Hmmm... it might sound better wiuthout the words ;)

Anyway, I just got back from seeing it... and its good. :D

Huh?? I didn't know it would debut, yet! I guess they let it out sooner in that time zone... (Jealous).

Ahhh, I'm a fan of Star Wars, but with all the hype everywhere, I haven't seen it yet and I already hate the damn thing! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<font color=skyblue>I think Ziroc would appreciate threads like this end up in the Movies Forum so as to build an interest in a forum that does not usually get much attention and has been considered for shut-down a few times over the years.

Redirecting this one now.</font>

I just got back.

As a life-long Star Wars fan, I really wasn't too impressed with this film. It was much better than Episodes I and II, but that's not saying much.

It doesn't hold a candle to any of the original trilogy. Except maybe RotJ, but that's just because it was a bunch of Teddy Bears.

I almost puked with all the anti-Bush crap in the flick.

I saw this film, (Just got back) and I thought it was fabulous. It blew I and II away. Anakin finally redeemed his acting ability. My only caution would be this (and I won't give away any spoilers) I do NOT feel like this movie is appropriate for young children. This comes from a mother who has let her young children watch all of the other Star Wars movies and all three Lord of the Rings movies. It's a great movie, but very dark and one scene in particular I found very disturbing.

That's my two cents for now. When we're discussing the movie with spoilers, I'll give some more input. :0)

~Salinye

I loved it. Maybe my expectations were low from episodes 1 and 2, but like Salinye, I was blown away. The effects were fantastic, Anakin was really good, and I liked the way his turn to the dark side was portrayed.

Its a good movie, I liked it alot myself, and didn't find the anti-Bush stuff to be so bad. Hayden Christensson really redeemed himself IMO, and I found that Anakin's frusteration was well portrayed. Who here was bizzarely looking forward to Anakin getting messed up in the lava fight? For some sick and twisted reason I was. Man, that ain't right.

[ 05-19-2005, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Sir Degrader ]

I forgot to mention, I never thought they would come up with a bad guy cooler than Darth Maul, but DANG General Grevious ROCKED! What a great character!

~Salinye

I love all this anti Bush talk about a story line that was set in place before the man was ever in office. [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img] The influence on George Lucas when he conceived it was the Vietnam War. He doesn't deny there are parallels between that war and Iraq, but the theme of the loss of freedom was already in place before EP I came out.

It is a common them to discuss in times of war -- giving up liberty for safety. It's been a common theme since -- well, since liberty, government, and war were invented. It's not Lucas's fault that a war started just in time to make his story line relevant. As for lines like Padme's "and this is how democracy falls" -- that is the theme, not a slam on Bush. It's not Lucas's fault that if given the choice between leaving a theme unsaid and cramming it in the poorly-written dialogue, he will ALWAYS choose the later.

Yeah, I don't think the movie had any "political" messages in it directed at Bush or the War. Infact, it never even occurred to me and I'm a politically minded person. I think the wheels were in motion for this long before the war in iraq ever took place and it didn't break character at all. If you read the books, it carries the same feel. :0)

My two cents!

~Salinye

I didn't notice any political statements... but a friend said that Anakin's line "If you are not with me, you are my enemy." is a quote from Bush. *shrugs*

After the second time through... I simply have to mention the worst lines ever. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I doubt this is a spoiler... but maybe you want to avoid it...

Obi Wan: "I can't bear to watch this any longer." had us in fits of laughter,
and
Padme: "Anakin, you're breaking my heart." brought a series of groans from the entire audience ;)

I liked it more the second time I saw it. I guess I'm just not a kid anymore, and the original magic of the series is gone. Once I accepted that, it was all good.

Its also a quote from other leaders in history. Bush is just simply the most recent person to use it.

Saw it yesterday and I thought it was ok. I'd agree with those above that I enjoyed it mostly because it wasn't as bad as the previous 2.

The film felt really...detached...to me. I mean, there's this galactic war going on and we see just the tiniest fraction and get no sense of the scale. Even the opening scene basically just followed the two Jedi. You got no sense of the relevance of ANYTHING else.

In the first trilogy, on the other hand, you got to see some of the supporting cast. When they got snuffed it meant something. When a droid or clone was destroyed, I mainly felt a twinge of curiosity as to what value, exactly, a clone's life might have. And why Jedi didn't seem concerned at all about it.

As for the political statements, I have a feeling that in 10-20 years the stuff we see now as contemporary, anti-Bush sentiments will be seen in a more general light. That is, the themes of Authoritarianism (Fascism) vs Democracy are a lot older than we are. So yeah, they may be part of the film because of current events, but they reflect a much more universal theme.

Hobbes and Locke are classics now, but when they wrote it was about contemporary concerns. And it seems that everybody is just hypersensitive about partisanship these days. If the film had opened in 1991, probably everybody would have noticed and ranted about the racial themes.

Zeitgeist, Baby. Zeitgeist.

<font color=plum>I saw the film yesterday and thought it was fantastic. I was especially impressed with the two final battles occurring simultaneously. GREAT EFFECTS!!!

I did notice some "political insinuations" in the film, then again the review posted in the other thread pointed them out ahead of time. Had I not read that review, I seriously doubt I would have made any connection between certain remarks being veiled pot shots at Bush. I definitely would NOT have considered Padme's comment to be aimed at Bush.

As for the two series, I liked both of them equally well. I though the first two movies in the current series were good films and fun to watch....and the "magic" of the original series has definitely lost some of it's luster. I saw Return of the Jedi on TV a couple of weeks ago and - to be perfectly honost - Mark Hamill's acting skills were wooden and his light-sabre skills were pathetic. He looked like a 10yr old swinging the Christmas-wrap tube instead of a master swordsman wielding a custom weapon (he supposedly made his own light sabre).

If nothing else, the athleticism and choreography(sp?) of the fight scenes in the new series is "light years" ahead of the original 3. Oh, the original series had it's shining moments to be sure...the original duel between Vader and Luke Skywalker was very well done, but many of the other fights Luke had were just pitiful. In particular, the one against Jabba the Hut and his minions when they take Luke and Co out into the desert to feed them to the worm.

As far as I'm concerned, the new series is just as good as the old series. The technology and special effects are much better in the new series, the dialogue and acting is about the same and I'm very impressed that Lucas keeps coming up with NEW angles on how to create dangerous opponents for the Jedi. Darth Maul used the dual light sabre and General Grevious pulls out an even BIGGER surprise. I was VERY impressed with that.

I will agree with <font color=white>Mr. Mopery</font> that the new series doesn't seem to capture the whole scope of the intergalactic conflict that the original series did. Then again, the events were already set in motion when Star Wars begins. This series was designed to show how the various characters - and especially Anakin/Vader - reached the point they were at in Star Wars. So even though there are galactic events occurring, the emphasis IS more on a few individual characters that are the key players in the coming conflict.</font>

Great effects, yes that's about the only good thing I saw in the movie. I went to see it last night, didn't have too high hopes for it (although I heard numerous people praise it, including here on Ironworks).

To come to the point, George Lucas needs to stop writing dialogue. Now. For the rest of his natural life. I think the movie would have actually been better if the dialogues had been cut from the movie and all we heard was some music and sound effects.
Furthermore, I thought the storyline, how interesting as the fall of Anakin to the dark side may seem, was clumsy and vague at certain points. Some scenes felt totally alien in the whole of the movie and there were numerous times me and my friends were looking at each other, thinking: "What the hell was that? Why did he put that in the movie?" This includes almost all scenes where Natalie Portman and Hayden Christensen make a futile attempt at forming a couple in love that is having difficulties in their relationship.

To get rid of some of my questions that have been haunting my mind since yesterday evening, I will formulate them here:
- Why did Anakin all of the sudden have no troubles beating Count Dooku in the beginning of the movie? And no, I don't count his Dragonball Z-esque remark of "I've become much stronger since last time". Dooku is a bloody Sith Lord and here he looked like a fumbling fool (well, against Anakin he did).
- Why was it again that Palpatine of all the sudden revealed he was the Sith Lord they had been looking for? It was not like he had anything to gain, Anakin obviously wasn't ready to be turned just yet.
- And can someone please tell me why Darth Vader had to strike such an inane pose and exclame a totally ridiculous "Noooooo" when he learned that Padmé had died. In thought he would actually attack the Emperor after that (after all, Palpatine had promised that Padmé would be all right when Anakin would master the Dark Force powers).

In short, I think Lucas tried to do too much in the last movie. He tried to end a conflict (the Clone Wars), he tried to show us some new exotic worlds ("What was the reason for showing Kashyyyk again? - Oh right, there was an attack there or something. Now that makes sense"), he tried to portray a couple in love with relationship-troubles (Padmé and Anakin), he tried to portray the rise of power of senator Palpatine and lastly he tried to portray the fall of Anakin to the dark Lord Vader.

So the story more or less sucked, the scenery sure as hell didn't. While I read some reviews that thought the special effects in the Lord of the Rings and numerous other movies topped the ones in Star Wars, I beg to differ with them. I thought the scene in the theater (with the flying creatures and the water-like floating balls) was quite a breath-taker, as was the canyon city with the giant lizard. Kashyyyk did very well too, although I had a more lush jungle world in mind after playing Knights of the Old Republic.

Kudo's also to General Grievous, possibly the most entertaining villain I've seen in a long time. I don't understand how he could've lost to Obi-Wan though.

The BEST part of the movie (yes, finally some positive news from my side) were the (dialogue-less) scenes of Anakin slaughtering all inhabitants in the Jedi-temple and the following murder of all Jedi ("Execute Command 66"). In these scenes the fate of the younglings was refreshing, but they seemed to use that for shock-effect too much in the rest of the movie ("Yeah, yeah, now we know already!")
The fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin was good, but nothing special. Haughty Anakin getting his legs and other arm chopped off was kind of an "eew"-moment, especially when he caught flame as well, but I liked it.

[ 05-20-2005, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: Link ]

<font color=plum>I have to agree with at least some of your criticism, <font color=white>Link</font>. I thought the two most awkward - and really POORLY thought out scenes - were the ones where Anakon faced Dooku and (later) Palpatin.

These are two of the MOST PIVOTAL moments in Anakins turn to the the Dark Side, but Lucas seemed incapable of coming up with any really plausible explanation for Anakin's descent other than "well that's the way it's supposed to happen".

When he has defeated Dooku and Palpatin orders Anakin to kill him, Anakin says "I shouldn't", but when Palpatin repeats his command, Anakin acts like "Well, OK...if you say so - SWIPE" Palpatin later reassures Anakin that Dooku was too powerful to live.

Alright, if you want to say that Anakin is already being influenced towards the Dark Side, then it is semi-plausible that he would give in to his desire to kill Dooku. But later, when Palpatin reveals he is the Sith LORD, Anakin AGAINS faces the same doubt (Gee, I really SHOULD kill you, but I'm just not sure). PUH-LEEEZE. IF Anakin can justify killing the Sith Warrior, he sure as HELL should have no problem attacking the Sith LORD. Remember, as <font color=white>Link</font> correctly points out, Anakin is not ready to turn to the Dark Side just yet and the Sith Lord is the Public Enemy #1 on the Jedi Wanted List.

Palpatin does eventually stumble into the dialogue about being able to save Padme' from death, but Anakin should have already been swinging his light saber at the guys head LOOOONG before the dialogue reached that point.

I will agree with <font color=white>Link</font> that Lucas needs to stick to directing and STAY AWAY from scripting. These two scenes should have been very dramatic points in the movie. Instead, they were blatantly awkward and childish in their attempt to explain WHY Anakin moved to the Dark Side. </font>

I haven't seen the movie yet, but according to the information in the video game, he has NO force powers. Big difference. Decisive difference.

Just came home from it, WOW, it was good, going in spoilerfree was refreshing, but I have come to the conclusion, Haydn Cristiansen is the worst actor on the planet...no scratch that... the whole galaxy... ever!

But he didn't ruin the film... (but it could have been so much better without him)


it had so many wonderful true Star Wars moments that I actually choked up in the end... when Ben delivers the baby... (sorry, couldn't resist :D )

Grievous was very cool, except the way he talked... and walked, looks ridiculous hunched over like that. but standing upright he lloked awesome.
At first I was a bit peeved when Padme dies, but then I had a bit of a revelation, all these years I thought when Luke asks Leia about her mother and she says she remembered only feelings, because she died when she was very young, she was talking about Padmé, but of course she was talking about her stepmom. silly me... [img]smile.gif[/img]


It's defenitly the best Star Wars movie after Empire

[ 05-20-2005, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: Jorath Calar ]

Does anyone know what Grievous' coughing was about?

--Kestrel--

He was injured in in the Clone Wars, which is also the reason he fought for Darth Grievous.

Oh yeah, I remember seeing that on the 'Clone Wars' cartoon now. His chest was chrushed right?

--Kestrel--

I have to agree with the sentiments about Darth Vader yelling 'NOOOOOO". I thought that added a little spice of cheese factor. lol My husband and I thought that scene would have been more impactful if his reaction went one of two ways, either more violent (ie. attack the emperor) or more inner pain (like dropping to his knees completely defeated in spirit as well as body.)

Regarding the "If you're not with me you're against me" type of phraseology (sp) that's also quoted in the scriptures and I don't think they were trying to pass on a religious message. I think some people are looking into the film looking for political connections that aren't there. It's unfortunate that the movie released during a period of time when much of the symbolism could be compared to some things/political platforms going on in real life.

**spoiler coming**

Regarding the massacre at the Jedi Temple, I actually thought they should have left the scene when he walks into the room where the children are hiding out. As someone pointed out it was made clear redundant times that he was killing younglings. I don't think we needed that scene to anchor the concept. I know they didn't show him killing the little kids, but the scene disturbed me none the less. That little boy was so innocent and turning to him for help and by that time Anakin's eyes were turning red and he was pretty much possessed by the dark side. As a parent, that scene was a little too much for me.

I know a lot of people won't agree with me on that point, but it's the only part of the movie that I wish wasn't there. I really liked the film and even thought the actor playing Anakin FINALLY did a great job.

Huge Kudos on General Grevious. He seriously was the coolest bad guy. I was almost sad when he had to die. I was a little disappointed that in the end Obi Wan didn't kill him in any cool jedi way, he just picked up a laser gun and toasted him. lol

~Salinye

I agree Salinye, with the children scene, should have been left on the cutting floor.

But the noooo! was kind of neccesary I think... every SW movie has a big NOOO! and they were running out of time... [img]smile.gif[/img]

(Would have been quiet funny to see Uncle Owen running off into the desert screaming NOOOO! when Obi Wan handed them Like, but... [img]smile.gif[/img] )

I think that its good that Lucas had the balls to show Anakin opening whoopass on those damn kids. Every bloody star wars movies after ROTJ had moments where I just wanted to kill every living being in that universe, but not this one, partly due to the unleashed rage of Anakin. I would make a horrible Jedi wouldn't I?

Looks like theres not much more to say about the movie besides i thought it was great.

The bit that cracked us up the most was at the end when the some guy (think it was General Organa) gives away the droids and tells someone to "wipe the protocol droid's memory files" [img]smile.gif[/img] .

At dinner before the movie we were debating how C3PO would come to have no knowledge of Obi Wan / Ben Kenobi, and as to whether George would plug this hole between this movie and A New Hope [img]smile.gif[/img] .

Grievous was great - especially when he went into light sabre frenzy. In my mind George delivered an entertaining movie, and he closed all the gaps that needed closing between the storylines. He managed the descent into madnes fairly well (let's face it - none of the 6 movies were under-endowed with wooden acting). The aging of Palpatine and the end of Windu was very well handled I thought.

Probably the only scene that was expected (seeing as Yoda set the scene for it) and never came was a little something between Ben and an etherial Qui-gon Jinn. Something to settle Obi's mental turmoil having trained and battled the new Sith Annakin, and indicating that the prophecy is not lost and they must look to the children for (dare I say it) "New Hope" :D

The "Nooooooo" thing was campy, but the badass cool part is when you notice Palpatine's smile when Vader is screaming.

Anyone here think that Kenobi was a bit pudgy? He looked better in the first and second ones IMO.

I think the beard looked a lot fuller, making him look a little more meaty.

They should have added a streak of grey or two in there. He should have aged a bit, but looked too much like he did in Episode I.

Still having not seen it, I must point out that it is apparently only 3 years after AoTC, meaning Ben would not be quite so aged. Remember there are about two decades between Ep III and Ep Iv/New Hope. From the "behind the scenes" footage available on the starwars website, I think Ewan did a good job impersonating the manerisms Alec Guiness brought to the role. He purposefully incorporated several mannerisms, such as the way Alec would cross his arms. Any assessment is, of course, limited by Lucas's pathetic attempts at dialogue.

...ah, and we separate the true accolytes from the rubes...

Wonderful movie. It had all the elements we SW fans wanted. Occaisional horrible lines (heck, they STARTED with "I've got a bad feeling about this"). Plain old bad decisions on the parts of the characters (remember Han running off by himself after the stormtroopers? Anakin shooting at the droids on Obi-Wan's ship was at least as bad of an idea).

It had the SW flare. It was a bad movie in the ways it needed to be a bad movie. It was amazing in the ways it needed to be amazing. It, simply put, was not overhyped a bit. It finished the series, and was incredibly well done.

I was dissapointed in Natalie Portman's acting in this one...but she's a good actress, so I'm gonna blame that one on directing, not on her.

So, here's the checklist:

Bad lines at the proper times: Check
The storyline was fully intact: Check
Lightsaber battles were cool: Check
Space battles were cool: Check
Visuals were unparalelled: Definitive Check

We all already knew the storyline, so if you claim the story sucked in this one, you obviously haven't been paying attention. It was already well established.

Political message? That's a bunch of crap. It really is. That kind of stuff has been the message of Star Wars since 1977, when A New Hope was released. It has been the central theme of the books for the past 15 years.

Let's face it...GW supporters are just crazy in that they think every bloody thing is an attack on their president. As an SW fan, it offends me that they litter my movie series with his rubbish.

Ewan MacGregor, though...he's the man.

Alderaan was really pretty.

Tarkin's appearance nearly made me cry with glee...but considering when the darn Death Star was supposedly designed, how old does that make Bevel Lemilisk??? He must be positively ANCIENT by the time he is executed (the last time) by the New Republic.

The movie was great. I'm going to watch it again in theaters, something I have never felt the need to do.

Watch it. Make your friends watch it. Make your girlfriends and boyfriends who don't like scifi watch it. If they question whether it was good or not, make 'em sleep on the couch for a week.

Oh, and R2-D2 was overly cutified...who else noticed the scene of it squeeling as it bounced down the incline, and thought to themselves "man...r2 is just here for cuteness"?

strange that a metal cylinder could be cute.

On that same topic, this was something that they must have deliberately worked at. I remember turning to the girl next to me during one of Padme's sections and saying "she is sounding just like Leia would".

Star Wars needs bad dialogue, I guess. It's part of the experience. So I agree with you. And at least it wasn't as bad as the Episodes I and II.

Storyline...well...intact? I suppose. But the story centered so much on Anakin and Kenobi that other parts seemed kind of useless. The battle for Kashyyyk seemed tacked on to me, for example.

Lightsaber battles...not bad. My girlfriend HATED the battle between Palpatine and Windu, though. She said it looked like two geriatric actors trying to pretend their bones don't ache.

Space Battles...battles? There was only one, right? And it was more of a "two jedi dodging stuff" scene than a real battle. There wasn't any sense of urgency or uncertainty on the part of the characters. Obi Wan is about to die and he's kind of nonchalant about it. I thought this part was kind of a let down.

...And by the way, how come two jedi didn't seem to care much that a massive, half-destroyed spaceship was headed for one of the most populace planets? And if spaceships take off vertically, how did they find a 12-mile runway to land said hunk of spacecraft on?...(yes, I know...just a movie)...

And lastly, unparalleled visuals. Yeah, I guess I agree here. But I'd have been REALLY impressed if they were unperpendiculared visuals.

If a 12 mile long ship needs to take off, its prolly from that landing strip.

The movie was stunning. I just loved on how little Anie died and reborn as Vader. And

*spoilers*
Anakin getting his limbs chopped off I was like "Hot damn!" same reaction to Dooku. Though it was cheesy that Anakin suddenly became more powerful the Dooku. And General Grevious was a massive disappointment. Do not get me wrong he was cool and all that but after watching Clone Wars on Cartoon Network you would get the impression it would take more than one Jedi. Obiwan was strong without a doubt but when he chops of Grevious's hands' one by one so early in the fight I was like, oh *uck no. And getting destroyed by a simple blaster *sigh*. And the Order 66 part just had me smiling.

Mr. Mopery, I was actually very pleased with the part about them landing the piece of the ship on that 12 mile long runway...it showed that Lucas put some thought into what kind of structures the planet of Coruscant, in order to protect it citizens, would HAVE to have...

...though a planetary shield (like is in place much later, according to the storyline) would have worked much better!

...Well, I'm off to watch it again :D

[ 05-21-2005, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: Ilander ]

It was also the first planet in the Star Wars continuum to feature an atmosphere! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I have a question for the die hards who may have read all the novels and may know...

Remember when Palpatine is talking with Anakin and starts speaking about his own master? He comments that the Sith Lord was so powerful with the Force that he knew how to control the midecloreons (yes I know I probably slaughtered the spelling of that word) and knew how to create life. So, my question is, was he eluding to the fact that his master had created Anakin in the first place? Anakin being the chosen one who was born with no physical father. Is this an insinuation or just a coincidence?

Bestow your l33t knowledge on me.

~Salinye