Ok, melusine. Both a multiclass fighter/thief and a fighter dualled to a thief is much better than the regular thief. I prefer the fighter dualled to a thief. Why? Because a normal thief has terribel THACO, cannot specialize in weapons (except swashbuckler), and has a lot lower hit points. If you dual a fighter at level 9, you can get to the same level as a regular thief. The problem with the swashbuckler is that it can't backstab, which is the thief's best ability. The swashbuckler can't get as low THACO as a fighter/thief or get grand mastery in a weapon (not that important, but still).

Ertai:

Swashbucklers can specialize in any thief weapon EXCEPT, for no apparent reason, Katanas. Two points in Long Sword and two points in Short Bow (and later one point in Single Weapon Style) makes for a very effective thief.

The game designers seem a bit conflicted about thieves and katanas. Yoshimo has no trouble backstabbing with his, but Valygar's is "inappropriate for backstabbing". I haven't tried with other katanas in the game. And the "katana => great warrior of HONOR!" thing conflicts just a wee tad with the "katana => weapon of choice for thief" thing as personified by Yoshimo.


My pick for best thief armour is Aeger's Hide. It's not the best AC, but it's available very early and the confusion protection is very valuable, especially when running away from Umber Hulks (to lure them into your traps or just because your backstab didn't quite take one out).

Which are the best thief items including weapons and all armour (gloves, belt etc.),i've heard i should specialize in katana's because of a katana +3 called celestial fury?

I'd sal do a bow, becouse its the best for a thief, and the short bow of gesen, thensers bow..., gloves of pickpoceting, shadow armor, boots of speed.

ehm lets think

Armor of the deep night (look at it cleric it's better than shadow armor)
boots of stealth/boots of elvenkind
cloak of elvenkind
gloves of pickpocketing
mercykiller ring
ring of something that boots your thief skills
eh well
that's about it
these are all specific thief things
other stuff are dependend on you party what is the best to give your thief

lets see, best pure thief items would have to be:

Armor of the deep night
boots of stealth or boots of elvenkind (iI think elvenkind are better, have +30% move silent)
loak of stealth or Solaufeins cloak (he's a drow elf in the underdark, but the cloak is destroyed on exiting the underdark though it is possible to avoid this)
Gloves of pick pocketing
Ring of danger sense (better trap detect skill)
Ring of lock picks

oh and Celestial fury is incredibly effective for a thief with Katana's skills (eg Yoshimo)
And thats about all i can think of right now

Never use a pure thief though, because then you cannot specialize in katanas.
The fighter/thief is the best choice.

No I think a fighter/thief has a big disadvantage because he levels up far slower. One of the biggest advantages of a thief is that they level up so quickly. Besides, the swashbuckler, a pure thief kit, can specialise in any weopon that a thief may use (including katanas)

Melusine, swashbuckler can have *** in dualwielding and his/her attacks progress at the same rate as a fighter BUT they cant specialize in any weapon.
And i dont think a fighter/thief is that bad, im playing one currently and even if he levels up VERY slowly, hes pretty good i think

OK sorry i thought they couldnt get 2 profs in weapons because i tried with katana and i couldnt, so i supposed it would be the same for other weapons (like long sword).

Anyway, maybe this katana thing is because of this: if you read the bounty hunter´s description, it says that bounty hunters have skill with exotic weapons like KATANAS. So maybe this is the reason why only them can backstabb with katanas i think

Every thief can backstab with a katana. Valygars katana is no good for that.

Anywho... Fighter-thieves are good (19 str, 19 con and an extra -2 AC with half orc) and learn skills fast enough because the thief skills come fast. Fighter dualclassed to thieves are good too.
What's worse is the swashbuckler. Significantly lower HP than either, worse AC, worse THACO, far fewer proficiencies, no ability to backstab. Halfway into the game you have at least 100 points in each skill just about, then you just have too many skills.

Shadow dragon armor is the armor my half-orc fighter-thief wears. Best AC in the game.

SPOILER!!





Celestial Fury is a katana + 3 which can be found in the guarded compound in the temple district. It stuns upon hit unless the victim saves at gods knows minus what.

If you think that suits you then take it! It's a pretty good weapon though I never use it. If you want my opinion then a swashbuckler is a good choice - three slots for two weapon style and better traps.

Do you like backstabbing? No I don't mean YOU as in real life!! Heh heh, . If you don't then take the swashbuckler as dual wielding two long swords such as Adjatha The Drinker +2 and Daystar or Dragonslayer, is a very powerful combination!

BTW, if you said "yes" and mistook the question above then stay away from me!!! Hehe.

Regarding swashbucklers and katanas...

1. I think that that fact that a swashie can get only 1 * in katana is just a typo. I've read the kit file for swashies and it does have a 1 for katana, but 2 for every other weapon.

2. I disagree about a thief's best ability being backstab. I believe that a thief's most important ability (OK ...2) is Find Traps/Open Locks. All things considered, a party can get along without backstabbing. Finding Traps and Opening Locks is far more critical to the overall success of a party.

This is why I love swashbuckers. For their improved combat abilities, swashbucklers give up backstabbing. Works for me...

At 79,000 exp., the thief has enough points to handle every door and trap in the game, with some to spare for hiding. After that you're putting points on hide, and then detect illusions. It seems that a long term thief kit is pretty much a waste. And if your swashbuckler starts out becoming a dual wield master, he can't even use the bow until level 11, and he has to wait till 16 to be specialized in it. If the swashbuckler choose to dual wield and specialize in long swords, he'll wait til 21 to specialize in short bow.

Multi-class and dual-class fighter-thief are better to me that thief alone. I Hate rogue thac0 and never I will play a Thief alone because of that. Dual class the fighter with exceptionnal strengh score to a thief and backstab after that is very deadly. The other way, the thief to a fighter too is very good, to backstab at a very low thac0 and grand mastery ... ouch! Celestial is my favorite weapon !! They should had make the weapon intelligent and make it speak to is weilder sometimes like it has found evil near or treasure ... They did not put in the game Charon's claw , another great blade that Artemis Entreri Did found and use or his vampiric dagger.