just curious, but how many people take the first roll they're given by the random generator as opposed to how many sit there and roll stats for 2 hours?

Along those lines, do you try to optimize your party, or do you keep in character and role-play the interactions?

I've seen a lot of posts here that deal with stat rolls, party compositions, and other subjects, and most deal with attaining perfection in one way or another.

I was just wondering if anyone ever plays a clumsy Halfling Thief, or a 9 INT mage, basically the accidental hero type. I mean, in all good fiction, the real heroes don't set out to become heroes, the mantle is thrust upon them, and their perseverance is what makes their struggles heroic. I guess the point is to ask yourself this: does your character have a flaw? If not, then he/she isn't very heroic.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kaleban:
just curious, but how many people take the first roll they're given by the random generator as opposed to how many sit there and roll stats for 2 hours?

<font color="lime">I roll stats for 2 hours.</font>

Along those lines, do you try to optimize your party, or do you keep in character and role-play the interactions?

<font color="lime">Role-play the interactions.</font>

If not, then he/she isn't very heroic.

<font color="lime">How about soloing? Or items restrictions? I roleplayed Robin Hood and his merry men( and woman) once.</font><hr></blockquote>

I never roll stats for more than 15 minutes. Usually I quit after getting 86.

After having powered through the game a couple of times, I'm trying a solo swashbuckler. It's awesome! waaaay better then just stomping through Faerun, blowing away the opposition like a minor god. Usually I just sneak right past the enemies...and if that's not an option, it's either "Run Away!" or open up a can of whupass with my katana. Roleplaying! Heeeellll yeaaah!!

I started out roleplaying, but the more times I play the more power hungry I have become. I'm soloing a sorcerer right now and I am doing something I have never done before. I am killing everything that crosses my path, just because I can. No one is innocent. I guess I am roleplaying a child of Bhaal. I always roll stats until I am comfortable with the results. I especially hate when I get ripped off on hit points!!!!

a mage of 9 intelligence CANT finish the game. he would have NO access to higher level spells, thus he would be screwed. you just cant beat Irenicus, or kangaxx, or firekragg with magic missles, and no way to defeat them otherwise.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Morgan_Corbesant:
a mage of 9 intelligence CANT finish the game. he would have NO access to higher level spells, thus he would be screwed. you just cant beat Irenicus, or kangaxx, or firekragg with magic missles, and no way to defeat them otherwise.<hr></blockquote>

He/she can, if he/she has a party. Now, if you were soloing, then it is a different story.

Hmmmm... can only cast level 1-4 spells, my goodness, an intelligent Bard would be a better spellcaster than the Mage him/herself.

I used the 9 INT mage as an example, just like a 9 DEX thief or a 9 STR fighter would work.

Of course, there are no real INT boosting items like Gauntlets of Dexterity or Girdles of Strength, so maybe a 9 INT mage was a bit unrealistic, but you all missed the point I was trying to make.

In fact, the immediate dissection of my message into how it could or could not work kind of shows how people are focused on stats rather than the game. You could take a 9 INT mage through the game, granted, he'd be somewhat useless, but perhaps he's a Child of Bhaal with a good heart, but the fight against his own nature has incapacitated him. The rest of the party is there to "buoy" him up!

Now that is true role-playing! Perhaps, once the mage completes some sort of objective, such as the party killing a Lich for example, some curse is lifted and he can begin gaining 1 INT point per week of game-time... The possibilities are endless through judicious use of Shadowkeeper, much like a PC taking intentional handicaps to increase "backstory"...

I see your point. I roleplay a lot. You should see my biography pages! But I still try to get the best stats. You can build a complex character, and still have him kick butt.(Sorry, Minsc)It just depends on how far you want to take it. I re-imported my Mage from my Final Save, and had her shepherd a green-as-grass group through. Fun! I felt like Gandalf with no Aragorn, just a bunch of hobbits.

I do not use Shadowkeeper.

Very good points, Keleban.

While I do take some time for stats, I'm not obsessed with it. Usually within 5 minutes I find acceptable numbers. If I want to dual class, sometimes it takes longer...but I know that eventually my character can get thru the game, regardless. There are potions, items, and of course saving games to try over and over and over ad infinitum. You can generate a character with lousy stats who can still beat the game.

I've done the power-thing: kick the crap out of everything via a highlevel party. Boring, IMO. A good mage can dance through SoA and ToB with nary a scratch. Sorcerers are so overpowered its a joke. So are monks and kensais. There are plenty of ways to optimize the game to your benefit, but I guess the question is: do you just want to kick the crap out of everything or do you want to have fun? And yes, I know the two are not exclusive.

Perhaps you could pick a character class and solo. That's what I'm doing right now: an elf swashbuckler. And while swashbucklers can max in dual weapon proficiency for direct combat, I haven't touched it. To me, it's a lot more fun to use Hide in Shadows and scope out the opposition. Maybe run right by em, maybe pick their pockets. Maybe get caught and run and hope I make it out alive. Hahahha...whooopeee! And while I have the abilities, potions, and equipment to take on pretty much anything- it's all in the planning and how you play your character. You can be subtle or direct...I guess I prefer subtlety.

IMO, it seems that thieves can exploit potions, items and abilities far more than any other class.

For instance: hide in shadows and pickpocket the opposition. Equip a thief with a decent bow and arrows of dispelling and biting. Suck down a speed potion and you can hammer most mages into the ground. And there are always potions of magic resistance if some silly mage wants to fight back. And scrolls for whatever...an antimagic scroll +use any item +carsomyr will make the toughest battle mage cry for his/her mommy. And you can always run away. No problem, since thieves aren't fighters. Or you can lay a mess of traps, taunt the opposition, and run away. The coward who runs away and returns to dance over an opponent's corpse is nobody's fool.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Yggdrasil:
For instance: hide in shadows and pickpocket the opposition. Equip a thief with a decent bow and arrows of dispelling and biting. Suck down a speed potion and you can hammer most mages into the ground. And there are always potions of magic resistance if some silly mage wants to fight back. And scrolls for whatever...an antimagic scroll +use any item +carsomyr will make the toughest battle mage cry for his/her mommy. And you can always run away. No problem, since thieves aren't fighters. Or you can lay a mess of traps, taunt the opposition, and run away. The coward who runs away and returns to dance over an opponent's corpse is nobody's fool.<hr></blockquote>

I am compelled to reply to this portion of the post. If you are playing against the computer Mages, then yes, you can pretty much screw them up since there is a limit to the AI. It is a different story against human-controlled Mages however.

Mr Slaytern: please clarify.

Very well, an indepth response.

Stoneskins stop arrows/bullets/bolts cold. Arrows of Dispelling will remove the Stoneskins, but that requires one hit. Thanks to that one hit, that means your Thief has materialise, thus triggering Contingencies and making the Mage use his Spell Trigger. Spell Immunity will be one of those in it, and by choosing immunity to Abjuration classed spells, your Dispel Magic is rendered impotent. Even if I did not have Spell Immunity triggered, any one of the following spell protections will render your arrow attacks useless. Mantle, Improved Mantle, Mislead, Shadow Door, Improved Invisibility, etc... ...

Okay, that settles your Arrows of Dispelling.

Ah yes, Potions of Magic Resistance. Is the Mage done for? Nope. Thanks to Lower Resistance, your Magic Resistance is a moot point.

Protection from Magic scrolls? Hey, I can always stay invisible and wait for ten turns; and forget about using True Sight scrolls with your Use Any Item ability, I can use scrolls too and cast Non-Detection.

You want to use Carsomyr? Well, I could taunt you with Protection from Magical Weapons and do a belly-dance for 3 rounds before casting Time Stop in the fourth round, but I think I will just cast Improved Invisibility instead and cast my Time Stop somewhere safe in peace.

I do not care about your Detect Illusions either, it can dispel illusions, but it cannot dispel invisibility.

Traps? You will have to make me chase after you first and that is highly unlikely, since I have nothing to gain by chasing after you. Mirror Image helps with most traps too.

Stoneskins stop arrows/bullets/bolts cold. Arrows of Dispelling will remove the Stoneskins, but that requires one hit. Thanks to that one hit, that means your Thief has materialised, thus triggering Contingencies and making the Mage use his Spell Trigger. Spell Immunity will be one of those in it, and by choosing immunity to Abjuration classed spells, your Dispel Magic is rendered impotent.

Is that true? Does Spell Immunity render you immune to Arrows of Dispelling?

Even if I did not have Spell Immunity triggered, any one of the following spell protections will render your arrow attacks useless. Mantle, Improved Mantle, Mislead, Shadow Door, Improved Invisibility, etc... ...

Not really. If I'm hammering you with arrow damage you can't can't cast spells, correct? I have plenty of Arrows of Biting, for example. Plus I have tuigan bow. 3 shots per round.

Okay, that settles your Arrows of Dispelling.

Ah yes, Potions of Magic Resistance. Is the Mage done for? Nope. Thanks to Lower Resistance, your Magic Resistance is a moot point.

I can always drink another potion.

Protection from Magic scrolls? Hey, I can always stay invisible and wait for ten turns; and forget about using True Sight scrolls with your Use Any Item ability, I can use scrolls too and cast Non-Detection.

Good point. Except you're presupposing the ineffectiveness of Dispelling Arrows and/or Biting Arrows. As I said, I have the tuigan bow. I also have speed potions. Heh...6 shots per round.

You want to use Carsomyr? Well, I could taunt you with Protection from Magical Weapons and do a belly-dance for 3 rounds before casting Time Stop in the fourth round, but I think I will just cast Improved Invisibility instead and cast my Time Stop somewhere safe in peace.

I do not care about your Detect Illusions either, it can dispel illusions, but it cannot dispel invisibility.

Actually, my detect illusions is a mere 20.

Traps? You will have to make me chase after you first and that is highly unlikely, since I have nothing to gain by chasing after you. Mirror Image helps with most traps too.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Hmmm...we should go one-on-one some time and test these theories

Hmmmm...

I guess you could just cast Remove Magic and then hammer me with attack spells

"Brave Brave Sir Robin Ran Away...."

Dude, the spell protections I mentioned are supposed to be in the Contingencies and Spell Trigger.

Any one of them, just any one of them will render your 2nd shot useless.

Oh, and if you keep insisting on drinking your potions, then I can always just Imprison you, or use Prismatic Spray.