I've seen a lot of talk about dual weapons. I really find that the two handed stuff does a better job. Are people getting this skill for another reason; like extra attacks or something?

It may help with characters, such as the Samurai that have critical strike, because it gives more chances, but I'm not sure. Other than that it's a matter of damage.

There are no really great secondary weapons, but enough pretty good ones to equip two or three characters. Unless your Dual Weapons Skill is high enough, you can actually get more damage from one excellent weapon.

There are some good two handed weapons, aren't there?

In addition, shields are very powerful, defensively, and can change an otherwise limited character defensively, such as the Bard, into a solid tank. Besides the AC, it blocks most attacks that hit, outright, when Shield Skill is high enough (like 75+).

All three are good choices, actually, depending upon your party.

[ 06-20-2003, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: EEWorzelle ]

Here's what my Lizardman Fighter looks like without weapons:
STR 100, DEX 105 (from Mantis Gloves), SPD 93 (Mantis Boots), Sword 81, Mace 41, Dual Weapons 77

With Excaliber:
2 attacks x 1 swing x 20-90 damage = 40-180 HP per round + 2 chances at Excaliber's 5% Instant Kill and 25% Hex
Total: 40-180 damage, 2 5% IK shots, 2 25% Hex shots

With Fang + Diamond Eyes:
Fang: 2 attacks x 2 swings x 22-53 damage = 88-212 HP + 4 chances at Fang's 10% kill
Diamond Eyes: 1 attack x 2 swings x 11-35 damage = 22-70 HP + 2 chances at DE's 20% Paralyze
Total: 110-282 damage, 4 10% IK shots, 2 20% Paralyze shots

I don't know my fighters stats. exactly, they'e about lvl 17 right now. One of them is doing about 100-160 per hit X2 per round with the "Sword of 4 Winds". Yes it's cursed but who cares. The dual wielding weapons fighters can't even get close to that. Now, maybe I havn't found the best one-handed weapons yet?

Sword of the 4 Winds is an excellent sword. The only better 2 handed sword that I've ever used is Excalibur.

I personally prefer to arm my fighters with a good one-handed sword (Fang, Ivory Blade, etc) and a shield (Dragon Kite is the best I've found).

obviously personal preference (and roleplay) as well as the luck of the draw in what weapons you find all can play a part. One thing I rarely see mentioned but which is a factor for me is that two-handed weapons are usually pretty slow -- their weapon initiative can be as bad as -6 or so.

That has a couple of distinct disadvantages for me:

(1) Bad weapon init can make the character slow enough that he tends to take his swings very late in the round, giving monsters more of a chance to hit and later in the game letting my faster characters "clean house" leaving nobody within close range to kill. At least with extended range weapons, like polearms or the giant sword, that's not a factor -- which is why I do tend to use at least a couple of those in every party.

(2) Weapon init (but not personal init) is a big factor in determining when you unlock your second and third swings of each attack. All other factors (e.g. speed, character class, weapon skill, etc) being equal, a superfast weapon like bloodlust or a stiletto will give you 2nd and 3rd swings several levels earlier than a superslow one like excaliber.


And then of course, there are a couple of other factors I tend to consider:

(3) Once your party is reasonably well-developed and has found good items (like the sword of 4 winds), a typical "balanced" group is more than a match for most of the opposition. At that point, matters of style and personal preference tend to count for more IMHO. Whether your fighter does 300 or 350 damage to the opponents in one round -- a spread of 50-- just isn't as huge a difference when he jumped from doing 20 to 70.

(4) Depending on things like profession and personal tastes on training, your front line warrior types may be pretty well maxed out long before you're ready to finish the game. If you're like me and you enjoy being able to keep increasing skills, dualing gives you a bit more to work on. And in that vein, more swings for less damage gives you more chances for skill increases than fewer swings for more damage...

Just another 2 cents...

[ 06-21-2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Morlac ]

'k..

..nominee for the "shortest post award"

I usually go for dual weapons with:
Samurai, for more critical chances.
Thief. Dualing thieves daggers he does lots of damage.
Ninja, for throwing (critical chance).
And one fighter type character in the party, for Diamond Eyes (Fighter/Lord/Valkyrie). I don't think other secondary weapons are woth it (maybe canezou dagger?)

I ust started a new game and I can't remember where I got the sword of 4 Winds. I thought it was feom Nebdar; but I hope not 'cos she didn't drop it. I'm tinking it wasn't her 'cos I think I had it when I got to her.

According to Jack Bullions Page, the Sword of 4 Winds is a random drop in Mt Gigas, from "the chest" and from Umpanis (assuming , I guess, you would want to fight them). It doesn't say what chest, there is one by the exit to upper Mt. Gigas.

Hmm, I don't remember it being there and I know I didn't fight any Umpani to get it? I may have another look around Mt. Gigas

IIRC, I've picked up the Sword of 4 Winds in the pressure plate room.

Building on Morlac's post, if I run a party of 6, I like to have two fighters up front. What I find particularly effective is have one carrying a sword with excellent initiative and one carrying a sword with an initiative penalty. The reason for this is the first fighter sometimes takes out an enemy, another enemy steps up, and the fighter with the initiative penalty takes out the second enemy. This is nice when it works out.

Actually as tuckyboy has pointed out - a low initiative is VERY usefull in this respect, otherwise what happens is that you simply loose the first turn most of the time in most battles because your turn has lapsed before the monster has gotten close to your party. If you have a ranged party (or magic casting party) then you typically want to strike first. Of course if your melee'er also utilizes ranged weapons then you could simply take a few shots the first turn and hack away the next (assuming the monster charges - and most do). But of course if you utilize the swap weapons method then you won't get in the far greater damage potential of a first melee attack. Additionally, you may not even get the chance of utilizing this method if your melee'er uses a cursed weapon. (In this line of thinking I always recruit my melee'ers last in my party and I don't boost the speed attribute until vitality, strength, and dexterity are first maxed.)

One more thing should be added on here, extended weapons versus "regular" weapons. Extended weapons have several advantages to front-line melee'ers. If the monster stops short in its charge to you then you have a greater chance that you will get in your first strike (and its often that the first strike will be all you'll need if berserking). Additionally if the monster has extended weapons capability (say a curae crab) AND the party member that it charges to has an extended reach weapon (usually your front-line melee'er) then it will often stop at just the reach of your front line melee'er. This is particularly advantageous to preclude that monster from extending into your party and popping a character that has much fewer hit points and a far worse AC.