i think the magi will win
becoz they can disable the fighters (any fighter paladin, ranger, fighter)

But I currently play a fighter who is wearing the cloak of reflection and has 140% magic resistance: TRY BEATING THE HELL OUT OF ME WITH THAT!!

Okay!! You asked for it!! We'll have a 3 on three match.

THREE FIGHTERS VS THREE MAGES

Dare to challenge me Rikard? hehehe

to get around the cloak, the other 6 mages can just charm the other 5 fighters and then it'd be a 11 on 1... afterwards the mages can watch as the other 5 fighters dual to the death

verminaard

If you have a 140% magic resistance, the magi has no chance. six on 1, they won't even win. but if its a clean fight, the magi will win. How?

The first three or 2 as baits, mages with spell trigger, they should have at least ONE mage that is not interrupted. If they all are... byebyebye mages...

magic restance ha ha ha.
proection spells on the mages, summoned monster ie morkins swords to kill anyone with the cloak of mirroring. spells to reducing the magic restance and the BLAM, Roast Fighters.

hands down mages win every time.

ps mantle, stone skin and continces only take a few seconds

If the fighters had frost arrows they'd easily win. Mages would never get a shot off.

It's a 6 on 6 battle when suddenly... THE DM ROLLS A 100 ON A RANDOM ENCOUNTER DIE CAUSING A RANDOM ENCOUNTER WITH THE TARASQUE!!!

A Charge Attack, Sharpness Bite, a couple of Claw Slashes and a Tail Swipe later and the winner is... the Tarasque!

Okay, case closed.

Really, it all depends on WHO the players are, and who the DM is. But do you ever notice we never fight a big FIGHTER at the end of these Games, it is always a MAGE. Hmmmmmmmmmm . . .

Yeah, but that's cause you have fought so many battles that they just HAVE to give you an easy finale. LOL Who easier to finish with than a mage?

Have the mages keep animating the dead, unless all the fighters have totally high level anti-undead stuff, they'll bash uselessly at the stoneskin also kept casting by my mages while the skeletons are hacking away with their swords at the fighters backs.

I've taken out liches and beholders using animate the dead. my high level skeleton warriors pin down the enemy, distracts them, and unless they have to cover a killing ground to get to the enemy, their attacks do a great job of spell interrupting. also I like to imagine the horror of a beholder, lord of all it sees, being attacked by a wave of undead cuisinarts hacking away at you. also, using the project image cheat, I once experimented with 12 skeleton warriros to attack the demilich. didn't work, though.

I don't now , but why only mages
have low HP , but by the mages its depents(spelling) of ther AC , and the distance of where the fighters stand.

Sarevok was pretty much a fighter

The higher the level you get the more the odds favour mages. They keep getting better spells. But are you going magic items or no items? Fighters can get a high magic resistance, cloak of reflection, sword that causes silence, immunity to charm, invisibility potions etc. If you're using items then one runs up invisible with cloak of non detection and Namarra. Another one or two shoot mages with frost arrows or arrows of dispelling then others just beat the crap out them. Stun each wizard one at a time with Celestial fury or drain their levels with Black razor.

Well, although I made that joke up above, my money would have to be on the mages. I mean, as long as both parties knew about the combat before hand, there are just so many possibilities that a Mage party could prepare for. Think about it. They could work together and have 1 mage memorize all of the summoning spells. 1 mage with all the prep spells (cast before combat). Then you have another mage with defensive spells (can we say walls of ice/stone/etc. Not to mention imprisonment or what not. Then you could have a mage with just fire based spells (if the one mage that casts wall can completely surround the fighters) to fireball between the walls and totally destroy the fighters. That still leaves 2 more mages to cast whatever spells they would deem necessary left over. I mean, we are talking about just 6 fighters, right? This still does not include magical items. Yes, if a fighter party had some kind of 100% magical resistance, they could weather a lot of that, but there still is the summoning spells and gate spells that could bring something very difficult to fight. It's the mages by a long shot. At low level, the fighters have the mages skunked though. Also, if there is no preparation before battle, more than likely the fighters would win too.

Well I STILL think 6 fighters!! I haveso much magic resistance and not a single spells can get through me. I killed loads of cowled wizards by just standing there until they waste all their spells!!.

And oh yeah - I fight pit fiends for training so that isn't gonna stop me.

You can't have 6 on 6. You can have 3 on 3 however.
Try having one archer with a stack of dispelling arrows and the Thurigan Bow. Make one wizard slayer, and the third (beserker for resistances probably) who can wear the helm that grants simcrulium. Equip two with the boots of speed. This gives you two beserkers and a wizardslayer charging into melee, one for each mage. The archer will strike at all the mages. However, because you can't pause in multiplayer the archer would have to be extremely deft to fire one arrow at each mage at a time, and he cannot wate time to switch to another stack through inventory, he has to pick the right number of dispelling arrows so that he runs out and goes to biting arrows.
One thing to point out is that you can't summon monsters effectively to fight another player because the other player can probably control those monsters as well. If only the mage party can control them, the fighters would be able to reduce the mage effectiveness by summoning their own monsters through horns and items, and reaching the limit on summoned, depriving the mages of their ability to summon. Use of the horn of blasting may also interrupt casting. A smart fighter player should be able to beat the mages consistently.

I also have another fighter dual wielding the FLAIL OF AGES + 3 and FROSTREAVER + 3, so the extra 1hp of frost damage, acid damage, cold damage and fire damage keeps on interupting the spells!!

And no, stoneskin doesn't help!!

Lower Resistance
Breach
Tanor transformation
Greater mantle
spells fighters can't stop
if you are at 160 magic resistance that is about level 50 or something
inmagine the power of a level 50 mage

Coweld wizard are stupid and don't know how to use spells

it would depend on what levels each are at and also if the wizards are allowed to use warding spells(well placed of course)and farsight/detection so as to turn invisible before the fighters even know what bhit them......Now if you had some fighters that used terrain effectively....i do believe that bows can reach further then spells,maybe behind some rocks for additional cover.......i have to think more about this one,TOO MANY VARIABLES.

hmm... fighters are strong and together with the cloak of reflection (which was meant for beholders) and with 100+% resistance you can give a magic user the time of his life... yet with the right spells, you can defeat any fighter...

here are some spells in which i experemented that can be useful against fighters even though they have cloak of reflection and magical resistances 100+%:
- fireshield (red or blue)- they hit you, you hit them so simple
- protection from magical weapons- they cant hit you with thier best weapons yet if they remove it they lose thier bonuses like resistance or something
- invisibility or improved invisibility- they can hit what they cant see ... good for escape for mages also
- sircucilum- nice to have a double casting spells the same as you
- mirror image- fighters will get dizzy right?
- summon monsters (any monsters)- to help bash thier heads
- summon a sword (mordikein sword, sorry i fogot the spelling) - but one hit and ouchie for fighters
- shapechange- to help you in small ways (for example... if you need healing just change into a troll and viola instant healing plus invisibility so you can heal as much as you want)
- ring of the ram (item)- no save... even againt reflection
- now... if all else fails... and you run out of spells... (for a lvl 50 fighter against lvl 50 mage)... just use imprisonment... instant death no save and poof bye bye...

thats it for my support for mages...

Wah's right, anything with extra elemental damage goes straight through stoneskins and weapon protections. If one of the fighters had the celestial fury the mages would be in trouble, since its stun also goes through every defense.

Ok, maybe I misunderstood this theoretical battle. I thought we were talking about in PnP games, if you mean CRPG, then you would be extremely restricted what you could do. Also, if this was a CRPG, are we saying that the fighters or mages or both were under computer control. We are talking artificial intelligence here, and to date, it sucks. Whoever the non-computer characters were, would probably win. Think fog of war. Delay tactics for spells to wear off. Etc. If you mean player/player, then it would go by available spells and/or computer delay for the mages and available protection items (if allowed) for either side. Nothing can truly match a PnP adventure. Don't get me wrong, CRPG make things look flashier, but you can not do anything/everything you want to in the game. If you can, then you are very short sighted in what a character can accomplish. Should I bribe an official to get a certain letter to become a lord so that I can infiltrate a nearby town? What about getting a rope and grapple in order to climb a wall of a particular establishment needing to be looted? What about seducing yon bar maid so that I can help my party members avail themselves of the back rooms free of charge? Suppose I decide that I want to bash into a room that is wizard locked and decide that I want to bust the wall in, instead? Can you do all of this and more at any given moment in a CRPG? No. You can't. Only what is scripted in. What about casting fly? How many Black Isle games will allow this? Spider Climb? Hmmmm. Can't seem to find that one. What about cantrips? Can I cast sneeze just to get a laugh from the party when I'm at a boring lecture and can endure no more from the speaker? Just a thought here.

Eh... yeah. Thing is, P&P AD&D is a lot more involved than a CRPG. You need a whole group of other friends who are willing, you need a lot of books, an able and imaginative dungeon master, a well-planned campaign... over the years I've come to the conclusion that probably the hardest day-to-day thing you can do is try and organise people. For those who don't have all the time and motivation to play P&P, a CRPG is a pretty good substitute. That aside, and despite the comments I made earlier, the mages probably would win, but it really depends on their levels and the skill of the people playing them. Oh, and whether or not they can pause the game freely, too, since selecting the right spell can be quite hard to do on the run.

Well, that's why I'm hoping that this Neverwinter Nights thing will work out pretty good. They will allow a human DM to oversee the game, so ... Well, maybe it won't be so hard finding other players and needing the books. We can only hope, right?

you know if i would have named this topic
The great 'we are gonna put 6 fighters against 6 magi and look who is gonna win' POLL
we would have those the subject line must be less than 90 problem

In any PvP debate you need to first establish the groundrules. 1) What levels are we talking about. That makes a HUGE difference on which party I put my money on. 2) Is this CRPG or PnP. Which leads to 3) What buffs are allowed. A bunch of fighters (wizardslayer kits) with the appropriate buffs (Cloak of Cheating, Crom Faeyr, Oil of Speed etc) versus mages who have not had the appropriate spells memorized could take them out. But if the mages are allowed to cast spells like Timestop, Absolute Immunity, Gate etc then it makes a difference. Otherwise the entire discussion becomes a back-and-forth of 'if i had the Singlet of Total Magic Invulnerability I'd kick your ass!' and 'Oh but I'll use my Wand of Draining the Singlet of Total Magic Invulnerability and it'll be YOUR ass that gets kicked.' Establish the rules by which you're gonna PvP then go for it.

A final word: When you meet a group of enemies of various classes, there's usually a guy at the back, in a robe, who starts mumbling strange words. How many of us target HIM first, with either range weapons or spells? Just a thought.

Yep, all good points, 'specially the last bit, which I can well and truly relate to. First thing into a battle: chaos and/or emotion with that blasted mumbling mage in mind. : )

That is so true memnoch
but you shouldn't only target the guy in the strange cloathing (but it looks good though)
but also the guy in the armor saying strange words and point at the sky

Too true Rikard. Too true.

Exactly! When the guy in the robe or the guy in armor starts pointing at the sky and babbling "Vita, mortis, cardio" or somesuch, that's when you go oh shit! better take him out of the fight quickly or disrupt whatever the hell he's saying.

Unless you're playing BG1 and they're only level 2 in which case you don't give a shit!

I usually like to target whoever has all those cool glowing boxes or cylinders around them too. Cause I know they already have some kinda protection on them already.

you do have to wacth one magic missle can hurt when you are level 2 as well

Rikard, not sure if u know but there's a big red x on your sig.

Ah, another pointless argue if you ask me..

If you want to play it like that I can give some more devastating ideas to handle..

How about 6 Thieves against 6 Druids?
Or why not 6 Bards against 6 Beserkers?

But the best there is...

Play six of any one class and meet a party of 6 different characters.. Cooperation teams will win...
So well don´t argue, a dude before said something important though, depends alot on the players and the DM...

nice huh

i just think its cool

Remember it's 3 on 3 not six on six (multiplayer only allows 6 total). Three wizardslayers would beat three mages though. They just have to hit the mage to cause 10% spell failure. They don't have to actually do damage, get past mislead, stoneskin or what-not. One with the Thurdigan bow will do 40% spellcasting failure in one round.

Since you are restricting it to CRPG and you are restricting it to multi-player mode with only 6 total contestants, are you saying the three mages are to be controlled by any specific individual, or is this a team effort. Also, the same question with the fighters (wizard-slayers, or whatever?). Now, since we have that much of the scenario, do we just start hacking and slashing? Or do we allow the party time to get some protection stuff up or to equip items or weapons?

I say if there is no warning beforehand, the fighters win.

If you are allowing the mages time to prepare themselves, it depends on their level. The higher a level the mages, the better their chance for survival. Otherwise, it's still gonna be on the fighters to win.

Multiplayer lets you assign characters to the different players. In this case 3 mages to one and three fighters to the other. I would think fighters could choose from any kit including paladin and ranger kits. I am also assuming that these would be characters who are maxed out on exp and can use any item in the game but just not multiple of the same item (with the exception of boots of speed because there are two in the game). Fighters would not have access to items that would normally go to mages in a party. I would give the mages a chance to use contingency beforehand (but no other spells) then set the two parties within visual range of each other and pause. This simulates an NPC encounter with mages. It also gives every player a chance to target the others with their spells/weapons, or use an item. I say under these rules the fighter (as long as there is one with Thuridgan's bow and arrows of dispelling) will win. A smart mage will have the equipment that gives them a good chance of winning. A dumb mage will lose.