not because it's ME who decides what to do with it. Similarly, it's me who decides what to do with any information.
My offensive answer should have been directed elsewhere.

This is not a spoiler since I am just guessing but I will move my prediction down enough in case you dont want to see it
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I think the new npc is a Harpell because the new kit is a wild mage and that certainly is a Harpell trait and because for people to get excited about it would take a already known character and not a original one.

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RULE #1:I am always right
RULE #2:See rule #1

Radek, I hope you're not directing your offensive answer to my request that information which reveals plot twists, locations of weapons etc that you would have otherwise learned through the course of the game be marked with a SPOILER tag.

A spoiler is something that reveals information about a plot twist or the location of some object/character/hidden place. Spoilers are by their nature subjective - you will need to use your judgment to determine what these are.

A lot of people get on these boards to talk about general game issues, such as "What is the best party for whatever" or "Should I drop whoever from my group?". These types of posts usually don't require spoiler tags as they are general information.

Other people might have specific game questions like "How do i get past so-and-so" or "Where is such-and-such". These would be considered posts requesting spoiler information. Some are obviously bigger spoilers than others.

There are also posts which refer to specific plot twists in BG2. A lot of people who come here do NOT know about certain plot twists which the rest of us might take for granted. Unmarked spoilers about these detract from these people's gaming experience. The majority of people don't like finding out about a plot twist before they were meant to.

As a COURTESY to other board members who may not have gotten as far in the game as you have, please abide by the following when requesting or revealing spoiler information:

1. Do NOT reveal the spoiler in your title.
2. Put a SPOILER tag in the title so people know you will be revealing spoiler information.
3. Put spoiler spaces just before the part where you are revealing the information.

You are entitled to your belief that information doesn't spoil, and helps you improve your game. However, other people are also entitled to their beliefs that such information DOES spoil - hence the courtesy of marking such information as SPOILERS.

You're more than welcome to read ahead when you see posts marked as spoilers - to you they're not spoilers. For other people they may be - respect their rights by letting them know.



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Hey! I spoiled myself by reading Gamespot's review! I'm not telling... but that does sound, err... interesting.

I guess when I stuck this post up I was wondering if there were ANY like-minded people out there, and I see the entire spectrum represented.

My apologies go out mostly to Memnoch, for making him type so much, trying to keep this forum to the standards members expect. Sort of reminds me of that thread where someone mentions casting a pit fiend in the govenment hall- that's not what I meant to do. Thanks all, for your input.

I'll let you in on a little secret - that's my spoiler speech, I just cut and pasted it. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif

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Silk/Ambar,
A specific problem would be - "where are all the wands to unlock the traps in Irenicus Dungeon".
A plot development I'd come across naturally would be - still in Irenicus dungeon: being backstabbed by the doppleganger, coming across the Vampire or Yoshimo, or finding out the fate of Khalid. All these have nothing to do with the specific problem of where the wands are, so their knowlege would spoil that natural development.

This is obvious isn't it? You're just being a smart---- right?


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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... http://www.animfactory.com/animation...ing_lg_clr.gif

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!