What would you like to see in Wizardry 9 -- assuming Sir-Tech decides to do it (or some other gaming company)?

I'd like to see the following:

-A Construction Set that will ship with the game and that will allow you to create your own dungeons, towns, quests etc for playing in the game, plus customise the game itself in all sorts of ways, say make items in shops cheaper etc :D (Morrowind's already going to give us that).

-Being able to create your own special spells and items in the game (the Elder Scrolls games already allow that).

-A Fly spell. ;) (Plus being able to jump.)

-Being able to toggle between 1st person and 3rd person view (whereby you'll see your whole party).

-Livelier and more populated towns and cities, in which there'll be at least some peasants or ordinary civilians going about their daily rounds etc.

-More things you can interact with, such as crates/furniture you can push around, windlasses you can turn, church bells you can ring etc.

-Full-body portraits of your characters, so you see how they look when they're dressed up in various ways etc (Daggerfall already has that).

-Less gore -- as in not having such things as your enemies splattering all over the shop when defeated (ugh :( ).

As for the story, maybe we can have something like this: centuries after the Ascension, the heroes-become-gods have grown corrupt -- power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely -- and the Cosmic Lords have prevailed upon you to defeat the corrupt gods.

Just some silly ideas. What do you think? [img]smile.gif[/img]

I agree, plus these features:

* The combat mode must change to real time. Turn-based in all glory, but nostalgia isn't enough when old games like daggerfall och wizards & warriors have real time combat modes. (Sir Tech's excuse that it's impossible is thereby proven wrong)

* Guilds, like a warrior´s, priest´s or wizard´s guild with individual missions and status. (The T'Rang and Umpani missions is a bit like this, but give us more!)

* Pickpocketing without "talking" to the NPC's -> The possibility to sneak up on and pickpocket a hostile NPC.

* Sex. When have we ever seen sex in a RPG? Still, it is a part of real life just like bashing 100's of monsters each day ;)

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Sex. When have we ever seen sex in a RPG? Still, it is a part of real life just like bashing 100's of monsters each day<hr></blockquote>

Uhhhh... How do you propose to have this implemented? Do you mean making it possible to let the human lord in your party propose to your elven Valkyrie and then see them make love from a 3rd person view? [img]redface.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by leuchovius:
I agree, plus these features:

* The combat mode must change to real time. Turn-based in all glory, but nostalgia isn't enough when old games like daggerfall och wizards & warriors have real time combat modes. (Sir Tech's excuse that it's impossible is thereby proven wrong)

<hr></blockquote>

Ummm.... Without the turn-based combat it'd just be a Might & Magic clone [img]tongue.gif[/img]

How about: "Choose either turn-based or real-time combat when starting a new game."

Too bad there never WILL be a Wizardry 9 though....

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Too bad there never WILL be a Wizardry 9 though....<hr></blockquote>

You reckon?...

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>* The combat mode must change to real time.<hr></blockquote>

This would guarantee that I’d never play the game. No offense, but I’ve seen far too many bad real-time games. In fact, I think I can honestly say I’ve yet to see even one real-time game which captured any of the depth or strategy of a good turn-based game. Why encourage developers to make more bad Baldur’s Gate clones?

And, for the record, I didn’t even like the infinity engine.

I'm another who would object to real-time combat. There are plenty of real-time games out there. And most of them require extreme youth, love of adrenaline rushes, and the hand-eye coordination of a Venusian octopus. Let's have some games playable by little aged ladies, Martian dwarves, and Cartesian thinkers!

[ 02-09-2002: Message edited by: Throg ]</p>

Yeah, I forgot. This forum is overwhealmed by old timers ;) .
Okay, but I still think the choice should be there. I experienced the realism in Daggerfall to be far better than in Wizardry 8. (although wizaedry is a better game alltogether)

Why not just keep the scheme STC implemented in Wiz8, you can chose realtime or turn-based at anytime during the game. I thought it was a great innovation, in this way, you keep both parties happy.

Those of the extreme youth, with the love of adrenaline rushes, and the hand-eye coordination of a Venusian octopus can have their realtime play, whilst us (ah-hem!) old-timers can plod along with our beloved turn-based attacks.

May the gods grant upon us a Wiz9 so we can continue to debate this well after the game has been developed and released.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

Actually, there is no true real time option in Wiz 8. Continous just keeps the turns coming in a lot like a Final Fantasy game (well the ones I've played since I haven't tried X and I am told the fight engine changed there shrug not very interested in it) in which your characters act when their turn comes but it is still just one acting at a time (only difference really is you can give orders at any time instead of only when their turns come up and have more flexibility that way). A true real time engine would be more like a Baldur's Gate game in which all the characters are acting at the same time and you would go bonkers if the pause key didn't exist.

You may want to try continous combat more once you get used to it; I've found it is a LOT more flexible than the phased option. During phased you'd say tell your wizard to cast a noxious fume but if the enemies acted before you thought your wizard would they could be out of the range of the spell. In continous since you can alter the actions unlike in phased mode, you could change the area where you centered the spell or do something else entirely.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>…most of them require extreme youth, love of adrenaline rushes, and the hand-eye coordination of a Venusian octopus…<hr></blockquote>

All right. You’ve touched on a subject near and dear to my heart, so anyone who doesn’t want to hear a rant should clear out right now. [img]smile.gif[/img] You’ve been warned.

I don’t think I’m an old timer. Heck, I only started playing computer games regularly maybe 5 years ago. And while I’m no longer an extreme youth, I do still have a love of adrenaline rushes. I probably play more first-person shooters than I do RPGs. My hand-eye coordination isn’t too bad either, though I don’t know how it would compare to a Venusian octopus… I’ve never played against one before (if you know one, however, let him/her/it know I’m always up for a game of Wolfenstein).

I still hate the infinity engine and game engines like it.

Why? Well, allow me to ramble…

I enjoy real-time play in single character RPGs. Daggerfall, Vampire, Morrowind, Diablo, Neverwinter Nights… Even games like System Shock, Thief, and Deus Ex. I’d enjoy any of these games (yes, I know that strictly speaking some of those aren’t “single character” and some aren’t even really RPGs, but you get the idea). Why? Because in each of those games I’m cast as the hero. I view the action through my character’s eyes, I see the danger and treasure as he sees it, and I act accordingly. The sense of immersion and the adrenaline rush is fantastic. But the key thing is that this is a SINGLE character game… The whole sense of immersion and danger comes from seeing things from one point of view… Being “in” the game, so to speak.

I also enjoy party-based turn-based games, such as Wizardry. Why? No, I’m not the central hero anymore… But now I get to play the tactician! I have to deal with the loss of a strong central character and the loss of immersion and fast-paced action, because in exchange I get a very complex tactical game. It’s like a game of chess… Wounded rogue retreats to rear, fighter moves to defend, bishop heals rogue, ninja attempts to blind… I get to see, move for move, how much better organized and tactically skilled I am compared to the computer. It has a thrill all it’s own.

Party-based real-time games, on the other hand… Well, in my opinion, they combine the worst aspects of both. I no longer have the sense of immersion or the adrenaline rush of seeing the world through my (one) character’s eyes, and I also lose the tactical complexity of my large, turn-based party. I no longer play the hero or the tactician. Instead, I play something like the coach of a football team during a game. I stand on the sidelines, hopping up and down, gesticulating wildly, and screaming orders which are either ignored, acted upon too late, or (about half the time) actually have some small positive effect on the outcome. In return, I gain… Well, not much. A poor man’s real-time strategy game, is about all.

I don’t want to play the chubby, red-faced, hopping man. I want to play the sword-swinging hero or the cold-hearted master tactician… and I really wish game developers would understand that the blurb reading “Real-time action!” on the box really holds no inherent value to me.

Does that make any sense? Or am I writing far too much far too early in the morning?

Makes perfect sense to me - many good points in that last post - well said.

Perfectly stated, Merulus.

*BG SERIES SPOILER ALERT*

That's why I've never finished Throne of Bhaal.

I played through Baldur's Gate (wound up having to cheat and summon Drizzt to defeat those two nasty skeletal warriors in the Thieves' maze though), Tales of the Sword Coast, and Shadows of Amn (several nasty battles in that one nearly drove me to insanity).

Don't get me wrong; I absolutely love the Baldur's Gate games, from the stories to the music to the range of interesting NPC's. For what the games set out to do, they do it well and I enjoy them (and the Icewind Dale and associated ilk, as well).

However, when the combat grows to high levels, I spend more time fighting the Infinity Engine than the enemies! There's so much going on at different initiatives that it's near impossible to pause and issue orders when necessary! In Throne of Bhaal, I made it to that monastery town in the desert after defeating Yaga-Shura and finally just quit from frustration. I'm sure I'll go back someday, but geez...

Again, I love the Infinity Engine games and what they accomplished for the genre commercially, but I still yearn for the games like Wizardry 8 which use modern technology but still keep some of the best elements of the older games (like highly tactical turn-based party combat). I'm having a blast getting my ass handed to me in this game. ;)

However, much like Merulus, I love the real-time single character games too (Ah, good old Daggerfall...). I'm practically drooling in anticipation of Morrowind, even though my GeForce 2 MX probably won't handle it as well as the screenshots look, because I'm eager to experience the immersion, action, and intricate single-character development that the game promises.

Ah, anyway... I think I'm growing too long-winded here. ;) Probably time for me to stop. Point is, much like the others have expressed here, I really hope that more RPGs that take a turn-based party-oriented tactical approach wait in my gaming future. In the meantime, I'm going to wring every ounce of enjoyment out of this game that I can.

Ah, back to getting slaughtered in the Trynton region (I never said I was very far into the game!).

Farscry (long-time reader, newbie writer)

Well here are my two cents.

I tend to agree with Merulus. A single hero game is fine for real time play but when controlling a party you either need to go turn based or use something like the Infinity Engine. Personally I prefer true turn based as that is what I started with for CRPGs. I think part of the problem with the BG and BG2 is not the Infinity Engine but the fact that higher level battles rely on casting the right spells at the right time. Most of time I have the feeling that my fighters are just there to soak up hits for my mages and priests. I will some day finish Throne of Baal just to see the end.

I also think that one of the advantages of Wizardy 8 was the fact you do not have to jump or move crates around to accomplish missions. That happens to be one of the things I dislike about Wizards & Warriors. I understand that some people might like this sort of thing, I just hope that the market does not move completely in this direction.

As for the Elder Scrolls series, I really enjoyed the character creation and the ability to make your own spells. However I after a while I felt the game was just repeating itself over and over again. The quests were basically the same and you had to do some of them to get enough exeperience to survive the main quest dungeons. I never played Daggerfall but I will probably give Morrowind a chance provided it will run on my PC.

Sorry for the long rant.

I really do hope there is a Wizardy 9 but the realist side of me unfortunately believes this is the end.