I realize that Luvian is the IW's resident Jordan apologist, so I apologize in advance to him for this post. The truth remains that someone needs to get Robert Jordan listen to those of us who read. How many of you have invested huge amounts of time and money into the Wheel of Time? The first 5-6 books were great. I couldn't wait for the next book to come out. Now it appears that 'ol Robert has decided to become a dairy farmer. All he is doing now is milking his cash cow.

That is why I am recruiting people to join with me in the "NEW" FLAT TIRE OF TIME CLUB. There are no membership dues but you get a keen decoder ring and the clubhouse has that fresh new car smell. This new club filled with the power and prestige of IW members will be a beacon, bringing Robert Jordan back to his senses, so that he will finally wrap up this story before we die of old age.

As the official IW's Jordan apologist, it's my job to say that his books are great and that I like them all, and that the only problem in them is that he wait to long between each release.

That being said, I think the people have already spoken. I think it's obvious less people will buy his new book, and less sell mean less interest, wich mean less money, so I'm pretty sure he'll realise that if he want money he has to get back on track a little.

You two are funny! :D

Hey Memnoch, I saw Dance of Demons for sale at my local bookstore, I think I remember hearing about it, should I buy it? What do you think about it?

[ 01-22-2003, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

Is this a trick question? [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/laugh2.gif[/img]

Click here to see what I think about it. ;)

I agree after the 6th one he tried to include to many characters, as well as too many mundane details about their lives. I was a huge advocate of WoT forever, before it became what it is today. I read the first 7 books as they were released, and couldn't wait for the next one, but Robby does need to do some work on the last couple. To be blunt about them, they bored the heck out of me. I don't know if as I got older, now I demand more out of a novel, or if they just got worse, my guess is of the latter. I honestly think he's just going to try to publish an anthology so people can keep track of everything going on.

In other words, its become a soap opera. And honestly, I really really can't stand soap operas that go on and on forever, I mean, its really ridiculous.

Sounds like Terry Goodkinds Sword of Truth series. I really liked the first two books but, come on it has turned into a soap. I also think the hero Richard is actually losing intelligence as the series progresses.

Exactly! Same with Junny Wurt's latest series, you can summarise plot of the entire book of a few hundred pages in a few sentences. Heck her series has been spawning off series of their own till I lost count what book it is. Geez, whats with all these fantasy authors?

Martin, Hobb, Williams... these guys (& gal) are writing tight fantasy, Martin is arguably the best I've ever read (Song of Ice & Fire). It CAN be done, you just can't drag a series out for 10 books, seems to me 5 should be the MAX any author should endeavor to attack in a single story (which isn't to say you can't have multiple series')

I might beg to differ...I thought the first book was OK, the second was outstanding, the third very good, the fourth very good and the fifth very good (so far). It has turned into a series but the best thing about it is that I only started reading it about 4 months ago so to me the pace seems fine - I've got 2 1/2 books to go and already I'm rushing through the pages of Soul of the Fire. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I hope you're not talking about the last 2 books turning dull... [img]graemlins/awcrap.gif[/img]

I'd rather Jordan finished his books before HE dies of old age.
Or else it'll be just like Frank Herbert and Tolkien who left their sons to piece together works of crap from old notebooks.

After a while, you've got to ask this question: 'Did this guy REALLY, REALLY from the bottom of his heart want and NEED to tell us this story, or does this man simply really want and need to buy food and clothes for the next year or so?'.

Have you ever finished a book, and told yourself "Man! I wish this story would not end there! I wish it could go forever!"

I do, all the time. That's why I love Wheel of Time.

The wheel of time always turn. There will never be an ending to the turning of the Wheel of Time. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Actually Memnoch I could just barely stomach listening the last half of "Blood of the Fold". I buy unabridged audiobooks so I can listen to them at work. I am, by no means saying that these books are the worst I have ever read or listened to. I just felt like the main characters keep getting pimp slapped and they never seen to resolve anything. There is a soap opera tinge to things, especially the relationship between Richard and Kaylen. I enjoyed the flavor of the first two. I liked some of the things that happened in the "Blood of the Fold", but you have to admit that Richard had really dumbed down in that book. I felt like Goodkind was just trying to get the book done and rushed an ending, but it wasn't an ending. When I had finished reading the first two I was hot for the third one, but it really didn't live up to my expectations. Perhaps they were just too high.

As far as wishing a story could go on forever...no. Stories have a beginning, middle and end. They should end at some time. At least the main characters should be able to accomplish their Goal. LotR for example runs on for three books. But, they make steady progress towards a climax and an ending. I just don't see that happening with Goodkinds books. Heck, I'm not even sure that there is an ultimate goal in the series.

I need to read Goodkinds then...

Luvian, I understand your sentiment about not wanting a story to end because it was so good. I have had the same sentiment many times and I was a REAL BIG fan of WoT through the first 6 books, but Jordan has created the Frankenstein monster at this point. His creation has gotten out of control but with one big difference: Frankenstein was anything but boring when he came around, Jordan's last few books have become boring. The story has gotten away from him and that is a MAJOR sign of a writer losing focus. I would love to know the book sales for each installment. I have a hunch that though he still sells well there are those who have lost interest. I am one of them. I refuse to buy anymore of his WoT books. Jordan needs to put the series aside for a year or two, reread what he wrote in the beginning (I have found this in every creative artistic endeavor: an eventual failur to remember why something worked so well in the first place) and compare it to what he writes now, apologize to his audience for the dreck he has inflicted on us for in last 3 books, then denounce these last three books, and in the next two he ends it.

AH! That would be horrible for me! Finish it so early?

I agree that he is going slooooowly. The whole 11th book could probably have been done in 3-4 chapters. I really wish he would have added more. Yes, I want to see the story going on forever, but not because he is stalling. I want the characters to get new goals and new adventures, but failing that, I'll still keep reading every new books until he dies of old age.

Really? :eek: That was one of my favourite out of the five! [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]

I assume you're talking about...
*spoiler* coming, highlight the below text with your mouse between the [ ] to read:

[<font color="#3D2F1B">Richard foolishly trusting the mriswith and almost becoming one of them? I agree that it wouldn't be the thoughts of a rational person, but keep in mind that he had been wearing the mriswith cape for some time, this may have affected his thinking when it came to what they represented. Just my viewpoint. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>]

I just finished the 5th one and am starting the 6th and it is good so far...I don't know about the 7th though...I had a quick glance at it and it seems to be written in a different way.

LOL...I loved the invisible spoiler message. I think that was part of it, yes. But, as I stated the feeling that the story really isn't going anywhere is more disturbing to me. Perhaps I should give him the credit of doubt and try the 4th. Maybe I can find it on eBay cheap. I mean it isn't like I have alot to entertain my brain with at work. I run on auto-pilot there most of the time. You can only look at so many vise grips before brain numbness takes hold.

Have to admit my thoughs match Wulfere's pretty much - first book was good, 2nd was even better, 3rd was ugh what have I wasted money on - and I haven't been back to that well ever since.

On the original topic of Jordan - I love the books, but he needs to make at least 50% more progress per book - disappointed with the lack of pace in the last two or three.

Jordan started this neverending saga of books and Goodking is following his lead. The last Goodkind book has almost no bearing on the main story, it could be a novel unto itself.

As for Jordan, his story is never ending and he is filling his pages with repeated character deveoping trash. His characters are having the same insights and the same people are described in every book recently, it is just endless...

SPOILER AHEAD (no fancy invisible ones for me)

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I'm on page 500 of his newest book and they haven't even covered Rand yet or his cleansing of Saidin. It is completely frustrating and, for the first time in his series, I'm starting to skip paragraphs because I can't stand it anymore. It is so slooooooooow. I don't think I'll be spending any money on the next book.

On a separate note, I met Jordan a couple of weeks ago on a flight to San Diego. By the baggage claim I asked him when he was planning on wrapping up the story and he walked off in a huff with his small entourage following...I take that as a bad sign.

I haven't even touched this series yet, because I knew there would be such long waits betweeen books. Most of my friends have been reading it and saying how good it is, but are frustrated waiting for the next part... I almost never read a series until after it is finished, which is why I often seem so far behind everyone else. I can't stand a multi-year wait between books.

Have to admit my thoughs match Wulfere's pretty much - first book was good, 2nd was even better, 3rd was ugh what have I wasted money on - and I haven't been back to that well ever since.

On the original topic of Jordan - I love the books, but he needs to make at least 50% more progress per book - disappointed with the lack of pace in the last two or three.</font>[/QUOTE]Well, you guys are missing out on Book 6 (Faith of the Fallen) which is the best of the lot. Of all of them Book 4 (Temple of the Winds) is probably the weakest, Book 5 (Soul of the Fire) is quite good, if a bit depressing at the end, but Book 6 is outstanding. I do think I'm starting to become a Goodkind apologist. :D

After 6 books I'm still a fan of the Goodking books. I can't say the same for the flat wheel in time. I had a coworker give me his copy of the book. In my off time I was so bored that I even watched TV without cracking the book open. I finally forced myself to start (overcoming apathy) but couldn't get past page 23. Even for free, I am no longer interested in the books. If he had stopped (ie wrapped it up) after 6 or 7 books I would be a big fan, recommending the books to friends. Now, if anyone asks I'll just tell them it is a waste of time.