Pierce magic is supposed to lower an enemy's Magic Resistance by 1% per level of the caster. (It's a lesser version of pierce shield)
But when i used it on a clay golem, no MR was deducted ....
Is this a bug ?

I allready checked Baldurdash, they dont have any such bug reported, neither are clay golems immune to any spell-level, so ...
what's wrong ??

Plz, some advice :*(

In general, spells have no effect upon golems; this includes spells that might normally reduce magic resistance. When you see golems and they become hostile, simply gang up on them and physically defeat them.

i dont know about azred's golems, but ive taken out adamantite golems with sequenced lower resistances and magic missiles. there is no way to deny magic resistance lowering spells; they would be pointless if there were. the only thing that stops them is a spell shield, which golems, of course, do not have. i have no idea why your clay golems are resisting it.

however... if you are casting Pierce Magic from the Wand of Spell Striking i CAN tell you why it isn't working. an item has two ways of "casting" a spell depending on how the designers worked it: you can "cast spell as mage/cleric" such as how Daystar casts Sunfire or you can just duplicate the effects as is done with the Wand of Fire. the problem arises specifically with ranged magical attacks as there is a "damage type" parameter and for most things ranged, including weapons, this gets set as "piercing" so anything immune to piercing "damage" would also be immune to a magical effect using this parameter.

Question... did a gray sphere appear on the Golem when you casted the spell? If you did, then fret not, the Golem's MR did go down.

Strangely enough, the battletext does not list the effect for both Pierce Magic/Shield spells.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:

Strangely enough, the battletext does not list the effect for both Pierce Magic/Shield spells.<hr></blockquote>


???????? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: ??????

That must b a bug in ur game.... it certainly tells me how much the targets magic resistance is lowered by....

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Glorfindel:
???????? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: ??????
That must b a bug in ur game.... it certainly tells me how much the targets magic resistance is lowered by....<hr></blockquote>

Sorry, I should have clarified. This only occurs on certain creatures.

The rule of thumb is, so long as you see the gray sphere, all is well.

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If you cast Pierce Shield on Demogorgan, there is no battletext, but his MR is lowered. Same applies to the Ravager. I am unsure about Golems, since I usually use Lower Resistance, but it may apply to them as well.

I'm curious if the infinity engine treats magic immunity and magic resistance differently. I'll have to check the old Monster Manual when I get home to verify, but I believe clay golems are actually immune to magic. This implies there is no resistance to lower, it just doesn't affect them at all, period. I do know they are traditionally the toughest of the golems, because very few things can hurt them (only blunt magical items +2 or better iirc) and they can haste themselves. In BG2, Iron and Adamantite Golems are bigger, with more hp, but clay golems in good old PnP AD&D are very, very nasty.

Of course, it could just be a bug....now where did I put those 2e books anyway?

First post here too btw...nice board, with a pleasant lack of Trolls [img]smile.gif[/img]

-sb

I have killed clay golems mutiple times through Lower resistance/ pierce sheild then offensive magic, so it must b a bug 4 u, or anotha good bug 4 me :D

O and by the way.... Welcome to IW StrangeGlove [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]
[img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Glorfindel ]</p>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by strangelove:
I'm curious if the infinity engine treats magic immunity and magic resistance differently. I'll have to check the old Monster Manual when I get home to verify, but I believe clay golems are actually immune to magic. This implies there is no resistance to lower, it just doesn't affect them at all, period. I do know they are traditionally the toughest of the golems, because very few things can hurt them (only blunt magical items +2 or better iirc) and they can haste themselves. In BG2, Iron and Adamantite Golems are bigger, with more hp, but clay golems in good old PnP AD&D are very, very nasty.
-sb<hr></blockquote>

I can tell you that IE does in fact treat MR and Magic Immunity differently. MR is given as a percentage and is stored as a creature statistic, while Magic immunity is applied as a permanent spell effect onto a creature with a parameter setting the level of spell to be immune to. For example, Liches have 5 effects making them immune to spell levels 1 to 5. TO be honest I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think Clay Golems only have magic resistance. I'd have to check when I get home.
How do you know his MR wasn't lowered anyway? Maybe you lowered it to 80% and he still resisted your spell (very likely).
The only way you could check in-game is to press ctrl+q on him when cheats are enabled and get him into your party and check his stats.
Pierce Magic should ignore MR and I doubt there is a bug in your game because then others would have found this bug long before (remember the game has been out for nearly 1.5 years.)

Well, since others have killed Clay Golems this way, then in BG2, it would appear you can, though this is technically not correct by the book. We are of course playing by Bioware's house rules, and any engine limitations, though. *shrug* PnP AD&D knowledge is only so useful in a CRPG.

Having just read the section in the monster manual, and anything I could find in the old DM guide, this is what I came up with...

Clay golems (and golems in general) do not possess magic resistance, they are immune to it with special exceptions. Scraping the mold of the DM part of my brain (it's been quite a few years), that means the resistance is fixed, and not lowerable. There simply isn't a percentage to be lowered.

from the first edition Monster Manual:

"Clay golems can be struck only by blunt magical weapons such as hammers or maces. Other weapons do not affect them. Spells do not affect it, except as follows: move earth will drive the golem back 12" and inflicts 3-36 hit points of damage, disintegrate will slow the golem 50% and inflicts 1-12 points of damage, and an earthquake cast directly at a clay golem will stop it from moving that turn and inflict 5-50 hit points of damage."

So, if you want to play by those rules, don't use lower resistance even if it works in BG2. If you don't care about being an absolute stickler for the original AD&D ruleset, then have it. AD&D is flexible, if nothing else. It's entirely possible the engine simply can't be that specific with different monsters and spells, so in BG2 it just gets a very high resistance. I usually just have the party break out the good blunt weapons and crush the blighters.

Actually, I just killed a couple of clay golems in my current playthrough last night. I wonder if I have a good save game right before...it might be fun to test the disintigrate spell and see if it has the special effect on the golem specified in the MM, just out of curiosity. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it did actually slow the golem and cause the damage specified. The game constantly surprises me with how much of the incredibly complex ruleset it does manage to follow, while remaining fast playing and fun.

-sb

Trust me, it doesn't have that effect- I have looked at both the .cre files for Clay Golem and spell file for Disintegrate. The engine is very well designed you are right. It WOULD be possible to do something similar to proper AD&D rules, but it would take a very long time...you could make him immune to all spells, have 0 MR and have a script that detects when disintegrate is cast and then apply a custom spell that causes that damage and slows him etc. Too much hassle.
I looked at the CRE file, golcla01.cre
They are immune to poison, cold, electricity and have 50% fire resistance and 100% mag. res. and immunity to slashing,missile, piercing and non-enchanted weapons as you probably knew.