Minor "spoiler"
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! Good parties aint gonna need anomen cause Aerie! SHE ROCKS!!!!!!!!!! At lvl 13/14 she kicks ass esp.w/spell sequencer (scroll, not memorize)!!! I ONLY have her as cleric (as well as Jah but im considering changing Nalia, Jaheira, Keldorn, Yoshi 4 Valygar (im fighter/mage multi so I want him 4 planar sphere quest.)

You've only just realised this?

Aerie Forever :D

But if ur evil Edwin and Viconia are much betta as individuals... :D
Othawise Yeh Shes almost a necessity 4 a great Good team.. :D

My Newest "Good" team:
ME (Elven Barbarian)
Valygar
Jaheira
Keldorn
Aerie
Jan (slight Exception.. but he b betta Mage/theif than Imoen :D )

And if u give her the Robe of Vecna she is SUPER good :D .... supa quick Mage AND priest spells :D

[ 01-14-2002: Message edited by: Glorfindel ]</p>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by D*Ranged:
Minor "spoiler"
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! Good parties aint gonna need anomen cause Aerie! SHE ROCKS!!!!!!!!!! At lvl 13/14 she kicks ass esp.w/spell sequencer (scroll, not memorize)!!! I ONLY have her as cleric (as well as Jah but im considering changing Nalia, Jaheira, Keldorn, Yoshi 4 Valygar (im fighter/mage multi so I want him 4 planar sphere quest.)<hr></blockquote>


can I do the planar sphere questy without Valygar in my party? cos im playing with my own party, and there is no space.

[ 01-14-2002: Message edited by: Radiant_Memphit ]</p>

Spoiler
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
When you go to the cabin to get Valygar you have the option of fighting him. When you kill him and take his body to the sphere it will open. Just don't take the body to the wizards and you will be fine.

Ive neva given them Valygars body... so can u give it 2 tolgerias.... get the reward... then kill him and get Valygars body back.... or how about opening the sphere then taking him 2 the Cowled one's???? [img]tongue.gif[/img] ... I just thought of that :D

Just take Valygar alive or dead to the sphere and you can open it. You don't have to take him in. So you can bring him alive, open it, and then remove him, and pick up whoever you dropped to get him.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Radiant_Memphit:



can I do the planar sphere questy without Valygar in my party? cos im playing with my own party, and there is no space.

[ 01-14-2002: Message edited by: Radiant_Memphit ]<hr></blockquote>

If by your own party, you mean a 6 person multi player, then no you can not ask Vaygar to join and then dump him because the guy you kick out of your party will not rejoin you. "Blank has nothing to say to you...."

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dayquil:
Just take Valygar alive or dead to the sphere and you can open it. You don't have to take him in. So you can bring him alive, open it, and then remove him, and pick up whoever you dropped to get him.<hr></blockquote>

I know u dont have 2 take him in... but wat I was wondering was if ne1 had tryed opening the sphere then taking Valygar/Valygar's body back to Tolgerias for the reward.... that way u get the reward and stuff from the sphere :D

Aerie's OK, but rocks...come on. Now Viconia (who is now at level 17 in my party)...she rocks. Aerie doesn't have half the power Imoen does as a mage, nor that Viconia does as a cleric. Jahiera is also better than her, in my opinion, because Jaheira can actually get into combat and do some damage, just as Viconia and Imoen. Aerie is a decent supporting character, but I'd drop her in a heartbeat if a good bladesinger wanted to join me. If Aerie was a better traditional cleric, (i.e. could get into combat) maybe she'd be worth 2 gold pieces.

Besides that, she's so needy! If there was a kingdom of co-dependency, she and Anomen would be King and Queen!

Mourn Yauntyyr
Hater of all things annoying, arrogant and needy.

And Viconia is much more Horny :D

come on! Aerie is just too sweet to drop out of your party! and if you do so, i will go like minsc does: AERIE, NO-OOOOOOOO... *goes berserk and slashes all who are against her* :D

Aerie whines WAY too much! Viconia is MUCH hotter! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Aerie does have good spell selection though. She can make a very nice spellcaster at higher levels.

Makes a good spellcaster at lower levels, too. Functionally, she is a valuable member of practically any party. Whiny, solipsistic adolescent, but definitely a useful one.

I like Aerie and hate Vic. Vic is just so... so... drowy. Drow suck lets face they go around all day "oh look at us were afraid of a little sun, praise lolth" and all that turd. Whereas Aerie is not only a really good addition to the party but is also a good charecter anyway

Wankers, the lot of them... I'm with you on that one, mi amigo..

Aerie is the second best spell caster in the game. She should always be in your group if it is a good one.

I tried this. I tried a party direct from BG1 - Tancred the Paladin, Jahiera, Minsc, Imoen - and Anomen and Nalia, the first two NPCs we picked up. Then came the evil assassin, Malvolio, and his cohorts - Edwin, Korgan and Viconia <WHAT? less than 5 NPCs I hear you cry? Er, YES>. And then I thought I'd do a 'neutral' party with everyone I left out.

Ohhhhh dear.

Haer-Dalis? Check. Aerie? Check. Cernd? Check. Jan? Check. Valygar? Check.
Oh, we've all died again. Better use ANOTHER 5 charges from this over-taxed Wand of Ressurection then, EH, guys? Only when we recruited Keldorn and Mazzy to take some of the heat did we start getting anywhere. Aerie's good if you can surround her with a wall of muscle. Otherwise, she'll get shot/stabbed and die.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Micah Foehammer:
Viconia is MUCH hotter! [img]smile.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

No competition entered into now is there???? [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Well since we have another Aerie thread. She is a great character, people who usualy that have a problem using her forget this fact....She is a spellcaster, they die in a hack&slash situation till you tool them up. (try her with a elven chain +2,girdle of giant strength, and a good weapon [img]smile.gif[/img] ). I personaly like her, she is sweet and innocent.

Don't you guys ever get tired of talking about the same thing? [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

As long as you are *discussing* Aerie's relative value to a party in a productive game context this thread will be fine. But if it degenerates into a slanging spam match with comments like these...

...don't be surprised if all of a sudden you can't post to it anymore. ;)

Okay, Memnoch, no SPAM battles... but Aerie has some very good points!

My favorite Aerie trick is to put healing spells in her Contingency slot. Stoneskins are all mages get, but those aren't a pain in the butt to cast -- healing spells take much longer. Similarly, I live putting two healing spells in a Minor Sequencer.

Okay, Aerie in combat: she can wear the good stuff that a thief/mage can (elven chain) but also she can wear a helmet and shield. With a strength-boosting item (like the Strong Arm mace or a strength girdle), good helm and great sheild like the Fortress, she'll be able to withstand battle, though she won't excell at it.

Bad point: her low Int means that she'll hit her spell-memorization limits early. However, since she has access to all Priest spells, she won't need every Mage spell. For example, she can ignore Animate Dead, Detect Invisible, True Sight, Dispel Magic, Prot. from Fire, Prot. from Lightning, Prot. from Petrification (because of Death Ward), etc.

She's not going to be the one who grabs the Mace of Disruption and Amulet of Power and cleans out a vampire nest... but she could! :D

As to the inevitable question "what's she got that Vicky hasn't got", the answer is: Fireball, Magic Missile, Lightning Bolt, Greater Malison, Emotion, Melf's Acid Arrow and Minute Meteors, (Minor) Spell Sequencers and (eventually) Chain Lightning, Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, etc., etc.!

-- Nifft

Aerie has always been in my parties at the end of the game. 'Nuff said.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Memnoch:
[QB]Don't you guys ever get tired of talking about the same thing? [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

As long as you are *discussing* Aerie's relative value to a party in a productive game context this thread will be fine.

Well...that's what I wanted to discuss: Aerie's value AS a party member and AS a solo cleric. If she could hit lvl 14/15 in mage/cleric lvls respectively, she'd have been EVEN greater than now. Her low HP? Give her ANYTHING that gives her more HP bonuses. I have a friend (now in Korea) who raised Aerie's HP to almost 100 when she was lvl 12/13 using all the HP boosting items. Honestly.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by D*Ranged:

Give her ANYTHING that gives her more HP bonuses. I have a friend (now in Korea) who raised Aerie's HP to almost 100 when she was lvl 12/13 using all the HP boosting items. Honestly.<hr></blockquote>

I dont thiink so.... i seriously dounbt that even with all the HP boosting items (even the ones that she cant wear) she wouldnt reach 100... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

On the other hand.... with ToB she can get 2 100HP much easier :D ... or if u r a cheating type person an Xpcap remover would get her there 2 [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

i fail to understand how one could regard aerie a strong character. it´s not the hit points i´m concerned about since you can have stoneskin up 24/7... it´s her spellcasting abilities. sure, she has a lot of low-level spells... but she loses out the only things that make wizards worthwhile (project image and spell sequencer/trígger),

comparing aerie to a straight wizard would be difficult, because wizards can´t heal and aerie can´t recycle her spells/unleash them en masse with sequencers, both of which are very significant disadvantages. so it would make more sense to compare aerie with her chief competitor (strictly in terms of gameplay ;) ), viconia.

total number of spells and their levels aren´t that far apart when you reach the xp cap (13/13/12/9/7/4/1 for aerie, 11/11/10/10/8/6/2 for viconia). aerie benefits from greater versatility, viconia from a higher casting level. so what does aerie have what viconia doesn´t?

- several low-powered but fast damage spells.
- equally fast area disabling spells
- first rate self-protection like mirror image and stoneskin
- anti-magic spells like pierce magic and breach
- minor sequencer for a speed advantage in a pinch
- contingency for, well, congingencies
- ability to use mage items
- good utility spells (eg otiluke, polymorph self)

viconia however has a number of advantages as well:

- better ac
- better thaco
- more hit points
- magic resistance
- better ´heavy artillery´ (fire storm, flame strike, glyph of warding etc)
- better summoning ability (skeleton warriors and pet fiends)
- better dispelling ability due to higher level

while aerie has access to a few types of spells viconia doesn´t, she can´t cast more spells in total (and her spells are generally less powerful because of her level). her better protection and anti-magic spells hardly begin to make up for her lack of magic resistance, worse ac and lower hit points. being able to use the robe of vecna or staff of the magi (imo the most powerful item in the game) is very nice, but most parties will include at least one full-time wizard who could make as good use of it. her major advantage lies in the casting speed of her wizard spells, cleric equivalents, while often as powerful or more, tend to be slow.

aerie is the only npc in the game that doesn´t do anything well:

nalia/imoen: marginal thief/good wizard
jan : bad wizard/good thief
anomen : reasonable fighter/good cleric
jaheira : reasonable fighter/good druid
aerie : bad wizard/reasonable cleric

moreover, without the higher-level sequencers and project image, there is little synergy between the cleric and wizard class compared to other combinations, which are truly more than the sum of their parts: jaheira and haer'dalis (i know haer'dalis isn´t multiclassed but he plays similar to a fighter/mage) fulfill their roles as fighters much better because they have access to various buffing spells, jan can hide by magic in between backstabs (staff of the magi and a strength girdle turn him into a veritable killing machine). aerie on the other hand remains just your average cleric with a few mage spells thrown in.

I have never gotten Aerie to 100+ Hp before, but I have boosted her to 98 Hp before, in ToB.

Screenshot.

The thing about Aerie is that she versality. She is very good as a support spellcaster in SoA, and becomes a spellcasting Goddess in ToB.

I also question the idea that Anomen is a reasonable Fighter. If you buff him up with all his clerical spells, he becomes a good fighter. Aerie is not a bad wizard, she still has Greater Malison, Magic Missile, Emotion, Lower Resistance, Mirror Image, Flame Arrow, etc... ...

Sure... she may not have level 7-9 spells, but bear in mind that, that is because she also has Clerical spells. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Low INT is not an issue, simply drink Potion of Geniuses to memorise every single scroll.

In fact... I bet Aerie can solo the game easily. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by F. Gottwald:
i fail to understand how one could regard aerie a strong character. it´s not the hit points i´m concerned about since you can have stoneskin up 24/7... it´s her spellcasting abilities. sure, she has a lot of low-level spells... but she loses out the only things that make wizards worthwhile (project image and spell sequencer/trígger),

comparing aerie to a straight wizard would be difficult, because wizards can´t heal and aerie can´t recycle her spells/unleash them en masse with sequencers, both of which are very significant disadvantages. so it would make more sense to compare aerie with her chief competitor (strictly in terms of gameplay ;) ), viconia.

total number of spells and their levels aren´t that far apart when you reach the xp cap (13/13/12/9/7/4/1 for aerie, 11/11/10/10/8/6/2 for viconia). aerie benefits from greater versatility, viconia from a higher casting level. so what does aerie have what viconia doesn´t?

- several low-powered but fast damage spells.
- equally fast area disabling spells
- first rate self-protection like mirror image and stoneskin
- anti-magic spells like pierce magic and breach
- minor sequencer for a speed advantage in a pinch
- contingency for, well, congingencies
- ability to use mage items
- good utility spells (eg otiluke, polymorph self)

viconia however has a number of advantages as well:

- better ac
- better thaco
- more hit points
- magic resistance
- better ´heavy artillery´ (fire storm, flame strike, glyph of warding etc)
- better summoning ability (skeleton warriors and pet fiends)
- better dispelling ability due to higher level

while aerie has access to a few types of spells viconia doesn´t, she can´t cast more spells in total (and her spells are generally less powerful because of her level). her better protection and anti-magic spells hardly begin to make up for her lack of magic resistance, worse ac and lower hit points. being able to use the robe of vecna or staff of the magi (imo the most powerful item in the game) is very nice, but most parties will include at least one full-time wizard who could make as good use of it. her major advantage lies in the casting speed of her wizard spells, cleric equivalents, while often as powerful or more, tend to be slow.

aerie is the only npc in the game that doesn´t do anything well:

nalia/imoen: marginal thief/good wizard
jan : bad wizard/good thief
anomen : reasonable fighter/good cleric
jaheira : reasonable fighter/good druid
aerie : bad wizard/reasonable cleric

moreover, without the higher-level sequencers and project image, there is little synergy between the cleric and wizard class compared to other combinations, which are truly more than the sum of their parts: jaheira and haer'dalis (i know haer'dalis isn´t multiclassed but he plays similar to a fighter/mage) fulfill their roles as fighters much better because they have access to various buffing spells, jan can hide by magic in between backstabs (staff of the magi and a strength girdle turn him into a veritable killing machine). aerie on the other hand remains just your average cleric with a few mage spells thrown in.<hr></blockquote>

I Love Vic way betta than Aerie 2.... but unfortunately you are comparing them in the wrong way... I have 3 words for u.... Robe of Vecna. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Mr. Gottwald, if project image and the sequencers are your only qualification for a competent mage, then you are probably right in not using Aerie. However, in that case, I would also suggest that you probably have an unusual playing style, as well. It also doesn't take into account the long period of time when the characters will be relatively low level, when Aerie's support is a godsend.

I abhor Aerie's personality... every once in a while she says something that doesn't make me want to wretch. But that's just a script thing, and appropriate for the character being portrayed -- she IS immature (that's why her Quayle sent her out in the world to begin with, because the Circus certainly wasn't doing her any good, and she desperately needs to "learn the ropes.").

As a spellcaster, she is unsuited to playing the same sort of role that one would use with Edwin, or Viconia, or even Nalia/Imoen. What Aerie is really good at is support, or, as my twin used to say back in our PnP days, "Swiss Army Mage." Ëven humble spells like "knock" have a purpose, and we've always gotten much more than the textbook mileage out of our spellcasters by playing combinations (say, web+cloudkill).

Healing ability is not to be underrated, either, as that is the determinant of your party's longevity, or adventuring range before resting. Potions eventually run out, and the ability to keep everybody afloat determines how far you go. In her case, it's healing plus bless, chant, fireball, haste, melf's, sanctuary... I suspect that most parties aren't getting much mileage out of fireball because they're not thinking group tactics and tossing off three or even four of them at a time, which, once you're good at judging range, is a great way of turning fights into non-fights.

By and large, I think the urge compare either of the dual-class characters in this week's threads, J. or Ae., to Viconia, is entirely misplaced, and a misunderstanding of their role. You take Vicky when you need a flat-out priestess. You take J. (well, in my case because she's one of my main character's best friends, and leaving her in a dungeon to rot would suck) because you need a druid and fighter. If your party needs somebody to play spellcaster shortstop... Aerie's your gal.

fair points, but i stand by my words.
i wasn´t saying that mages are hopeless without those high-level spells, but in my opinion without them they have little to offer that a cleric can´t provide.
you will usually not care whether you´re hurling glyphs of warding or skull traps at your opponents, but you will care about the damage those spells do - and aerie is behind single class spellcasters by quite a margin. similarly, while aerie has access to a large number of summoning spells, she can´t utilise the best one of them (animate dad) to full effect.

aerie is indeed marginally useful as a ´swiss army mage´, but i never felt any need for that type of character - 3 fully packed scroll cases will suffice for all the wizard spells you might never need but which might make your day some time and the truly crucial spell effects (like stone to flesh, resurrection, restoration, cure poison) are available in form of items if push comes to shove and shove comes to oops. aerie only really fits the bill if you´re desperate for a cleric and a backup wizard and have only 1 slot left... unless you pick her up for her charm and radiant personality (or as someone to pick on).

a simple example should demonstrate my point: assume you could clone aerie, then compare the 2 of them against edwin and viconia as a team - i could hardly think of a situation in which the 2 aeries would be more useful (unless we get a group of naked dancing aeries as a cheap xena rip-off... but i am digressing). on the other hand, 2 jans could do all sorts of wonderful things that edwin and yoshimo could not because thief and mage abilities wonderfully complement each other (but then, 2 jans would annoy any party enough to be in danger of ending up nailed upside down to the gates of athkatla with a turnip up each nostril or worse).

Therein lies the kicker. Aerie can take on the role of two people. If you cannot have both Edwin and Viconia, then Aerie can compensate; but this is an unusual scenerio since Edwin and Viconia are evil NPCs, and Aerie is a good NPC. So we have to compare good with good.

Anomen, Nalia, Jan, Imoen and Jaheira.

Chances are, people will want to keep Imoen and Jaheira. Minsc and Jan are high contenders as well.

So we have you,
Minsc,
Jaheira,
Jan,
Imoen/Yoshimo
~~blank~~

When Jan is 'discovered', we can kick out Yoshimo. Nalia might be taken if the player is not a Mage. If the player is indeed a Mage, then Aerie will be wonderful as a background spellcaster, since Jaheira is usually used as a tank.

Jan is not the best backup spellcaster, because Aerie beats him flat with her superior selection; but... but... he is an excellent Thief.

I'll butt in with another tip (on topic this time :D )

In terms of relative value, there are probably better single-class NPCs in SoA. Aerie's strength (and Jan, HaerDalis and the other multis) is their versatility. In SoA you want specialists, since they can level up to high levels more quickly and get closer to the XP cap sooner. Multis will not reach the XP cap in SoA, unless you have a 2-man party and pick one of them as a member.

But if you want to develop someone to take all the way to ToB, where racial level limits are NOT implemented and these multis (especially a cleric/mage like Aerie) can reach extremely high levels in ALL their classes when the singles have all virtually maxed out in their single class in terms of skills, spellcasting, etc...

Think of the 7th-level divine AND 9th level arcane spells she'd be able to cast towards the end - not to mention access to the Level 10 and Quest spells like Dragon's Breath, Improved Alacrity (which will apply to BOTH divine and arcane spells), Storm of Vengeance, Implosion, etc.) [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Memnoch ]</p>

Aerie can be awesome if kitted out with the right things. I had her wield Staff of Rhynn +4 with girdle of Hill giant strength - combined with bracers of defense AC 3 and ring of protection +2. She was unbeatable later in the game. Only problem is her low hit points. That really sucks.

Second best spellcaster in the game ! what ! she is crap! imoen, jaheira, viconia, edwin are much better !