I just did a brief reserch, and the result was not very satisfactory, however, I feel like some of us should know it nonetheless.

I had always questioned the history and start of wizards, the magic practioners. How have those figures came to life in cultures all over the world? I had guess of my own, yet, when I was reading up texts on internet (which is not a good resouce to look for information) I tried to be objective as much as I could.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything about wizards. I did find things regard witches, who were DEEMED to exercise supernatual power. They were assumed to be devil servents and worshipers (http://www.vampyra.com/children/witches.htm) Witch came from english word wicca or wicce, they generally indicate people who believed an ancient god of earth and natual. however, they also meant wise woman, wise old wife and such.

some scholars believed witchs were the survivers of ancient folk relegion. It had been existing for a very long time. When Christian churches began to gain their pwoer, they started to pesecute people who practiced other religions, and those witchs were regarded as servents to devils.

I also looked into myth encycolpedia, I typed in the key word wizard, and it gave me some of the related words to wizard. here are couple of them:

Wicahmunga: A wizard or a male evil doer.

Koszcey: In Russian folklore Koszcey is a cruel wizard, a loathsome old man who dwells in his castle on the edge of the world. Koszcey in truth is not immortal, he can be killed, but to do so one should find Koszcey's death and that is quite difficult.

Incubus: In medieval European folklore, the incubus is a male demon (or evil spirit) who visits women in their sleep to lie with them in ghostly sexual intercourse. The woman who falls victim to an incubus will not awaken, although may experience it in a dream. Should she get pregnant the child will grow inside her as any normal child, except that it will possess supernatural capabilities. Usually the child grows into a person of evil intent or a powerful wizard. Legend has it that the magician Merlin was the result of the union of an incubus and a nun. A succubus is the female variety, and she concentrates herself on men. According to one legend, the incubus and the succubus were fallen angels.

Koshchei: A symbol of death and magic in Russian mythology, Koshchei the Deathless (also Kashchej) is a powerful wizard or demigod who gains immortality by keeping his fiery soul hidden inside an egg. The egg is inside a duck, which is inside a hare, which is inside an iron chest, which is buried under a green oak tree, which is located on the island of Bujan on the wide ocean.

An interesting note is, wherever wizard is mentioned, he is always related to death, evil, demon, which showed common people's fear, and to certain degree, respect, towards myths and unknow things. After reading many many articles, I admit I became confused, and I couldn't make out where this research is leading to. However, I did understand that, wizard, this mythterous figure, resembles sense of control, knowledge and wisdom. It is also a metaphor symbolizes humans outwit devils, outwit death. It was the fear and the confusion to those unknown phenomenas, such as death, disastour, illness, etc, led all the cultures at the same time, to create someone who could understand, or someone who comon people believed would understand. This in turn, brought them a sense of security.

One thing to point out though, the western wizards and eastern "wizards" had different methods of achieving their goals. I would call eastern wizards a cleric of some sort or a sorcerer, by AD&D standard. The eastern "mythtical figures" resembled more to socerers and clerics than wizards.

sigh... sorry about bunches of nonesense http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif well, I am really tired and confused, and my great commanding of english is not helping, please forgive my poor writing. If it is worths a laugh, then do so.

FABULOUS BUMP!

On the contrary, your take on this is pretty interesting. It still proves a commonly believed point that wizards, real wizards with fireballs and lightning bolts have never existed in any culture. As you said, Wizards were linked to mystery and the unexplained. Most stories in which men were said to wield magical powers are probably just different takes on a purely scientific discovery made by a commoner or an uneducated person, who were the most likely people in the period (say 13th to 15th century) to pass on a story by word of mouth.
Magic has always been used as an explaination to something that cannot be readily understood or explained by a common man. Are people like David Copperfield true magicians? No. Everyone knows that. They do not claim to be magicians or wizards. They are Illusionists(not the AD&D kind), they use trickery and guile to produce an effect that cannot be logically explained by the average human being watching it being performed, and call it magic.
Can we explain the human in two pieces trick? The one where a saw goes through a man and he comes out unscathed? No. Do we really believe that the saw went through the man? No. But can we firmly, without a trace of reasonable doubt say that it did not? No.
Same for a soldier on an ancient battlefield(many were superstitious by the way, and that would have helped tales and stories of feats on the battlefield evolve into tales of magic and the unexplained). Say a Japanese Samurai, who often served as guards for Shogunn or warlords. To them, and to many soldiers, Ninja were said to have supernatural powers. Were they really able to walk on water or disappear into thin air? No. Say to a Chinese Soldier on a battlefield, where the enemy uses inciendiary devices (they did exist, Greek Fire was believed to have been an early version of Napalm, but till today nobody knows the true composition of it, and it would have been a legendary weapon with links in magic in it's own era). Say if that same Soldier saw planes and nuclear bombs and machine guns. Would he have any explaination for them BUT magical fireballs and invisible arrows?

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well said.

heh heh heh, I do believe some people with supernatual powers. serious, there are stil a lot unknown to us, and those are what superpowers are.

like the thing "ki", it is so real that you have to believe it. but has any scientist successfully explained what "ki" is? what property does it have? no one. then another question comes to mind, if this "ki" thing is real, who developed it? or, who brought it to acient china? since people weren't evolved as much as today, they couldn't possibly invent a method. (like BGII, how the hell does a monk gain quivering palm after he woke up??)

Some myths are more like tales, while some are real. that is what I always believed.

btw, thx for taking time reading. heh

250 Have you read Joesph Campbell's "The Power of Myth"? You would probably find it most interesting. It is available on VHS as well.

Joesph Campbell was John Lucas's Myth advisor for Star Wars. He basically talks about were Myth (all types) comes from and how it is created. He goes further to expalin the power Myth has on people and how much we rely on it in everyday lives. Very interesting. Been awhile since I saw the video though.

Domer

interesting, thanks a lot. maybe i will look at star wars from a higher perspective from now on http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...es/biggrin.gif hah

Um. I'm pretty interested in Mythology myself. I think if you read up on the Norse God, Odin, you will find he is a pretty close approximation to the idea of a Wizard. Not a particularly nice wizard, but not all that evil either....

However: I think our current AD&D type wizards are our own MODERN mythology, and as such we should just enjoy 'em! http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif
F.

of course, they are good wizard as well, which symbolizes good triumph evil, http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...es/biggrin.gif
about Odin, he is a wizard??? i thought Odin is god

bump

It is said that those highly trained in the martial arts can harness the chi
to a great extent. It has been said that it can become very centralized and focused outward at aonther individual. The grand masters are believed to be able to cause a "death touch". The concentration of the chi energy actually disrupts the flow of electrical impulses near the heart in this case. This would indeed seem like some of the death spells in the BGII game.

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Balance

that is just part of chi's properties. and there are also a lot a mazing feats. (yes, not illusions)

Let me tell you a story.

Bakc in Chin dynasty. In the captial of China, Beking. There was a local meat merchant. The merchant was so greedy that every sale he made, he cheated on his customer. An old monk (he actually had a name, and he was famous, but I really forgot, and I dont want to put on a fake name, anyway) heard about this merchant, so he decided to gave this greedy meat merchant a lesson. Then he went to where the guys' store was located. When he went there, he saw a pound of meat on the store's desk, so he went there, and grabbed the meat and ate it all. The merchant was angry, he yelled:" HEY!!! what the hell you doing? you eat my meat, now you have to pay!" This caused a lot of people to came close and watch, so the monk said:" well, you said I ate your meat, how much did I eat?" the merchant said:" you eat about two pounds." The old monk smiled and told him: "then weight me, see how heavy I am." the confused merchant did as the monk said, and the monk weighted less than one pound! Everyone was amazed, but they also got the message, the monk just told them this merchant always cheat. and the story goes on...

anyway, the story itself was too much to believe, however, in old china, there were people who could control the flow of chi, and make themselves lighter than they actually were. The powerful masters could even levitate themselves. And the story is an exaggerated leviation version told by old chinese for the purpose of "good triumph over evil"

we could always see people's many kinds of emotions related to all the myths through out the world. They expressed their fear, anger, love, peace, desire, happiness and many many things with myth, which brought them the sense of security, like the tale i said, the good can always outwit evil. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by 250 (edited 03-15-2001).]

First I'd like to state that this is my opinion, not the final word on this subject, and I'd like it if someone can give me a different take on this.
While Qi, Ki, or Chi (same thing, same pronounciation) can not be readily explained, most people agree that it is a form of inner force/life force and can be harnessed by conditioning your body to it. This is the force that martial artists use to break blocks, this is the force that enables men to have bricks smashed over themselves while lying on blocks of needles. If you ask any martial artist who is serious in his craft, they will tell you that the feat of breaking blocks is done by mental preparation and conditioning your mind to harness the force and break the block FIRST, rather than superhuman strength or technique.
This force, in my opinion, allows men to perform feats that are not readily explained, it allows men to tap into this potential that most do not know is there, and can thus be almost magical in nature. Maybe it involved getting into a different, more condusive state of mind (anyone heard of the Alpha/Beta/Gamma stages of your conciousness? Please tell me if you have, my memory of it is not very clear) to use the other 70% of your brain that remains dormant in your life.
About death touches, or Qi harnessed to harm coupled with technique or skill, I do believe that it is possible to strike a blow that will kill or render a man unconcious instantly. It is logical that since our bodies need constant pumpings of blood to keep our organs functioning, striking an area to stop this flow of blood even for a milisecond could produce such effects.
On a personal note, there was a time when I was in school, and there was this trick going around. A person would ask you to close your eyes and do something with your hands, like cross them on your chest or something, I do not remember, and they would touch a part or strike a blow and the person would just blackout. It was not like a solid punch to the head or a jab in the family jewels, but a touch in a certain area and the person would just fold.
Scary no?

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I believed, most people who perform break blocks and have hammers smash on the huge rock upon his chest is not real. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif

the former, people can break some fake rocks. the later, it involved physics. It had something to do with an object's momentum. I never seen, or heard people got smacked by a hammer and still stay concious. (of course, there are people use other object, like a stick, or bat, but much weaker to a degree.)

what people do was, lay on the ground (or needles, whatever you prefer) and put a huge block of rock on his chest, then another man use a very scary looking hammer and smack down. then the rock breaks, and the man stand up, and look fine.

in physics, there is a law, that the momentum maintains constant. so the man with the hammer smack down and hit the rock, the two object as a system, has a total momentum of the hammer. momentum equals to speed times weight (which is very small in this case of the hammer), and also, lighter object tend to have higher energy, therefore, there were actually little energy pass on to the rock, so the man beneath could stay alive.

lol, if you do it otherwise, like, put a hammer on the man, and smack him with a huge rock, see if he can stay alive.

and yes, I believe the thing "qi" can kill and do a lot of amazing things. heh, life time, how much chinese are you?

Skin calleses are a wonderfull thing. People who brake rocks with there fists first learn to build up very solid, strong hands. Also the hand is far stronger than it appears. All the little bones serve to disperce energy much better than the rest of the body, like the bones of the head do as well. Mentaly you still have to work up the courage in your mind to strike the bricks. And after a few years of practice (sometimes a lifetime), you learn how to focus your arm and fist into one whoolp of a punch. I've seen it too many times not to believe it.

If you hit someone at a point around the heart (not that I know exactly how), with enough force you will stop the heart, sending it into an arrest. Every now and then you hear on the news about someone killed playing baceball, or hockey. They get struck in the chest, around the heart, with the ball or puck, at a very high rate of speed, and drop dead. It's weired but it's real.

A wizard is someone, anyone who can do stuff that bends reality, or goes aggenst the laws of nature. Any time in our history that someone has had unexplained powers it's linked to socery or deamon magic. Were just better at figureing out stuff now so very little is linked to "black magic voodoo". D&D mages are just complantions of various historical figures, myths, gods, etc. Zeus tossed lightning and fire, Oden used socery, Merlin was a wise old druid with the powers of divination and could walk the deamon world, bla bla bla.

So witches, worlocks, mages, wizards, etc are all a product of years of myth and folklore. I would have it no other way. Though wouldn't it be nice to really be able to teleport and fireball that annoying neighbor?

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--Kellin da Mage--

100% friend.
Not traditional Chinese though. I prefer being a child of the world. heh http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif

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