<font color=skyblue>1) She didn't really die, did she? Please let there be a good explanation to get her outta that!
2) What was the Professor looking out the window and smiling at?
3) What did Nightcrawler say as to the reason that he could not save her?

Now...for what I liked best...

1) The fight scene in the White House with Nightcrawler
2) The scene where Wolverine is saving everyone in the school.
3) The part where Magneto busts out of prison and the whole plot that made it happen.

That is all I can think of. I am ready to go to bed now. </font>

1) Beats me how they're gonna save her.
2) He could probably feel she was still alive.
3) He said that she wouldn't let him, apparently she could stop him somehow with her powers.

1) Absolutely, excellent fightscene.
2) Thought it looked cheesy, liked Colossus though.
3) Yearh, great special effects there.

4) Where the hell is Beast and Gambit, they're in the credits, but I didn't spot them in the movie.

MOVIE SPOILERS
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1. At the very end, they show a shape of a phoenix (very vague and hard to see) coasting along the water (thus the reason her eyes got firey every time she used her powers). A different version of the Phoenix Saga from the comics is probably coming in X3.

2. Exactly. If she is upgraded to Phoenix now, he couldn't help but notice her.

3. In the Phoenix Saga in the comics, Phoenix could pretty much do anything. She was uberpowerful (beat up Galactus at one point), could change matter around, go toe-to-toe telepathically with Xavier, etc. Thus, Jean Grey instantly fixes, starts up, and flies the plane; all the while she is holding back the flood.


1. It was a good fight scene. He was even more powerful than in the comics. I like the way he was teleporting around to confuse them and think that they were dealing with more than one enemy. They did a real good job with the tension in that scene.

2. I actually liked that scene. The only thing I didn't like is that no one could figure out to turn on the lights to mess with the guys with LI goggles. [img]smile.gif[/img] Colossus should have played a bigger part; it's not like they could have hurt him! But still, it was a cool scene.

3. Yeah, that was pretty cool. What made it cool was the way that Mystique set the whole thing up beforehand. She's even more lethal in the movies than she is in the comic book. Question is, if she can change her form, then why can't she hide scars?

4. Probably on the cutting room floor. The most you saw of either was when Mystique was pulling up names, and you saw "LeBeau, Remy" on the screen.

5. Was it just me or did Kelly Hu have just one line in the whole movie? Maybe her scenes are on the cutting room floor, too. Pretty cool fight with Wolverine, though a little too short.

I agree about the Nightcrawler fight - absolutely awesome. My only real problem with the film is that after that he really just faded out of the film as a character. Ok so he was still there, and he was still a major plot element but he really didn't actually do much. Mind you, neither did Iceman, Rogue, Cyclops, or Collussus in general. In some ways I think they overused some characters where a bit of a spread might have been more interesting. I'm thinking Wolverine and Mystique particularly here. Although cool, just slightly overused in my opinion. Maybe thats just me.

when we saw that eyes of jean grey had this fiery thing.. my friend and i smiled and said, "phoenix." :D can't wait for X3

A very different intepretation on how Jean became the Phoneix, but one that I am willing to welcome if done properly. [img]smile.gif[/img] For me, the highlight of the show was Magneto escaping from the prison. To quote my friend,

"3... metal... balls."

It was so cool, that describing it as cool seems to do it injustice. :D

I am in agony though... that GAMBIT IS NOT AROUND! ARRGGGHHHH! He is like my number one favourite X-Men. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Shoo! Shoo, Bobby! I want to see Gambit and Rogue together. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

There's a thread on GenDisc's too, but since it really belongs here, I'll cut-paste in my response from that thread:

I think they've done the current story better than the original. Magneto is much better this way than just some wacko trying to be eeevil. I really like his history as a concentration camp sufferer. It makes his stance on mutant issues much more understandable. "Get them before they get us."

Okay, there a spoilers coming up, big ones, I warned you, highlight text:

The setup for the Phoenix bit is cool (notice the red phoenix in the lake at the end). Jean's events in X-men 1 (which I absolutely *must* see again now) leading to new powers and all. I like it better than meeting some weirdo creature at the edge of the universe (which was the cartoon's version of events).

I like that they began this plot back in the first movie - remember Wolvie's weird dreams from the same set and scenery?

I want them to kill off some ones. Makes for a more realistic story. So far, Jean Grey is the only "good" mutant who has died - and we all know she'll be coming back - so it's sorta hokey that no one dies.

Thank god they left out Hank. He would annoy me completely.

Nightcrawler, and the opening scene, ROCKED.

Magneto's use of iron to escape prison beat the scene where Nightcrawler saved Rogue, IMO. It was very cool.

I didn't like mystique last movie - but LOVED her in this one. The flick-off while sliding under the door was classic.

All in all, a great flick. WOnderful special effects. Good story. Good themes (and pretty creative use of themes - we all know them because we read the comics, but on the big screen they're pretty creative).

One problem: my wife liked the movie, but supports mutant registration. She and I discussed this. She sees them as dangerous, with the few that seek to do harm and the many that inadvertantly do harm being VERY dangerous. She thinks they have an uneven playing field and that it is unfair to regular people.

...Not to mention the fact she destroyed an entire solar system in her Dark Phoenix period by sucking the energy out of a star (!), killing 6 billion on one of the planets in the solar system in the process. I doubt the Dark Phoenix saga will already happen in X3, though; bit too soon. ;)

...Not to mention the fact she destroyed an entire solar system in her Dark Phoenix period by sucking the energy out of a star (!), killing 6 billion on one of the planets in the solar system in the process. I doubt the Dark Phoenix saga will already happen in X3, though; bit too soon. ;) </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe my wife was right and they should be registered. :( No mutant's, or anyone's, liberty is worth 6 billion.

1) She is "possesed" by the Pheonix. that's why her eyes would start to show fire, and she was so powerfull. You saw the pheonix in the water at the end of the movie.
2)Probably because he knew she was still alive.
3)She was preventing him from using his power.

Edit: ARRG! I didn't read the other posts, and I was hoping to be the first one to post the explanation and look smart. [img]graemlins/verysad.gif[/img]

[ 05-04-2003, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

<font color=skyblue>Everybody look at Larry as he wets himself, after learning about the Phoenix and "Dark Phoenix". Is there any online links that people can give me about this stuff?

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Quoted by Nerull: "Question is, if she can change her form, then why can't she hide scars?"

My answer to that would be in the sentence she spoke as Wolverine discovered the scars...that nobody had ever scarred her like that before. I am assuming it has something to do with Wolverine's talons of adamite...

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as far as The Beast (Hank McCoy) he was on tv in one of the scenes, I can't recall which one (ooh great excuse to see the movie again)

<font color="#f683ad"> Am I the only person who not only noticed the vague Phoenix image on the lake at the end, but also that just before the water hits her, she bursts into flames?

IMO the whole Comic Book story revolving around the Phoenix was awesome and one of the best story arcs ever, I also liked several of the wolverine/japan saga's </font>

<font color="#f683ad"> Just wanted to share the one most awesome...moment in X-Men comics that has stuck in my mind for a very very long time....

In one book, Magneto and the Brotherhood are fighting the X-Men which at this point included Collosus.....and Pyro started flaming him up,(Collosus that is) getting him to the point where he was white hot, but apparently surviving it ok....when Magneto pulled two tankers of Liquid Oxygen in and slammed them on him....he didn't shatter the way glass would have but he was frozen in solid shape and had cracks and gouges taken out of him all over...that scene was really awesomely done....and it took quite a while for them to find a way to heal him...Im not sure any more but I think Illyana his sister (also later known as MagiK) used Magic to heal him.</font>

[ 05-05-2003, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Magik there were several references above to the phoenix shape in the water, I also pointed it out to RevRuby

It's such a joy to see a sequel that outdoes the original [img]smile.gif[/img] I'm hoping they give Jean a couple of movies as Phoenix, before starting the Dark Phoenix story. Nightclawer's big scene a the beginning was a great opening, but Wolverine owned when fighting off the spec ops guys in the Mansion. They never stood a chance [img]smile.gif[/img]

No, I don't think MagiK played a role in that storyline... They let Rogue absorb Peter's powers, making him turn back to human form (and Rogue, coincidently, temporarily in the frozen solid shape), and the Morlocks' healer immediately tended to Peter's theoretically fatal wounds and thereby saving his life.

<font color="#f683ad">Thanks for the refresh/recap Grojlach...man that was sooo long ago [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

<font color="#f683ad">Hey Morgie [img]smile.gif[/img] yeah I see everyone saw that phoenix shape in the water...but no one is talking about the frames where she burst into flames just before the wall of water collapsed on her.</font>

<font color="#f683ad">Hey Morgie [img]smile.gif[/img] yeah I see everyone saw that phoenix shape in the water...but no one is talking about the frames where she burst into flames just before the wall of water collapsed on her.</font> </font>[/QUOTE]Well my guess would be that would be her beginning the transformation into Pheonix.

Phoenix? Whats the Phoenix transformation...I'm lost.... :( [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Another way of looking at it: Mystique has shown the ability to change her form, but she can't become a completely new shape, like a blob or a square. If that's so, perhaps it's some quality of her skin that allows her to alter her appearance. That explains why the scarred area can't change - because they're damaged.

SPOILER
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In the comics, in perhaps one of the best known storylines in X-Men history, Jean Grey sacrifices herself by insisting on piloting a space shuttle containing the X-Men through a radiation storm back to Earth. They all figure her to die from the radiation. They were wrong. She comes flying out of the water as Phoenix, a massively powerful being with nearly unlimited abilities. At first, she uses these abilities for good. However, Mastermind and the Hellfire Club manage to seduce her to the dark side, at which she becomes Dark Phoenix. At that point, she lets loose with all of the darker emotions that she normally keeps inside (btw, this is when the Jean/Logan relationship heats up in the comic, as he understands having to fight your own dark side). She eventually goes completely over the edge, destroying an entire solar system. Eventually, Professor X manages to subdue the Phoenix, suppressing her abilities. However, the X-Men are then abducted by Lillandra, who is intent on destroying Phoenix. In the ensuing battle with her forces, Cyclops falls, and Phoenix cuts loose. She eventually sacrifices herself to save the universe.

Of course, they had to bring her back. You find out later that Phoenix was a cosmic entity that offered to save Jean Grey's life while she was dying in the shuttle. It replaced her, and emulated her physically, mentally, and emotionally (so in every way that counts, she was Jean Grey). It put her in stasis inside the shuttle, so that when it crashed she would slowly be healed until she was ready to return. Then, they find her in the crash and recover her, leaving a lot of explaining for Cyclops to do (he only married her clone and had a child while she was gone, but that is a different story!).

It is definitely a different approach that they are taking in the movie, but still it results in a similar story: Jean Grey becomes Phoenix, who will eventually become Dark Phoenix.

I have those comic books. I havent read them in quite a while but I do remember them.

They are famous as the best selling comic books ever.

The end of the series, Wolverine kills phoenix. That is quite possible ending in the next movie as well. Well have to wait and see.

Lets see, the next move which is titles mutant wars, probably has : sentinels, Dark phoenix... gambit... I wonder what else.

<font color=deepskyblue>My favorite scene with Colossus occurred several years later. The X-Men were in the Morlock tunnels when a new group of "nasty" mutants called the Marauders attacked them. One of them was called Harpoon, because he was an Eskimo that could create and throw harpoon-shaped energy bolts. He nails Shadowcat with an energy harpoon just as she is "Phasing" - causing her to shriek in agony. Bad Move. Colossus starts towards Harpoon, only to be confronted by a guy named Riptide that can spin at incredible velocity. Riptide also throws out small projectiles as he spins, which become deadly missiles (think of tornado driving a straw through a tree). Riptide lets loose with a huge volley of projectiles, cutting some of the Morlocks to ribbons. He starts laughing when he hears their cries of agony. That is too much for the gentle Russian. He wades through all the projectiles thrown at him. Riptide is bragging about how he can penetrate even Colossus' steel skin, but the Russian keeps coming. He walks right up to him and grabs him by the neck. There is a brief pause, and you see all of these projectiles sticking into Colossus from his chest down. Riptide stares in disbelief - then Colossus SNAPS his neck. As he is holding the lifeless Riptide in his hands, he turns to Harpoon and says "Pray to whatever gods you worship little man.....YOU'RE NEXT!"

That was very cool. Colossus doesn't lose his control like that often. After the fight (the rest of the Maruaders turned tail and ran), Magneto is examining the wounds caused by Riptides projectiles (Magneto was leading the X-Men at this time). As they remove the objects, a visible stream of energy comes pouring out of Colossus' body. He will obviously bleed to death in a matter of moments if he returns to his human form - so Magneto tries to repair the damage while Peter is still transformed into his steel alloy form. It works, but Colossus is left paralyzed. He leaves the comics for a while to heal and recover. His return is the second best scene I've ever read.

{see next post}</font>

NExt post is apparently in the works. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<font color=deepskyblue>During the Fall of the Mutants storyline, Wolverine was the leader of the X-Men. Magneto had left, Cyclops had joined with the original X-Men to form a group called X-Factor, and Storm had lost her powers thanks to her lover - a Native American named Forge.

Wolverine lead the group to Forge's skyscraper home in Texas. Nobody is home. Wolverine goes in first because he knows the place has all kinds of "booby traps". Sure enough, he gets caught in a crossfire of lasers. He is hurt so bad that he can't move. Rogue comes flying in with Longshot (for good luck ;) ) and grabs him. As she flies out, she crashes into......The BLOB! He has teamed with Mystique, Destiny, Pyro, and Avalanche to form another group of evil mutants. To make matters worse, they are actually endorsed by the gov't to HUNT mutants who haven't complied with the Mutant Registration Act.

So Rogue crashes into Blob and Wolvie is laying on the ground too weak to move. Blob tells Avalanche (who can manipulate dirt and stone like water) and tells him to throw him high in the air. Logan can only lay there in helpless horror as the several-hundred pound Blob comes falling out of the sky and lands *SMACK* on top of him. The other X-Men gasp in horror, but Blob just laughs. Then he says "Don't worry, he's still alive. I can feel him wiggling around under me". A couple of minutes later, Blob is mouthing off again when there suddenly a very audible *SNIKT*. The Blob's eyes go wide in disbelief, then he goes flying into the air, yelping in pain. Wolverine is lying flat on his back with his claws pointed straight up. He smiles and says to himself "Happy Landings, Bub".

While all of this is going on, Colossus is trying to get back to the X-Men. He had gone overseas (maybe back home) to heal from the wounds he suffered from Riptide. He comes to a phonebooth and tries to dial Xavier's School, but the slightest touch from him crushes the phone. He realizes that his strength has somehow increased dramatically during his recovery. Just then, his little sister Illyana (MagiK) shows up and offers to teleport him to the X-men. She 'ports him to Forge's stronghold JUST AS the Blob is coming BACK down after Wolvie's surprise. With ONE PUNCH, Colossus completely changes the Blob's trajectory from straight down to straight back - sending him crashing through several walls of Forge's skyscraper.

That was an awesome fight sequence! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] </font>

<font color="deepskyblue">Geeeeez....give a guy a little time next time counselor. :rolleyes: </font>

I was rushing to beat you to it. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<font color="#f683ad">Wow Great post Cerek [img]smile.gif[/img] Brings back fun memories [img]smile.gif[/img] I was just giving up on comic books about the time the X-Men were doing the Morloc series.</font>

Was the Morloc Massacre the story arc where Angel lost his wings due to being wounded by Harpoon? And he had to be saved by Thor?

[ 05-07-2003, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: Rimjaw ]

And I bet you guys think soap opera plots are silly. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Superhero comics and soap operas have a lot in common. Not the least of which is no main character ever really dies. And everyone may have an evil twin sibling waiting in the wings. lol.

Wait till you find out that it was a pre-x-men Gambit who was first hired by Sinister to assemble the Marauders and massacre the Morlocks. However he had a change of heart which led to him being attacked by Sabretooth and left for dead in the sewers. Which is why it was suggested that he had a shadowy past with both Sabretooth and Sinister in the comics. talk about coincidences.

[ 05-07-2003, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Rimjaw ]

<font color=deepskyblue>Not that I know of. Angel had already lost his wings. He was betrayed by some character he considered a friend, but who really hated mutants - especially Angel (big time jealousy over Warren Worthington's independent wealth AND mutant ability). This character (whose name escapes me) kidnapped Angel and amputated his wings. Apocalypse came along and gave him new, metallic wings that allowed him to fly much faster than before. He could also sling metal blades from the end of his wings (sortofa "wing buffet / flachette" combo attack).

The catch was that the wings are semi-intelligent and have a will of their own. They are always urging ArchAngel (as he is now known) to use them to harm or kill people. All in all, it was an excellent "upgrade" of an otherwise Class B mutant.</font>

<font color="#f683ad">Yes TL Soaps are silly...they have all the drama but no action!!! Comics rule because they combine the drama with ACTION!! ;) and also the sci-fi venue is ever so much more interesting than regular people venues [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>

<font color=deepskyblue>Well, I'm hoping to go see X2 for the second time tomorrow afternoon. A local cinema has 3pm matinee's everyday, but I've not been able to go since the cutbacks at work. However, my coworker will be here tomorrow and it looks like the cinema is keeping X2 for an extra week!

I did NOT notice the flames around Jean Grey before the water closed in, so I will definitely be looking for that this time around.

And <font color=lime>Magik</font> is right - sci-fi rules, soaps just drool.;D</font>

<font color="white">Theres one little detail that bothered me though. How could Magneto's prison guard(the one Mystique seduced at the bar) survive with that much iron in his bloodstream??? Just take a look at the huge syringe filled with all that iron!

Plus, wouldn't iron solidify at room tempreture?? That iron's gotta be molten red to be liquid right? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

Oh well, its just a movie.... [img]smile.gif[/img]

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<font color = lightgreen>Unfortunately, Jean Grey does die, at least in the movie. I doubt she will stay dead, however....

Most likely the Professor was getting a mind-full of the love and respect she had for him as a mentor and foster father.

[img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] Where are the Sentinels? Next movie, perhaps?

Most likely, Mystique injected some ferric solution into the poor guard's blood, but I can't think of any compound that would not have detrimental effects if injected. Actually, Magneto did once pull the iron out of someone's hemoglobin in the comics (not a pretty sight). I'm not sure why he didn't generate his own EMP to knock out the power to the holding cell complex, but then perhaps the screenwriter didn't do as well during his electricity & magnetism class as I did.... [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

All things considered, I expected this movie to be both darker and better than the first; I am glad to say that I was not disappointed on either factor. [img]graemlins/awesomework.gif[/img]

In all honesty, I must admit that were I to be a mutant I would side with Magneto.</font>

[ 05-10-2003, 12:58 AM: Message edited by: Azred ]

I agree nobody could have that much amount of iron in his blood and survive, let alone make it past a metal detector. Also wouldn't the circuitry of the cameras and machinery in the cell have to be made of metal?

I remember an issue of UXM where Magneto yanks out a guys pacemaker out of his chest. Ouch.

[ 05-10-2003, 01:57 AM: Message edited by: Rimjaw ]