<font color=skyblue>I am fed up with the crap they put us through. A long time ago, I complained to the WOTC community about Ed Greenwood, which brought about a big notice to everybody there that I was angry about something, and even Elaine Cunningham jumped in to defend her "boss".

Now, I am at it again. I have pointed the fact out in public there that the publishing company is ripping off the consumers.

I own the books by Elaine C. called "Daughter of the Drow" and "Tangled Webs". Then, in anticipation of these two books becoming a trilogy, they rebound the first two under the title of the "Starlight & Shadows" Trilogy. Book 3 is due up soon. But they are releasing it as a Trade Paperback. A trade paperback is the exact same quality and make of a "mass paperback", but larger. It is the same size as a hardcover. Now, the book is the conclusion to this trilogy, but how can a serious collector say that this trade paperback goes on the same shelf next to the previous two? I cannot! It does not make it uniform. Well...maybe you say that I still have no room to rant, but now let me show you this. I have already exlpained that a Trade Paperback is the same quality as a Mass Paperback, only larger. It still has a paper binding cover that can crease when read. The price for Windwalker is $24.95. Compare this to The Lone Drow for $25.95 Hard cover! I mean...how the freaking flipping hell can we be expected to pay $1 less for a trade paperback when all of us clearly understand the value difference in paper and hard binding. Hard Bindings last because they do not crease. Why do they not release Windwalker as a Hard Cover if the price is the exact same damn thing?! One dollar is not differentiate the value in those two binding options.
I am pissed.</font>

I know how you feel... Sometimes I have to buy a series a second time to get each volume in the same format. I cannot stand to have differing formats within the same series.
When my ex girlfriend (many years ago) read my Dragons of Autumn Twilight, she damaged it severely (grr). To add to my annoyance, I had had the original cover art, but when I went to replace it, they only had the new covers, so I bought the trilogy again. (No, we didn't break up because of this, but it was close! Nobody messes with my books!)

I've got a copy of Windwalker, Larry, and it looks to me like a hard cover. The only thing I find that will crease, is, like you've mentioned, the paper binding. How do you distinguish the difference?

Windwalker is out already. I have it - the hardback that is. It's a detraction from the previous two to say the least, Cunninghma seems to have gone mad with this rushed addition to Liriel's life.

<font color=skyblue>Oh yea, I see what I did...I thought that it read April of 2004, but the info is as follows...

<font color=lightgreen>Item Code 179700000
Release Date April 2003
Format Trade Paperback
Page Count 352
ISBN 0-7869-2968-5
Price $24.95 ; C$34.95</font>

See? Even if I was mistaken about the release date, I still got the price right. Look at the cost for this format. It says Trade Paperback on thier website. Is this a misprint??? I hope so.</font>

Larry, if you're all bent-out-of-shape about the price, that's one thing. But, if it's a real hack-off for you that the books are going to not sit perfectly together on your shelf (yes, I've seen the picture), then maybe you are being a wee bit anal. No offense meant, Larry, most of us are anal about some things.

As for lovingly taking care of books, I used to do that. Now, I don't. The best books are those dog-eared tattered ones with writing and comments written all along the margin on the inside. A well-loved book is the most beautiful in my eyes. Only my legal library books look really good -- and that's just because they see too little use. :D

I agree completely. I wouldn't trade my worn-out, tattered, yellowing copies of LOTR, Dune, and Stranger in a Strange Land for anything [img]smile.gif[/img]

I agree completely. I wouldn't trade my worn-out, tattered, yellowing copies of LOTR, Dune, and Stranger in a Strange Land for anything [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]I agree too! There is nothing like a 'library-style' book. Theres a certain smell to it too. I do love the glossy covers of a brand new book but the older ones carry something intangible with them...

<font color=skyblue>Point taken, and if you know me at all, you will know that I openly accept open chastisement and direct dialogue. I am glad you chose to do so. Still, I am certainly not the only one that does this. On my post on the WOTC forum...a guy agreed with me on all points, including the price. My rant has two parts, and one is the size of the book, the other is that we are being asked to pay hardcover price for a paper cover! I mean, The Lone Drow will be only $1 more and it will definately have a longer shelf-life or preservation.
I must stand by my rants and be as anal as I can be. I am neither wrong nor right...it is just my opinion.</font>

<font color=skyblue>I am relieved in part to see this but it still does not put my mind to rest about the problem of the Trade Paperback cost. What happened to the old $14.95 tag? Why should this book make as much as The Lone Drow in Hard Cover will make?</font>

I know what you mean Larry in wanting to get complete series in the same format and preferably hardback. I had become a regular hardback buyer because the release dates are typically well ahead of the paperbacks and I don't mind paying extra for the quality of a hard back. Lately though, the market is being saturated with these trade paperbacks.

I hate the format and wish they kept to the formula of bringing out the hardback first. Forced to chose between waiting or collecting hardbacks I have stuck with buying the first available copy of books rather than waiting. Probably the best case in point is my collection of Robin Hobbs books :

Assassin Apprentice - paperback when I discovered the series
Royal Assassin - hardback (great quality)
Assassins quest - TRADE PAPERBACK - Arrrrrggghhh!!!

Ship of Magic - hardback
Mad Ship - paperback - American version - different artwork (I was travelling)
Ship of Destiny - paperback

The Tawny man - TRADE PAPERBACK - Arrrrrggghhh!!!
The Golden Fool - TRADE PAPERBACK - Arrrrrggghhh!!!
Fools Fate - TRADE PAPERBACK - Arrrrrggghhh!!!

Very much the mismatched set - 3 paperbacks, 2 hardbacks, and 3 trade paperbacks. it is irritating, but I survive. The option to wait months would upset me far more.

<font color=skyblue>LOl @ Davros! Hey...that is pretty funny. I am glad I have more patience than you...or maybe it is because I have more than 50 books to read to catch up so I do not mind the wait! Lol! BTW...a guy posted on the WOTC forum that said that the thing I am complaining about is a misprint and that it was intended to be read as Hard Cover. I am so relieved to hear that my beloved producers or whatever you call them are not evidently growing more greedy than they already are. I remember the days when I used to pay $4.99 or maybe $5.99 for a book, but now its $6.99 or even $7.99 these days! </font>

Well dude, converting my Aussie dollar, I get that the standard paperback over here costs $14US. The hardbacks often cost $25 US on release, but if I want to track down an older one then it can cost me $35-40 US.

So if your complaining about $8 US for a paperback - I don't want to hear it OK ;)

I don't mind the trade paperback format. What I especially like about them is sometimes they have good artwork. I specifically targeted the trade paperback versions of S. King's Gunslinger/Dark Tower series (still ongoing... ugh.. he sucks at closure) because of the artwork.

But, I do consider them a $14.95 book... *leaves* *checks books*

Now that you mention it, I notice that the 1st 2 books in that series were $12.95, the third was $15.00 in 1991 and Wizard and Glass, from 1997, was $17.95. So, yar, I guess the price is going up and up and up.

If you think about the number of hours of entertainment you get from a good book, is the price of 2 movie tickets really all that much?

I wasn't complaining about what I pay for the books TL - I am used to the prices over here, and buying anything is a choice process that is all about desire / need v resources. I know the price, I buy the books, I'm in control of the choice process.

On the price front I was simply pointing out to my good friend Larry that $8 US for a paperback would be quite cheap compared to what I routinely pay [img]smile.gif[/img] .

<font color = lightgreen>Wizards of the Coast.... [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] Oh, yes. I remember that company from my early 21st-century history book. They were the company that ruined the once-popular genre of fantasy-fiction set on the worlds originally developed by TSR and almost single-handedly drove all fantasy fiction fans to CRPGs. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

My dislike for WOTC began back in 1995 when they kept changing the rules and tournament-allowable cards for Magic: The Gathering every other week. [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] Did I just admit that I used to play that? [img]graemlins/1drool.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img] </font>

<font face="Verdana" size="3" color="#00FF00"> People like us made that company Azred so we are partially responsible for ruining the once-popular genre of fantasy-fiction! I still do play Magic from time to time, I got several people involved and kept buying cards up to 1999. I wasted so much money, it was kind of an addiction like smoking without the negative health consequences. </font>

[ 10-22-2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

MtG does have negative health consequences -- an social ones, as mentioned. ;)

I found all the card games offensive personally, as if we couldn't be bothered to use our imaginations and learn D&D anymore. Plus, all the munchkins that started showing up at Cons really irked me.

But, TSR was failing. Without WoTC to gobble it up, and then Hasbro to gobble WoTC up ("There's always a bigger fish" ~Qui-gon), there would still be a lagging stagnation in the game and the books. Hasbro's bankroll was needed to get the company actually producing things again. For a time, D&D was dying.

Personally, I probably like the old rules systems better. But, I will admit, the new rules make more sense in many areas and do allow more customization of characters. Personally, I find Ogre PC's silly, but what the heck.

Anyway, all that was so [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] I'm sorry.

Davros, I realized what you were saying -- I was just posing the question generally. What do your hardbacks cost in terms of US dollars, btw??

Hiya TL - hardbacks often cost a different amount because of the timing and the seller. If the book is by a popular author and is on a big general release (say a Pratchett or a Feist) then the price seems to start at $25 US of the release date and rise to $30 afer about 3 months if the hardbacks sold well (it usually stays down if it looks like the shop will get stuck with a lot of unsold copies). If the book is an American release well the price is considerably higher - $35 US - $50 US. For these I have to go through the specialty fantasy book stores.

Why do I opt for buying the American release of certain books? Mainly as I said before - there are some books I don't like waiting for. The WOT series is indicative of this. The options are to buy a hardback on the American release date for $45 US, or wait another 3-6 months for a paperback to appear in the general bookshops. I am yet to see a hardback release in the general bookshops of a WOT book.

I either lack patience :D , or am a wastrel - I haven't decided which it is yet ;) .

<font color = lightgreen>I know. There is no escaping the truth, is there? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

TSR had only themselves to blame, though. 2nd edition was done only to get Gary Gygax's name off the books, then they started running Faerun into the ground with tired plots that had no originality. *sigh* Oh, well...what's done is done. I still think it was ridiculous that the big-wigs made sure that their pet characters were protected, though (Elminster, the poor man's Gandalf wanna-be, is unkillable? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] ).

As I have said at other times, I always knew that GURPS was the best system ever designed. Isn't it an interesting coincidence that 3rd edition rules work similarly to Steve Jackson's wonderful creation? [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img] </font>

Well... a Forgoten Realm novel don't last a lot longer than a movie...

Or the Paladium System, personally I think every system (except d20) has earned a place in the gaming world, AD&D (or gurps if you prefer) for fantasy, White Wolf's storyteller system for modern, Alternity/Paranoia/shadowrun for futuristic games, it all depends on wht you want to shell out the money to play, even Magic: the Addiction has a place in my shoebox O' gaming (haven't bought cards since unglued came out)

Back on topic, I'm glad that the novel is available as a standalone, although I probably won't read it for some time to come.

I can go to the movies for about a dollar or 5 here.. Suffice to say that I *will* get thirsty hearing all those people around me slurping their cokes, and gnawing (yes they gnaw!) on their M&M's. When that happens I usually spend a dollar or 10 on a movie night. But that's when I go alone, though [img]tongue.gif[/img] ;)

GURPS was a decent system, but was too table-cross-reference heavy. Too many factors to account for in each roll, etc.

No one mentioned the best magic system ever invented -- Ars Magika. ;)