After getting tired of spending turn after turn in combat running into melee i decided to make a specialised ranged party. But after some early difficulties (arnika road, i like to try and fight my way through ;) ) i thought i'd make one with enough natural melee capability to hold its own. So:

Fighter: not sure on race, he'll be up front taking the flak, but using the biggest bow i can find, along with dual maces, and raising dex/sen more prominently and his ranged skills

Mook ranger: self explanatory ;) , bow and one of those nice swords

Fairy ninja: dual throwing and CoC, probably dualing that with something, possibly rod of sprites or similar, depending what i find

Hobbit bard: raising speed to get soul shield up early if necessary, going bow and maybe fang and shield for melee. Probably going on a side/back to focus on ranged and instruments, melee only if engaged (instrumesnt make her vulnerable with lost stamina)

Hobbit gadgeteer: back/middle focusing on omnigun and gadgets, my lock and trap, mythology and artifact person due to the few skills she needs. Raising sen and dex then speed and str.

Elf bishop: speed caster, mainly buffing and restoration.

ill be training all three alchemcy skills in the arnika bank to avoid excessive investment, due to having to raise melee a little as well as pumping ranged. Using spells to identify as much as possible. No autoswitch weapons on FN, ill uncurse after each fight and switch only when all monsters in melee. Engaging from range wherever possible, melee as a last resort.

Any comments/suggestions?

edited for spelling and stuff

[ 03-16-2004, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: GMK ]

CoC is cursed no? so no ranged possibility if you use it... (except if you want to throw bombs/use artifacts).

Oh, I see you plan to uncurse before each fight. I don't know - if the plan was to avoid the running and moving to get into close combat range, I'm not sure I'd want to uncurse before each combat, equip during combat, and then have to move anyway to use the CoC.

Maybe you really want the FN with the CoC, but if you've played it before, why not try a hobbit or other race ninja - there are many good options with the ninja for close combat - and the thrown criticals are pretty fun I think, even from close range. Plus, with your party, you'll kick planty of ass without the CoC.

[ 03-16-2004, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: petertmorgan ]

im planning to use CoC as a backup weapon, wasteful i know but will kick ass if they do decide to get up close and personal. Im not sure how i would work out, i envisage throwing for a bit then once everything has closed up to melee distance manual changing weapons to help finish them off. But maybe id be better dumping CoC and going with a stronger race. Hobbits do look good to be fair.

Make sure you hire out a couple mules to tote around all the ammo you plan on using.

Yah, what Babar said: I'd go for at least one more than the Gad in Modern (start with a Musket as soon as you get one--or Rattus' Zip Gun) and then cheese-reload Jan-Ette until you get a Phaser. (hasn't taken me more than a dozen tries, and it's the fastest reload-to-get-something in the game). There's at least one more person who won't need ammo...and the Ranger's instawhack and the Fighter's KO both work with a Phaser.

I think, ammo isn't that problem. I once played a pure fighter party (no mages, two bards, one Gadgy, a rogue and two fighters ). All had ranged weapons( two modern, one sling , two bows and one 3-X-Bow).

There are many shops that sell ammunition and you have some portals later so IMO it's easy to restock. ( my party always had to run ). And with different kinds of ranged weapon, you don't lose too much ammo in a fight.

Your party is a strong one, so another point is: they can carry much.

[img]graemlins/monster5.gif[/img]

[ 03-17-2004, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Loudhy ]

IMO, ranged is severly underrated by many players. My favourite stategy is to bombard the meanies with disabling/damage spells until I've had enough and simply pick 'em off with ranged weapons when they're weak and feeble. If I do it right, I don't waste too much ammo and I don't deplete my mana reserves either, but best of all, the meanies are all dead before they can do anything serious to my hit points.

Sometimes, melee is pretty much inevitable, especially against bosses, so it pays to have 1 or 2 guys that can hold their own toe to toe. Melee parties are good at killing a few meanies really quickly, but I've found that a ranged/magic party is faster when I'm facing several meanies at once.

BTW I think Rangers are simply killing machines. Ranged criticals occur, on average, about twice a battle (for me anyway). No other profession I have played gets more crits than that except maybe a faerie ninja.

I always play with a ranger, for the scouting mainly but i normally go melee/magic and he's the only ranged buy that can compete for a slot (other than gadgie half the time). Thanks for the hints, i'm making my bard a modern weapon specialist to free up the strength slot so she can go for speed (soul shield) which not everyone else needs. Also switching to a hobbit ninja and going pure ranged.

Ill keep you informed of anything unforseen that comes up, provided anyone cares [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Have you thought about going Sammie instead of Fighter? Give the Sammie Bloodlust and then use magic for ranged attack on him. With that, you get good Sword skill, Critical, Beserk (due to Bloodlust), and Magic in one package.

Never really like samurais. THe wizardry spells always seem quite weak when you get them 4 levels late, as there are quite a lot of direct damage spells, and after that a samurai is just a weak fighter. It seems a bit much to try and raise sword, dual (or shield), CC, CS, wizardry and the realm skills i need (i'd probably only go 3/4 though) but that doesnt conpare favorably with fighter mace/dual, CC, RC and bow. Spells like paralyse could be useful but my bard gets a freeze all instrument and gadgie can use duct tape relatively early on single big meanies. Plus the fighter has those extra hp i will need to hold off tough meleer's as im not raising vit so i can focus on dex/sen/spd/str. Anyway i started now [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Got to the end of lower monastery, only lost 3 hp and that was aginst gregor. Its helped that i can kill monsters from a range and they are mainly melee. Im not looking formwards to juggernaughts etc. on A-T road though...

I haven't played a plain fighter yet, but my current Samurai is so good, she revoked my Lord's spanking license. Between the fireballs and lightning strikes hardly anybody else gets a chance to kill anything.

My ranger keeps running out of ammo, which is why I suggest mules. But seriously, you're going want some STR esp. if you are playing on expert where you have a hard time hitting the broad side of a barn.

Actually, I rather have a Sammie with Bloodlust over a Fighter anyday. Sammie has a lot to offer, especially with instant wack (CS). In truth, your SP build for your fighter isn't that much different that a Sammie, and lets face it, there are plenty of training spells you could use to increase your realms (Light, Magic Screen, Knock-Knock, etc). As such, for levels 2 - 4, basic distribution of SPs would be something like 3 to Sword, 2 each to CS, CC, and Dual/Shield (I prefer dual as shield really doesn't offer you much). Then at lv 5+, you switch to Thaum 3, Sword 3 (till 50, then switch to 2), and 1 each to CC, CS, Dual/Shield (switching to 2 in CC once Sword hits 50). Likewise, Sammies don't have that many HPs less than a fighter (a Dracon Fighter has about 18 HPs, a Dracon Sammie has about 16 at first level). Also, your attribute point distribution between your ranged Fighter and a Sammie would be very similar (Spd/Sen/Dex until those are maxed).

ive never really cheese trained a sammy's magic before. Thats probably why they always seem weak. Hmm. Without magic they are a fighter without berserk (can use BLust but loses the choice to use *real* weapons ;) ), with CS, but less hp and damage output, and slower levelling.

Looks like one slot in my next party is taken already [img]tongue.gif[/img]

One other thing I neglected on talking about the Sammie...Lightning Strike. Imagine 4 Beserks in a round (using Bloodlust). Even with a few less HPs, that Sammie will kill the baddie quicker than the Fighter will (even without Instawack).

Of the close combat hybrids (Sammie, Lord, Valk, Ninja, and Monk), Sammie is probably the top and could go toe-to-toe easily against a Fighter. Fighter may tank better, but what need of you of a tank if you are killing more quickly?

Then there's Muramasa...

(rats, i'm editing everything tonight)

And a Sam with *Light* and Assassin's Cap is kinda amusing--almost all the Lightning Strikes get interrupted by instawhacks, or death by damage.

[ 03-18-2004, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Scatter ]

Although in my experience lightning strikes are quite rare.

To get regular lightning strikes (1 every 10 attacks or so), my samurai ends up being every monsters number one target (low AC) and requires a lot protection spells to stay alive. Plus, on expert mode, it's really hard to hit with bloodlust, particularly with a lightning strike (which lowers your to hit chance even more), even with an over-the-top sword skill. Many times I have had six misses on a lightning strike with bloodlust, or only one hit.

I don't understand why you have to sacrifice AC. I usually get about that many LS's when i'm at just under 1/3 weight capacity and that leaves room for Camail +2's or a Flak Jacket and Mesh Pants and even archery equipment (Sam-special armor is too heavy and not worth it).
I usually go 3 Dex, 2 Str and 1 Vit until Dex = 100; then 3 Str, 2 Sen, 1 Vit. (Hobbit)
Speed comes from magic.
And if you Super your Sam, it gets even better.
I never use Bloodlust with any character.
Also Stealth helps keep you from being the target all the time--just one level as Rogue or Ninja and a little training fiesta.

For one thing, I don't do training outside of casting a few spells before camping (and I only camp if helpful/necessary for other reasons), so dual classing for the sake of stealth wouldn't get me very far. So, it's not that the AC is so horrible, it's that my other frontline characters either have stealth (rogue, monk, ninja) and get attacked less than the samurai even if overall AC is similar or worse, or require the heavier armor not to be the target themselves. My biggest challenge from this came by playing with a samurai and a monk in front. In mid-game, even taking off the monks armor (leaving him with moderate stealth, maybe 50-80, a few magic items for an AC of maybe 10-12), the samurai with the AC of 15 was still getting attacked two or three times as often. And on expert mode you get hit a lot with that AC

Now, if I had put three points into Dex every level I would have opened Reflexion sooner, but I was going for Powercast, so I was limited there. Of course, I was not unhappy with the samurai - she was by far my most deadly character (particularly after upgrading to Fang), and I found the powercast went up nicely and was effective throughout the late game.

GMK,
My first group finished with a Gadgeteer, and I was pretty pleased with the results. Since you are focusing on ranged damage, the Gadgeteer's ability to build doubleshot and tripleshots xbows add a lot of punch to ranged fighting. Like others have said, that sucks down a lot of arrows. But oh well, once you set a portal on the Trangaporter (or especially Ferro), you can go back for supplies pretty easily.
It's not a pretty sight with tripleshot crossbows unloading all those lightning bolts per round. Body parts everywhere. You will use them up faster than Ferro will sell them to you, so I switch with Hunter Quarrels and a Strong Bow/Armor Piercers.

Have you considered a monk with thrown criticals? I know the range isn't quite as good as bows, but that instant death is a nice factor. And you also get psionics, one of the books I like the most. But I wouldn't pick RFS. What is it with everyone's love affair with RFS? A monk without psionics is completely handicapped.

[ 03-25-2004, 03:37 AM: Message edited by: Dedzy ]

Monks doesn't get thrown criticals. Only onja does.

ive got a hobbit ninja for the thrown crits [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Now on AP and the party has kicked ass all the way through (except for a small time between arnika and martens bluff-i hate that swamp). Fighter leads in kills with just over 400, ranger, gadgie, ninja all close behind in that order, bard and bishop below 96 and 37 respectively (i usually use buffs/heals with them). Id reccomend a ranged party to anyone with the patience to sit back.

Fighter: mauler/DE/arablest
Ranger: Giant sword/tripleshot (for max crits)
Gadgie: omnigun/instakill gadgets
Ninja: anything i can find to dual throw
Bard: shield and instruments
Bishop: SoD

Fig/Ran/Gad all getting regularly 150+ damage per round. ninja less but ranger and ninja a heck of a lot of instakills :D

GMK I almost have the exact same party. Instead of Gadgie I have a Sammie. This is my second time through and this party is twice as tough at 18th level than my first. My ranger uses a polearm and does some massive damage per round with it. My fighter uses the giant sword. My ninja uses dual swords and throws medusa stones mostly with wrist rocket and knocks people unconsious very very often. I use the bard the same way as you just to haste and bless then maybe a pandemonium then he has no stamina left so he shoots the strong bow. Bishop is an absolute bomb thrower with very high mental magic. Ego whip hurts very bad. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Someone mentioned earlier about Sammies not being worth it. My samurai has just as many kills as my ranger and my fighter and he has only died once more than my fighter. He is a felpur and he lightning strikes prob once ever 5 rounds. He uses fang right now and an enchanted washikucallit. This is a very fun party i would highly recommend giving it a go. I rolled into Rapax Rift at level 11 and fought for weeks game time and still have not left at level 18. [img]smile.gif[/img]