First, there's the oft mentioned insect plague
Second, she rocks with the Impaler/ Belm and boots of speed
Third, she can wear amulet of power... vampires? what vampires?
Fourth, she can be a romantic interest [img]smile.gif[/img]

The only possible con is her relatively little HP, and no restoration spell :(

<font color="red"> Yes, Jaheira is a good NPC to have... Low HP solved with helm of balduron if u dont want another helmet...
Save up alot of money, and when u have enough remember that she is Proficient in Quarterstaffs... Then go shopping with Ribald!
And no restoration spells? No problem- either make ur player character a cleric kit or multiclass, or use one of the other clerics supplied in the game... ie. Anomen, Viconia, or Aerie. And the amulet of power isnt realy needed if u have negative plane protection as a spell... but ofcourse u may want it. Remember that there's a Periphet of Proof Against POison in the game somewhere... it is a useful little necklace.
And ofcourse- remember that no Character is always good- it depends on ur meaning of good. This information u may not agree with, and u dont have to... thats just IMO.</font>

You are right son. She rocks.

Well, personally I wouldnt touch Jaheira with a stick. She is sooo irritating. And what is the deal with that german accent. Or is it my version that decided to have fun with me.

Regarding her usefulness as npc. Im not going to deny she has some good points, but I think she is highly overrated. Viconia is far better than her (Jaheira choice of weapons is ludicrous) in almost every aspect. Spellcasting, combat, etc.


PLUS,
(Minor Spoiler)
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Vic doesnt care if you sleep with the Drow Priestess in the Underdark. :D

Well, personally I wouldnt touch Jaheira with a stick. She is sooo irritating. And what is the deal with that german accent. Or is it my version that decided to have fun with me.

Regarding her usefulness as npc. Im not going to deny she has some good points, but I think she is highly overrated. Viconia is far better than her (Jaheira choice of weapons is ludicrous) in almost every aspect. Spellcasting, combat, etc.


PLUS,
(Minor Spoiler)
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Vic doesnt care if you sleep with the Drow Priestess in the Underdark. :D

i'm a big jaheira fan here - something cool about seeing her turn her feelings around - anyway, she does rock as a good fighter/spellcaster, and the way to get around that restoration thing is to just buy some scolls - i usually keep a stock of about 5-10, just in case i run into something a bit nasty and don't want to restart or whatever

later
oaxaca_dan

[QUOTE]Originally posted by norompanlasolas:
Well, personally I wouldnt touch Jaheira with a stick. She is sooo irritating. And what is the deal with that german accent. Or is it my version that decided to have fun with me.

Regarding her usefulness as npc. Im not going to deny she has some good points, but I think she is highly overrated. Viconia is far better than her (Jaheira choice of weapons is ludicrous) in almost every aspect. Spellcasting, combat, etc.


PLUS,
(Minor Spoiler)
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Vic doesnt care if you sleep with the Drow Priestess in the Underdark. :D [/QUOTE
Erm, in my game, she says something about flaying you alive...But I definitely agree. I know I love Vickey, but from a powergaming point of view, the fact that Jah can't wield the Flail of Ages should rule her out of any newbie's party. Even anomen (pause for retching) is better from that angle.

<font color="gold">I am a big fan of Jaheira. She is a good NPC, and, in my opinion, the best romance NPC. Except the solo-games, I have only played once without Jaheira.</font>


see ya!

Jaheira was my most hated NPC in BG. Now she's one of my favorites. I usually give her a good sling and let her shoot from the backcourt. There are also some of useful clubs and scimitars out there.

Jaheira is hands down my MVP. Used correctly she can disable mages, heal tanks, swat monsters, shoot missiles from the background, summon hordes of critters for extra smackings, and make up tons of goodberries (yea, I know, you powergamers don't like them... but they're PERMANENT, and fifty goodberries stuck in the bottom corner of an inventory has kept me from reloading once or twice after a really hard fight. Use 'em the same way you'd think of regenerating. Of course, in PnP Druids also had Greatberries and KickAssWalnuts....)

I really don't see the flail of ages as an issue in those circumstances, as any number of npc's can use them, and Jah can use a wide variety of other very effective weapons. Quite honestly, said flail is usually a backup weapon in my party... there's so much hardware out there, all of it excellent...

i never found a good use of the flail of ages. I cariied it around since i got it and always kept thinking this will be useful for someone, it never was even though i kept it right till the end of throne of bhaal. I think Jaheria is probably best with a good scimitar.

OK, I won't say this is the final word on the Jah vs. Vickey debate- as Russ says elsewhere, it's a matter of taste. BUT, I have a game saved that has both Jah and Vickey in it. I don't remember the levels, but Jah is at least about the same as Vickey. As our story opens, my group is sitting around at the Copper Coronet. J and V get into a catfight over Attalus, the Paladin. They challenge each other to a duel to the death. J has 88 HP, Vickey 74. I flip a coin to see who goes first. Vickey wins. From then on it is:
Viconia-attacks Jahiera
Viconia-critical miss
Jahiera-attacks Viconia
Jahiera did 7 damage to Viconia
Jahiera did 3 damage to Viconia
Viconia-attacks Jahiera
Viconia-did 21 damage to Jahiera
Viconia-did 4 damage to Jahiera
Viconia-did 22 damage to Jahiera
Viconia-did 4 damage to Jahiera
Jahiera-did 7 damage to Viconia
Jahiera-did 3 damage to Viconia
Jahiers-did 9 damage to Viconia
Jahiera did 3 damage to Viconia
Viconia did 20 damage to Jahiera
Viconia did 4 damage to Jahiera
Viconia did 21 damage to Jahiera
Jahiera-death
Viconia finished with 48/74 HP. Jahiera has Blackblood, Viconia Crom Fayer, which, like tha Flail of Ages, Jahiera can't wield.So, like I said, doesn't prove anything, except that Vickey is a better tank, at least in that game.

if you give jah some strength modifier, e.g. girdle of stone giant strength, then i think jah would've won that fight. Improving jah's strength imho will make her as good a tank as any other single class fighter.

Give both of them Full Plate Mail.

Give Viconia Crom Faeyr

Give Viconia the Sentinel Shield

Give Jaheira the Impaler +3

Give Jaheira the Girdle of Hill Giant Strength

Cast Ironskins on Jaheira

Cast Draw Upon Holy Might on Viconia

Cast Blade Barrier on Viconia

Cast any other buff spells on both of them

Do not cast offensive spells( like Insect Plague), as we are testing out their melee abilities.

If I had to lay a wager, I would bet on Jaheira. Yup, you read that right, I would bet on the NPC that I always kill in my games.

Bear in mind that this is not taking ToB into consideration. If Jaheira had Greater Whirlwinds... Viconia would not even last one round... okay, maybe two rounds... ...

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
Cast Draw Upon Holy Might on Viconia
<hr></blockquote>
Just out of interest why cast draw upon unholy might when vicconia already has a strength of 25 with the crom faeyr?

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by andy the assasin:
Just out of interest why cast draw upon unholy might when vicconia already has a strength of 25 with the crom faeyr?<hr></blockquote>

To boost her DEX and improve her AC.

Jahiera has:Red dragon Plate and Shield, Hill Giant strength belt, Helm of Balduran, Blackblood. (Don't have Impaler). Vickey has Gorgon Plate, Helm of Defense, Shield of the Order.No spells or potions allowed. The point is, who's the better tank, and in that game, Vickey surely is, 10 times out of 10. I'm sure you could move stuff around and get a different result, but then you always can.

I know! I know!

<font size="10">Fistfight!!!!</font>

No armour, helmets, or any equipment at all! Just their clothes and fists!

:D

Then we can have a fair fight. ;)

why have cloutes? cant they just fist fight with out any thing at all? just jokeing...

personaly, i really dont like etherm but i dont think i played them right, jerina always played up front, i ignored spells, and really screwed up on geting her disentigrated, vic, i gave her a chance but she just didnt seem worth it at first, guess i should have given her a chance. how about both of them together? but then my party whould have both of them, arie, imoin, and minsce. that party is ok but really missing the guys. its my guy and minsc holding back people while the spell slinger they their best till the badies get there, then arie need protection, and imoin has a chance of geting screwed. jerina and vic might be able to hold their own... but not if its a huge party of monsters... now i really want to try this party out...

WARNING MAY CONTAIN SPOILER
I will have to give Jaheira credit on my game at least.
I had Both in my party, both armed with the best Weapons&Armor in the game (yes I cheated and created the stuff boo hoo!). Any I'm now at the end of ToB Having Completed SoA and I'm sorry to report Viconia=Quasit food (got chunked during the fight with the drow BhaalSpawn talk about Irony)
Jaheira=still kicking and doing some good damage to Melissan I might add.

But Just for kicks I think the next time I play through I'll referee a little cat fight. Jaheira vs. Viconia no armor no spells, I might give them each an ordinary dagger, and let'em go at it.

Hahahahha....reading this thread is funny. Galadria...you're cute!
Anyway, I haven't played much with Viconia compared to Jahiera and so naturally I find Jaheira more annoying...especially

(SPOILER!)


When you are romancing Aerie and Jaheira keeps slating poor Aerie. If you just pit Viconia and Jahiera against each other without items and just fists and spells...who would win? I believe they are quite equal.

Oh and can you sleep with either of those two too? With Aerie you can. So....

1st, ´jaheira can beat up viconia´ or vice versa doesn´t really settle which char is more useful... but at least keep it fair. if you give vic crom faeyr (which korgan could use to much better effect), at least give jaheira a girdle of frost giant strenght and either gnasher and belm or the impaler. in any fair contest where tank capability is concerned, jaheira would come out victorious (especially as you can have iron skins up 24/7).
nevertheless, unless you place great emphasis on frontline capability, i think viconia is the more useful character to have. viconia is a better healer, a better summoner (some people might disagree here but skeleton warriors are better value for level than anything else), a better mage-killer (who needs insects if you have complete magic resistance, which viconia can get quite easily) and better artillery support (druids lack regular offensive spells... flame strike, glyph of warding and fire storm on the other hand are lethal).

Why worry about whether Jaheira is better than Viconia? There is no question such as "who is better?" if you simply pick whomever makes more sense for your party. My main character, a neutral good mage, is involved with Jaheira; however, my other character, a lawful evil assassin, is involved with Viconia. Any other choice would not make sense, from the perspective of keeping in character.

I agree with you, Azred. Viconia vs. Jaheira is, to me, very much an apples and oranges kind of affair... Viconia is an evil priestess, and is useful in that context. Jaheira is a multiclass tank/druid, and it is in that context, taking into account all of the things that she can do, rather than gutting her character into the efficiency of any one facet, that Jaheira becomes incredibly useful.

Further reasons, for you powergamers out there for whom the "role" in roleplaying is spelled with two l's...

Summoning: animals, elementals, woodland being for auxiliary support spells.

Combat: has been gone over. Obviously, she can't use Crom Faeyr. Duh, she's half druid. There are other goodies available. Ability to get scarily good with club or spear is a handy thing. Can also be pretty nasty with the right staves.

Spells: (not counting cleric-accessible spells, which is unfair to her, but which have also been gone over numerous times)
Entangle -- often overlooked. Doesn't disable missileers or spellcasters, but keeps tanks out at a distance where they can be conveniently filled with arrows and cloudkill.
Fire Seeds -- not Melf's, but occasionally very useful.
I find Call Lightning generally useless, except when I know I'll be outdoors, and especially outdoors with lots of opponents.
AbsoLUTELY my MVP.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> I agree with you, Azred. Viconia vs. Jaheira is, to me, very much an apples and oranges kind of affair... <hr></blockquote>

I like apples better...does that mean I like Viconia better? ^o^

This should end the fighting. I sat play it multiplayer and make all six of your guys. Heh...I left jahiera in the cage and the ONLY character I have picked up is Anomen. I LOVE HIM.

"Ah, how the blood quickens knowing that evil is so near!"

Jaheira is a funny character to play with. First, I beat the game with Minsc, Aerie, Nalia, Jan and Anomen. Now I'm playing with Jaheira, Yoshimatsu, Keldorn, Viky and Edwin. Jaheira's romance -as I heard- is very interesting it's worth of trying for. But best romance all times and the best NPC is no doubt Aerie.

Big plus to Jaheira is that she can shapeshift. But I like more TRUE clerics than druids. Viconia is the best cleric in game, but she's alignment can be problem when U are having opposite alignment with all your other party members. But who cares?

Opposite alignment doesnt matter usually... But some characters have personal grudges with Viconia... like Keldorn 4 instance attacks her.... or mayb its the otherway round.... But the big problem with having a good character with Viconia in the Party is Reputation... If it gets ova 18 she breaks and leaves... so you have to occasionally kill someone if you are doing all the good qeusts.... and killing ppl can lead to all sorts of trouble, you can also rob some1 when you know you arent going 2 successfully rob them... though the result is close to the same thing as murdering them :(

Alignment is definitely an issue for my party, as my main character is neutral good, with everybody pretty much occupying the upper right quadrant of the alignment-chart square. But again, Jaheira's neutral, so that's not a problem.

The biggest problem I see with Jaheira from a strictly roleplaying perspective, is that some folks may not want to handle campaigning alongside a character who has literally just lost her husband that week.

I agree with Azred, it depends on the makeup of your party. I have used both NPCs and liked both of them in my various parties.

Both are very dangerous with slings. Jahiera's insect summons etc is a nice way to neutralize mages. Viconia levels up quicker to get more spells.

I usually have Jaheira going back and forth between her sling and either Blackblood and a shield (the one that gives protection from charm etc) or whatever staff I have. In my current game I went to Watchers Keep before going back to chapter 3, so Jaheira has the Staff of Ram and Spectral Blade at her disposal. =)

Viconia is a nice backup tank with Crom Faeyr but her low HP does limit the use here.

I can't fault using either of them... =)

I used to like using Jaheira in BG1, but now that she is a romance option in BG2, I usually don't take her.

It just kinda wierds me out, since she was mentor, and bit of a mother role to my characters in BG1... To turn around after Khalid dies (Yes, I liked Khalid, darnit) and sleep with her is just icky.

Reeks of a Edapis (sp) complex to me... a psychologist's field day.

This is just with Male characters, which I normally play with. The couple times I have played a female character, Jaheira has accompanied me. ;)

Just finished the game with Jaheira in my group. She is mean as hell. She might have lower hitpoints then Minsc and Keldorn but her AC?? Oh boy. She kicks ass.

Jaheira really begins to piss me off atm, with her stupid harper problems, aargh!!!!!!

Well im playin a game with her again at the moment and I must say that I never really looked at her Ironskin ability.... IT KICKS ASS!!!! The Fact that she has Low HP is a bummer but her AC is really good... so when she has some good armour on and she casts ironskin her enemies miss her wuite often (good AC) But the few times they hit her its absorbed :D .... its great!!!! And once you get Spectral Brand in ToB she is a Killing machine :D :D :D

This topic is good... so **bump**

jaheiras combat prowess is very impressive indeed, with a lot of options for exactly how you want to take advantage of them.
i prefer to give her doublewield unless i have valygar in the party because belm effectively doubles the benefits you get from it - 4 1/2 attacks per round with gnasher (or blackblood if you prefer) and belm in combination with iron skins enable her to outfight any other npc apart from a buffed-up haer´dalis, but unlike him she is a force to be reckoned with even without magical assistance.
or she can tank like no other with great ac and iron skins... or she can do considerable damage with the impaler (although doublewield is better if you can spare a strength modifier)

the main gripe i have with jaheira is that she hits the xp cap with natures beauty or other lvl 7 spells just around the corner.