Hi!

I was wondering why so many here talk about using small parties (3 or 4 members). Of course the game could get more challenging, is that the reason?

I thought of playing a smaller party too, but: they don't level up that much faster do they? After looking at some exp/level table i think they will only be one level higher (3 members) than a complete party, later in the game the difference would get higher till maybe 4 levels at most (at levels between 30 and 40). So, faster leveling up isn't really that fast? Or did i understand something wrong?

Oh, i forgot: is it more fun playing a smaller party? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 05-11-2004, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: killerTeddy ]

After doing many 4-character parties, i recently started a 6 set. It was ridiculous easy (in expert ironman). So it might be fun for me to play a party of 6 with 'bad' professions, but a 6 high party with powerful characters is just boring (IMHO)

With a smaller party for the same amount of experience you will achieve higher levels. But the biggest difference will be that you will get much more skill increases.

And it gets exponentially better the smaller the party. And Solo's don't even have to worry about Insanity or Turncoat!!!

Generally, you may want to try a small party after trying a standard 6 once or twice. Small parties are harder at the beginning but you are forced to make everyone count, making them stronger. It's not for everyone. You miss some of the banter and have more restrictions on weight and armor/weapon choices. I like them because you need to employ more strategy to get by and battles can be more intense. But I still go back to 6 now and then for the variety.

I find it more fun to focus on developing a few characters. Usually in a 6 char group, I often find myself setting the bishop to cast a spell, but 75% of the time, it is unnecessary because the samurai (@SPD=100) has already finished making sushi.

I did two different 4 character parties recently. It seemed a little cozier with less waste and overlap. Everyone had a job to do, and there was no room to be lazy. With 6 player teams, I found there to be a lot of slack where a lot of times at least one character's efforts are constantly irrelevent or wasted. Like everyone above me mentioned, it also works the individual characters harder and it develops their skills more. I would say that a 4 player team is about 90% as powerful as a 6 player team because of this, and a lot more fun since you need everyone to contribute.

When I played 4 in my party it was always the most fun. Faster lvl up etc. My fovorite was my 4 Lords; don't ask what race, 'cos I havn't played in months.

yep. definately for the difficulty...
then the extra exp (never hire npc's) then the extra stats.

Even a party with 4 chars has to work that much harder to survive, as the numbers of opponents never reduces. more training more skillpoints.

Solo's are the best. Assuming they survive they gain points like crazy, level up insanely fast to 30+ in no time!

Some of my fave games have been:

4 chars: Lord samurai ninja and monk - all hybrids, all good fighters and spellcasters.
3 chars: 3 samurai... had to be real careful with healing, but boy could they dish out the damage!

Single ninja, fighter, lord or bishop.

The single bishop can be very fun, especially if you do 1 level of thief training and get stealth up to 100. magic galore!
The 4 player party of lord samurai ninja and monk was very rewarding also, everyone had a job to do, every player could cast magic, all magic realms were covered, 2 had stealth, 3 could heal, all could do party buffing to various extents.
Only thing it lacked was music and gadgetry, but i dont use them anyway

[ 05-13-2004, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: MasterPooBaa ]

A 4 hybrid party was also one of my better parties. I went with a Ranger rather than a Ninja so lockpicking suffered.

I also went with Atlus 7's build for the Battle Samurai using the Staff of Doom rather than swords. I know you lose the sword bonus but on the plus side you don't need to build the Dual Weapon skill so more points to allocate on your magic skills.

I've used the same character for other parties and he/she has never let me down.

I'm also experimenting with a 4 Alchemist party which was tough at first, lots of running away. But, as you know, Alchemy is easy to raise mixing potions but it's so boring doing it with four Alchemists. I'm at level 7/8 now and aim to change one over to a Faerie Ninja once she has the Portal spell and am debating whether to change the other three once level 18 is reached. Thinking that hybrids have those 5 levels to do before they get magic back so possibly a priest and mage to get all the buffs. Oh, I don't know, what do you think?

If you switch to get new spells, you'll have to wait to get enough levels in the new class to cast that class' exclusive spells. (eg eithg more levels for Soul Shield) On the other hand, the skill you've got in the Realms will carry over, so you should have plenty green.

Thanks Scatter.

Yes, that was my concern. 18 levels as an Alchemist and then having to wait x number of levels as a Priest to get Soul Shield (7-9 Priest levels is it?) and the horrendous experience needed to get there especially as I've finished the game on levels 21-24 in the past.

Perhaps change to the Faerie Ninja as planned after she gets the Portal spell, keep an Alchemist as an Alchemist for the rest of the game, and class change to Priest and Mage when they get their Portal spells.

I'm only suggesting this for the missing buffs. Am I worrying unduly? It's just that I have nightmares about the Psi Sharks et al and no Soul Shiled protection....

Actually, just realised I may have highjacked this thread and should have started a separate thread. Sorry everyone.

Well, not too much of a hijack--still taling about small parties...I've finished a lot of games without Soul Shield, some even without any magic protection other than objects. It's a lot easier with at least Magic Screen, and i'd recommend making a Priest right away for that, not waiting for Portal. If i understand correctly, Schools are cumulative for shared spells, so your Portal should come as soon as you have 11 levels as any caster.

Thanks for all the tips so far.

@Dedzy: Your argument of waste and overlap sounded most convincing. Everyone in the party should really be needed, so now i will try a party of 4.
I don't want to use this stealth-training thing but rather let difficulty stay at normal, should have the same or similar effect. Maybe a bit of training for the bishop. And thats my party so far:

dwarven lord - will dual wield 2 maces
mook fighter - with one big sword
faerie bishop - for lots of magic
??? - someone with traps and locks

I really want someone with the traps-locks-skill, any suggestions? He could stand at the front with dwarf and mook, or at the center with the bishop, too. There are so many possibilities... (a gadgeteer, adding some good ranged combat abilities [img]graemlins/2gunfire.gif[/img] ? maybe not a ninja, i already have 1 faerie [img]graemlins/fairy.gif[/img] , and a ninja without this CC?)

Oh, and i don't like this new way of class changing (in wiz7 it was so much better...), so i will stick with what i have at the beginning.

No problem :)

[ 05-14-2004, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: killerTeddy ]

Killer Ted, if you haven't tried a thief you are in for a pleasant surprise. If you try one for the 4th position, you will find they have the best combat skills next to a fighter. Their backstab multiplies the damage (2x then 3x then...). They have stealth and best lock skills. I use them like a fighter up front. Although their armor is less they make up for it easily. If you want magic, too, try a ninja. They take longer to build but lots of kills later. BTW - If you have a bishop, you will have to force the ninja to use magic in battle to be any good at it. It's too tempting to have the bishop do all offensive magic in combat for a small party similar to yours. Hobbits and humans make excellent thieves.

Edit: fixed a hoobit

[ 05-14-2004, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Ziggurat ]

Thanks Ziggurat,

but i already had a rogue (with a light sword [img]graemlins/knightsmile.gif[/img] ) but i just decided to take a gnome gadgeteer - i never had his best gadgets...

Go for it! I know, so 70s

OK,let's say you want a hard but doable small party. I recommend the 4 elements first, such as lord or valk, monk, samurai and ninja (or ranger). You will find this is very hard but rewarding. Or drop the monk, add a thief, or drop the thief and add a bard, and drop the samurai and add a gadgeteer or whatever. You can make them work. The idea is they will have to work harder but will go up faster if you can survive. I love all permutations. Guess I'm weird. C'est la guerre!