Hey guys

I have looked around and tried to find my answers. I find a lot of info but some goes against each other (to be expected).

What I am looking at is

Fighter
Valk
Rogue
Psionics
Bard
Ranger/Priest

My questions are

A. Ranger or priest.. what would fit better?
B. Good party or any tips?
C. Advanced: Any masters got tips on races to use and what places would be best to give the points to?

Thanks for any help

The choice between ranger and priest is quite a hard one. If you want to fnd all the nice tems in the game then go for the ranger, but if you want a healer (although later you can get an instrument which casts heal all) and later a very powerful offensive caster possibly (see another thread for discussion about the priests potential) then the priest is for you. I myself would use both of them, one of them instead of the valkyrie (since her spellbook also overlaps with that of the priest), since you can pick up one of them in Arnika if you want to. But feel free to do whichever you like.

The party composition seems quite good to me, the rogue and the fighter are the best meleers in the game, the bard can get to, be powerful in close combat also, and you an find some cool instruments for him later on. The psionic is also a powerful spellcaster, though towards the end of game, you run into too many high resistance monsters, so will probably need powercast above 60 to be effective. The ranger is the best in ranged combat and searches for hidden items, while the priest just keeps your party alive. I think it is quite a good party, and I don't think it should have problems during the game.

For races I would choose, though some here might disagree:
Lizardman Fighter
Hobbit Rogue
I don't know what to take for a valk, since I've only played vi as a valk, but probably human or drakon
Female Hobbit Bard (for lockets of reflection and other only female items)
Elf Psionic
Elf Ranger / Dwarf/Elf Priest

Thanks for answering Dplax

I will take that advice and drop the valk. I will go with both the ranger and priest.

Giving me

Fighter
Rogue
Ranger
Psionic
Bard
Priest dwarf or elf, what do you prefer or is it a toss up?

I also prefer one human (only one). What class do you think would take the less hit with a human in it?

welcome mordenheim. i'm not a master, but i have no shortage of opinions (even some that contradict myself ;) ). taking your questions directly:

(my wife says my posts are too long, so here's a reader's digest edited reply)

a) ranger. (note: dplax's advice is better. it's nice to see someone think outside the box.)

although the valk covers off the priest book for you, they wont develop it quickly or to a very high level, like the priest will (small tick to the priest). however, you currently have no one covering the alchemy book. since mixing (an ability conferred by alchemy skill) is a great way to get cash, and your party has quite a few characters who can use some pretty expensive equipment later, you'll want access to the money. your ranger will do this for you (big tick to the ranger).

b) yes, good. but there's no bard parties - it's how you play them [img]smile.gif[/img]

it's a melee heavy party, with only one pure spellcaster. the big gap is no access to the mage spellbook. in addition to being an excellent attacking book, it offers two of the best buffs in the game: missile shield (the best, imo) and enchant blade. for a melee party, these spells would be great additions.

for my style, i'd go mage instead of psionicist. but that's just me.

c) there's definitely no right or wrong to this one, but some thoughts...

fighter - dracon. the lizardman has better starting stats, but i dont like the big penalty to mental resistance. the dracon's a bit more balanced. i prefer strength and speed for beginning development. by doing speed, instead of dex or vitality, you open up extra swings per attack and better initiative to strike early.

valk - human. this gives you the best balance for supplemental spell casting, which you'll need to do since no other character covers the priest spellbook (assuming you go ranger). i'd put a bit into intelligence at the beginning, but not too much. put the lion's share focus on strength and dex.

rogue - hobbit. the king of rogues. 60 bonus points - drop 20 each into strength, speed, and dex. then pump strength and speed to the max, then dex. arm them with double stilleto (daggers) or sword and dagger and watch the carnage. they're the best whirling dervish in the game.

psionicist - my experience with psi's is minimal, but i'm sure others will have good advice.

if you go mage, i'd strongly recommend elf. run up intelligence to the max and pump up speed then senses (to maximise initiative). a little vitality later can help their carry capacity (for throwing stones)

bard - the mook bard is one of the game's true powerhouses. eew has done some great detail work on their development, so i'll ask you to look up his posts. in short, pump strength and dex, build them like a melee'r. but use their music as much as possible, and in particular take advantage of the hasting drums when you get them.

ranger - again, mook is a good choice, but i like gnomes. pump dex and senses early, then add strength and vitality. dont forget to mix potions whenever you get the chance, to build their alchemy without having to put points in at level ups.

(whew, glad i cut that down [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

edit: dplax and i must have been writing at the same time. edited to acknowledge his excellent advice.

[ 10-14-2003, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: sultan ]

if you want to cast offensively with the priest, and they only get offensive spells later in the game, you'll want to go elf. dwarves start with too low of intelligence to make effective attacking casters as priests.

for those 6 classes, i wouldnt recommend any humans. but if i had to pick one, i'd make it the ranger. hybrids have much broader learning requirements, making the balanced human stats well suited.

Hehe happens some time. The advice you give is good too. And missile shield and enchanted blade will be missing, though I think (not too sure), that there is an instrument for one of them.

the bard gets magic screen, and bless, and haste. but i think those are the only buffs. perhaps you're thinking of a gadg item? i think they get armorplate and guardian angel, but i dont remember missile shield or enchant blade.

however, you can buy scrolls of missile shield and enchant blade, if you are patient and wealthy. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Thanks a lot for the reply Sultan

No doubt in a game with so many choices (I peeked and got scared [img]smile.gif[/img] ) that there will be differences in opinion. Having never played a Wizardry game, I thought it best to seek advice.

What I am sure on

Fighter
Rogue
Elf Mage - I would feel more at home with a mage then a psi. I thought a psi might have been a had to. If I can get away with a mage then I would prefer it.
Bard
Ranger

my last would be either a priest or valk. I take it a priest is similiar to a cleric? a valk is similiar to a ranger in the sense of low to medium magic with melee possibility?

I would prefer a priest. Do you think my class above will be able to handle the loss of the valk?

Appreciate the answers guys

no worries, mordenheim. happy to help. it's good to know you're new to the game, as our recommendations, and reasonings, are likely to change.

with those five, i'd definitely add the priest. between the priest and the mage you'll get all the good buffs in the game, and the ranger and bard will cover the only other ones that matter.

this party has good balance of magic and melee and defense, so it's a good one to test against your style of play.

as a new player, the best advice i can give is focus. develop each character with a definite vision in mind, and some idea of how you expect them to work together with the others. it's not easy at first, but with a bit of trial and error, you'll find what you like and dont like, and you may just become as fascinated with it as many of the rest of us.

and if it doesnt go well, dont sweat it. take what you've learned and start again. i must have run 2 dozen parties before i actually finished the game. some got all the way to the peak before i gave up, others didnt make it out of the monastary.

good luck - and keep us posted!

For sure and thanks again

Anyone else totally dig the look and feel of Wizardry 8? Unique and I really enjoyed the few minutes I spent to take a swim in the water [img]smile.gif[/img]

A pity you can't swim in the ocean outside the monastery.

not too big a spoiler, but you will get a BIG chance to take a swim later. hehehe.

Kudos sultan. Mordenheim the other thing you should consider is positioning of your characters.

If you go Fighter, Ranger, Bard, Priest, Rogue, and Mage; then use this formation->

Front: Fighter Rogue
Outside: Ranger Bard
Middle: Priest Mage


If you go Fighter, Ranger, Bard, Valk, Rogue, and Mage; then use this other formation->

Front: Valk Fighter Rogue
Outside: Ranger Bard
Middle: Mage (and maybe even Valk)

The idea is that you surround the magic caster(s). This way their low vitality doesn't become subject to close range (melee) attacks. Also the reason you COULD put the Valk in the middle, is due to extended weapons. The Valk has a bonus for polearms (which are extended weapons). Even from the middle, the Valk can be affective for close combat.

My personal favorite magic caster is the Bishop. Because you are trying to learn the ropes, the Bishop probably isn't the right choice for a beginner (I think sultan would agree). However, the Bishop can learn every spell (all four books/ Psi, Priest, Mage, and Alcem). I takes four times longer, but I believe it is worth it (only do it when you think you are comfortable with the game).

As for sultans suggestions (which for the most part I definetly agree with) for classes and professions this is what I think...

Fighter/Dracon or Lizard
Valk/Human or Lizard
Rogue/Hobbit (definetly)
Mage/Faerie or Elf
Bard/Human, Elf, Mook, or Hobbit
Ranger/Human or Mook

The reason a Lizard/Fighter is most often used is for the Lizard's other resistances. Yeah it has a couple negatives but so does the Dracon (and the Lizard has more resistances than the Dracon). However I still agree with sultan... Dracon/Fighter is my favorite (seeing how you get 60 points to use!).

Valk is a toss up. What ever suits you better (negatives but strength with Lizard or well rounded no resistances Human).

Rogue is always a Hobbit (60 points). I mean you could use use a Faerie but Hobbit is definetly the best choice.

I do think that Faerie is the best choice for any PURE magic caster. The Faerie has many down falls but makes up for them with magic ability. It can't carry much, low HP, can't uses specific weapons (or armor). The positives are high MP, natural MP regeneration (regenerates faster than anyone), and a lot of starter points (50 for a Faerie Mage!!!) An Elf is a good choice but I still like Faerie/Magic Caster.

A Bard is, like the Valk, up to your liking. I use Huamns, Elves, and Hobbits. I usually use Mooks for Gadgeteers (by the way, a Gadgeteer is something you should look into using because there are a lot of gadgets to be use and found in wiz8; and by the way, why don't you have one in your group?).

Mooks are naturally good at using ranged weapons (they make good Gadgeteers and Rangers). Again, I don't use Mooks as much. Humans are the better choice. I honestly think that the Humans are the best characters because they don't have negatives (but don't have MANY positives either). They are the most well rounded and their skills are much higher in the beginning (compared to the Mooks).

My personal best combo was...

Fighter/Dracon Human/Ninja
Human/Ranger Mook/Gadgeteer
Hobbit/Bard Faerie/Bishop

Well that's my 2 cents... I hope that I helped. GOOD LUCK!!!

[ 10-15-2003, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: allstargoaly ]

great point about character placement, ASG. both solutions you present are viable. the other one that people talk about, and that i'll frequently use, is no one in front, 4 or 5 across the middle, and 1 or 2 in back.

the benefit to this is that everyone across the middle can attack the front, and the people on the sides can attack two sides (the front and their respective flank) with short range weapons. the down side is that the character(s) in the back are facing the wrong way - so when you get attacked by enemies with extended reach, the spellcasters in back are penalised for being attacked FROM BEHIND.

for this party, i would recommend:

front: n/a
middle left: priest bard
middle center: ranger
middle right: rogue fighter
back: Mage

although the rogue and fighter are the best two damage dealers in the game, the reason to put them together is that the rogue's stealth will make whoever they are paired up with a big target. the fighter gets the best armour and hp, so makes a natural choice.

regarding bishops, i've been a huge fan of these since my first party, but they do take a fair bit of attention to develop well. it took me about 3 goes before i got it right. some recent testing suggests that relative experience level between caster and enemy plays a large role in spell effectiveness. if this is true, it puts the bishop at a disadvantage, particularly towards the end game, as they are up to 3 levels behind pure melee'rs (eg rogue or fighter). however, i'm not convinced this is actually as important a factor as i thought.

i do disagree slightly with the assessment of faeries. their armour and weapon limitations mean little to a mage or psi, but for a priest or alc this restriction is a bigger issue. further, a larger party can compensate for their carry capacity penalty if there's only one, but in smaller parties, or large parties with multiple faeries, this can be a bigger issue. finally, that nice set of robes you can buy later in the game more than compensates for the faeries faster mana regen, making elves, in particular, better in the long run. (the amulet of nebdar offsets this, but only for a single faerie.)

having said that, i support the choice of faerie for the mage, even if i would personally prefer an elf, because it's a larger party with 5 non-faeries.

generally speaking, there are no bad choices for races or classes. however, some races work better with some classes when you intend to build them in a certain way. so, if you like to plan ahead, consider what "kind" of priest you want, for example, and then choose a race that will suit that build strategy the best.

going with the priest example, if you want them to be a powercasting, offensive magic juggernaut late in the game, i'd recommend an elf, who starts with a high intelligence, can build to powercast quickly, and can still take advantage of the priest's armour and weapon choices. BUT if you want a front-line bashing priest who supplements the party with buffs and healing, i'd pick a more physical race like dracon, who gets high strength, vitality, and dex from the start.

on the other hand, as a new player, with little knowledge of the possibilities, you will probably look at it the other way: i've selected these races for these classes, now how do i build them most effectively? in that case, look at the race's natural strengths and try to take advantage of those with your classes abilities.

for example, if you pick a mook ranger, they have a high starting strength and senses, and senses is important for ranged attack. so you may develop those two stats to the max, and then add some dex later. the high strength gives you the option of picking up a melee weapon later, too, if you so desired...

but if you picked a gnome ranger, you might choose to build on the high dex and senses from the start, making them a truly awesome bowman, and then building up intelligence later, to help with their alchemy and spellcasting. but there would be little opportunity for them to contribute to melee in the end, due to lower strength and ignoring of melee skills.

as eew astutely points out in another thread, wizardry is as much about character creation and party creation, if not more, than it is about the story and the fighting. as such, there's tons to play with, experiment with, and learn about. sometimes that learning will be tough (what was i thinking running a six-dracon party?!) and other times it will be joyous (so THAT's what everyone's been saying about how cool bards are!).

i hope you'll find it as much fun as many others have.

Though it is possible to finish the game and win with any number of different combinations of parties, my suggestion for a first time player is to use a party that is really balanced. The first time I played wiz 8 I got totally fed up because my parties were all lunch to the many different monsters and enemies in the game and I ended up uninstalling the game and didn't play it again for nearly a year lol

I found this forum and a few others, read a lot of really great advice and tips on building effective parties and decided to give the game another try. Wiz 8 is now my favorite RPG to date.

I chose to use balance for my first party this time around to make it easier for me until I learned to play and build my party members more effectively. Having said that, I would suggest going with 3 characters for melee, 2 pure casters and a ranger for your first run through the game. You can use the hybrids but know that they take much longer to get their levels and a few of them can be tricky to develope properly. Taking pure casters will allow you access to the more powerful spells earlier than if you used a hybrid. Most definitely take a ranger the first run through as they have automatic search function so you won't miss out finding any of the really great hidden items in the game and also the ranger gets criticals with his bow starting relatively early if developed properly. My rangers usually start getting instant kills around level 6 or 7.

The best melee characters in the game are The fighter (that's a given lol) The rogue and the bard (if developed properly)The bard gives you the added bonus of another caster as well using his/her instruments.

I would suggest going with a mage rather than a psionic,epecially for your first run through. The mage and priest have all the best magic buffs. I'd also use a priest rather than the Valkyrie because she will develope her magic much slower and you won't have access to magic screen and soul shield until probably mid game or later, unless you focus on her magic rather than her melee skills and doing that will make her a weak fighter. Valkyries, Lord's, Samurai's, ninja's, monks and the ranger do not gain access to their spells until the 5th or 6th level which is why I suggested taking pure casters the first time through.

You should have no problems with your current party make up, just be aware that the hybrids level up slowly and if not developed properly they can be poor fighters and even worse casters lol

great party suggestion, starfire. i would add that the player could also experiment with his first hybrid classes by adopting vi and rfs their first time through. although not the same as running your own, the added muscle can help survivability, add colour to the storyline, and start to give some flavour to the classes not represented.

the only caveat i would add is that, although it is balanced, it may not be to everyone's liking or style.

spellcasters require a great deal of active managing to both develop and use in combat effectively (personally, i didnt see the worth of magic til i figured out how to run a bishop, then worked BACK to pure casters - how weird am i?).

also, the bard in particular confounds some players early on (including myself!), until they get the hang of it.

but with lots of help available here, hopefully we can make everyone's earliest experiences fun and rewarding enough that they try again with what they've learnt!