Q1. I just got my arse kicked (again) on level 8 the underground forest. Those priests and company (whatever they are called) seem to be too hard for a solo player. Are there any tricks / tacticts that help? has anyone completed it solo?

Q2. The dragon in the level 8 tower, Tristaistertema, with 5830 hp. All you get is 500xp for killing him solo -- ppffffft!!! is that the most effort for least award in the game [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img] or is there a quest to kill him that I am missing out on?

1. They are hard, and plentiful. However, if you can keep them to a couple at a time, they are also beatable. However, I'd want to have a few levels under my belt, and a decent AB/weapon to fight them with.

2. Z had to adjust the xp slider, as it was too easy to get to lvl 20+ from the get go. If you are multi classed, and not human/half elf, you will take a 20% hit on xp too, if your levels are more than one point apart too, so that may be part of the problem. Not sure.

I'll be lowering toughness. I know they are way to hard for level 8. I'll make it to where you can solo the area though.

Forget lowering the toughness, raise the XP on them. *grins wickedly* I'd be more than happy to have my arse handed to me on a platter if I knew the rewards were great enough. To be honest, Ziroc, I've stated repeatedly that Level Eight (The Underground Forest) makes Level Twelve (Cult Of The Dragon) look positively sissy. And to be honest, it does. I cannot take a character lower than 20 levels with really good equipment down into Level Eight and hope to slay anything. With Level Twelve, however, there are creatures for just about every level of character to face.

To be honest, you may want to up the difficulty on Level Twelve by three "notches" and tone down the difficulty on Level Eight by a similar three "notches." Each "notch" being a level of power (such as 7 levels of fighter vs. 10 levels of fighter.) I think that would even it up a little. If naught else, it'd make Level Eight more popular to venture through. As it stands, you NEED a party or a topped out character to take on Level Eight and live. I haven't seen too many players go through Level Eight with anything less than 30 levels under their belt.

Tristaistertema - thought that dragon was a girl? As well, the XP thing with Trist has been one of those ongoing discussions: "dragon XP higher?" (I'll need to find the link shortly.) I figure you (Ziroc) are still working out how best to solve that issue so I'm not going to rehash everything. (Besides, that is what that link will be for.)

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...=000868#000000

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...c;f=8;t=000809

(Yep, those are the two topics about the dragons from months ago. Has all the mutterings, grumblings, and rantings by me you'd ever need on our scaly friends.)

[ 07-09-2006, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: Mozenwrathe ]

No, the balance has to be right. I gotta make the level 8 mobs easier.. Then update on down the levels..

You may love it being hard, but many will find it too hard and quit.

Skimmed over the links Mozenwrathe and it follows a similar thread I had in the NWN forum a few years ago about Dragons in the game. My gripe then (not this module) seems similar to yours mate that Dragons do not get the respect they deserve in NWN. I guess it harks back to the old paper and dice days but Dragons (even old/young ones) should be uber characters.

I understand that the sliding scale of XP makes it hard to consistently value a Dragon kill but maybe throw in a few XP for the retrieval of some family treasure (I’m thinking that guest house in level eight) could be the go, nothing to fancy.

I always found lvl 8 humbling, right about the time chars really need it. Just when they think they are the baddest char in Undermountain, they come off of a fight that would leave you feeling that way, right into lvl 8. Bang!! I've gotten through lvl 8 with a median lvl 25 char, and that's not too unreasonable, I think, if you've done the Haunted Isle, which you can get to from lvl 4, although I don't recommend that for the faint of heart...Combing the first 7 lvls, and off shoots, you can easily reach that median by lvl 8, and they are tough, but not impossible. Personally, I'd leave it, but that is a valid point; some people may find it too difficult.

I would go along with robertthebard on not reducing the toughness of level 8.

Yes it is tough for anyone running down through the levels but it's a good shock to the system and stops overconfidence.

Perhaps putting an amulet of clearing (is there one there now?) in the lvl 8 store for those who decide they want to avoid confrontation and sneak through would solve any issues.

As it stands level 8 is a good test for any level of character.

What Level Eight (The Underground Forest) store are you refering to? I have never found an actual store to purchase items down there previously. If there is one, I would love to know the quadrant it can be located in. If naught else, I want to eventually have a listing of where to find all the stores currently inside of the module.

The issue about the experience points doled out when a dragon was defeated was contested a few times out as well. There have been numerous suggestions to remedy the 600 XP cap currently on all creatures in relation to how much dragons ought be worth. I could bring up the possibilities again, but that's up to you all to decide. The same would go for dragon treasures.

The difficulty of Level Eight in relation to the rewards in my opinion does not add up. Then again, as a "professional hoarder" I go for maximum cash value, rather than challenging my character concepts. After all, I am still quite the novice when it comes to building characters - even when I have a theme going for them. There are a lot of really good items on Level Eight to be assured, but when I weigh the challenge of getting those items against their gold-based worth, I find myself avoiding the level unless I have a faily high level character OR actually travelling in a party (which happpens very rarely for me).

And I am still certain that dragon is a "she."

[ 07-12-2006, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Mozenwrathe ]

The store is near the treestump IIRC.

It's in the boarding house. At the back.

found it, thanks.
took me long enough, though, as I took the "easier" route to get to Level Eight. I have a sneaking suspicion that Ziroc already pushed the slider on that level, as I went in with a fighter 8/rogue 8 with some souped up items (making him an equivalent to a fighter 10/ rogue 10). the fact I was able to kill anything there tipped me off a little.

okay, I have to admit I did not go after Trist during my run through Level Eight. I was just trying to find that store RTB insisted there was inside of the place. ended up facing off against a horde of undead dwarven clerics before I went to the right area. it was very annoying as I didn't have any scrolls of Mass Heal on me (which would have cleaned them up and out). the allies within that one area (of the monsters) were almost as frustrating, as they seemed to come in waves. that is one area that should be assaulted by at least one battlemage or a small group of Great Cleave-using berserkers.

[ 07-13-2006, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Mozenwrathe ]

I went down to lvl 8 just to take a look and have a go at that green dragon there.

Havn't done that for a while but after reports that lvl 8 was easier I thought I would try.

90 minutes to kill it (no magic - just hitting)! I had other stuff to do and was afk for a lot of the time (and died once because of that) but I doubt that lvl 8 is any easier than it was.

Nope level 8 is still as hard (rubs backside were it was well kicked) I am not saying that it should be changed but just asking for tips. Like do you sacrifice Ac for Ab by losing the shield in favour of a holy cross. Or is the some armor that I have missed that soaks up damage?

If however there is no other way of completing the level without the crap method of respawning every two minutes then maybe it should be looked at. I’ve seen people take on that level die a million times I just can not role-play that way myself.

A better way maybe is to create some uber rangers one could join with (say 2 henchmen?)at the boarding house. It could be made into a plot for the locals to reclaim the forest? Maybe a couple of mercenaries for hire at 10,000,000? The locals are unable to offer that amount but some adventurer could just come along whose only reward would be thanks (and xp of course).... Just food for thought guys, any ideas welcome [img]smile.gif[/img]

Just an addition to the above idea, by creating henchmen at the boarding house you then still have two ways to complete the level. In a group as it is now with no overall change because the xp gained on the quest is lost by dividing the kill xp between the henchmen. True solo same as it is now, again the xp gained on the quest is lost by dividing the kill xp between the henchmen. Single player who assess the situation as to hard and joins with the hechmen to do a quest he would not normally be able to complete so does not mind sharing the kill xp. It seems like a win/win situation though of course some poor bugger has to spend valuble hours doing the programme [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img]

Some people have said that its possible to solo level 8 with a level 25 character. I'd reckon at least level 30 - the Malar Beast and Greenie are tough - and that's without Priestesses throwing Harm spells around. And I'm sure I've been hit by IGMS from the Zhents a few times.

High AB and Dev Crit helps get them before they get you.

As far as handling their physical attacks goes, there is a nice heavy armour on level 12 which gives damage reduction (but it's easy to die a few times getting that). There is also a shield sold on one of the upper floors of Durnan's Inn that deals with sneak attacks.

Wear the two and you won't get a high AC but you will have enough protection to take on the Trollbark Dungeon, let alone level 8.

Ol'greenie is as tough as ever. As hard to hit as ever too. [img]tongue.gif[/img]


Dragons need an XP boost, especially the nasty tough ones. 600XP doesn't feel right when you've slain a pretty nasty customer.


Ah the fun of a good ol' dungeon crawl. Went from lvl 7 to lvl 23 in a day :D

I have a lvl 22 druid/ranger in 8 (in the background as I type). I did not go looking for trouble, but these damned Malars decided they did not like my fresh country girl smell or something and are actively coming into buildings, etc. after me!

There is NO way I can get any spells off. Roddybug (the worthless, "I don't have to listen to you" hench) died as soon as we stepped out of the cave. Oh, and stealth doesn't seem to be working at all in this level (at least not for the 'good guy', me).

I spent nearly 20 minutes whittling a Malar guard down. It's taken over 40 minutes so far for a Hunter---and her regen is so incredibly high all I can do is scratch at her and watch it heal (cannot get beyond "slightly injured" and never more than for a few seconds). Now she's been joined by another cursed guard. My +7 & +8 weapons (with hefty attack bonuses) do little.

This has ceased being fun. I love a good challenge, but for anything less than a full fighter at mid-to-upper 20s or lvl 30, it is impossible.

[ 08-24-2006, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: Garnet FalconDance ]

Robert the Bard rescued poor T'Lara. I had backed out of EfU and then re-entered; stealth then worked properly. We spent about an hour trying to teach old Trixie better manners, but in the end, she fell.

I thought dragons had vast hordes of gold and jewels? EfU dragons are so poor. ;)

Hehe.. that's why I like to do the lower levels (beyond 7 or so) with at least a party of two and preferably more! Tough going and it can be lots of fun taking down the worst of the bad guys when you have help! :D

Now you know why they are so mad...

I found this thread entertaining seeing as tI got my ass thrashed on level 8 last night. If I killed ANYONE on the level I am unaware as I spent most of my time runnign looking for non existent cover. LOL At the time I want to say my character was a 17 Fighter and 2 Rogue. NOTHING worked. LOL I tried going invisible...got killed. Someone above mentioned it is a humbling experience about the time your character needs it...very true. I had for the most part crusied until the end of level 7 and still felt pretty confident. Then BAM! It was like getting hit in the face by a steel pole (well, what I imagine getting hit in the face by a steel pole anyway. lol).

I look forward to trying again...just wish there was an easier way to get there than having to go through levels 4-7 again.

Yup, 8 is a tough one, Stonewarrior! But boy does it feel good to make your way through it when you finally can!

I agree, it will be nice when there's a teleporter to level 7 or 8. I never have enough time at one sitting during the week to run all the way down And don't have that many days during the week that I can try playing most of the time, so on the few days I do get to play after work, I have to keep doing the levels above it over and over... I usually can get to 6 and then run out of time. Either have to forego dinner or tell hubby to fend for himself when het gets home! LOL :D Neither's likely to happen soon, so I'll be looking for the portals when they come!

[ 08-27-2006, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

I normally go through Level Eight with rather souped up characters to begin with. That was the advantage of the previous system: if you knew where to look, you could pop down to various levels, get the items you needed, and then literally fight your way back up. Even using that tactic, Level Eight was the singular level I chose not to stop and smell the burning rosewood on. This particular stage (The Underground Forest) has been quite the conundrum for players ever since I got here. Many solutions have been provided, but really the one that normally works is to have a higher level character by the time you reach the stage. For me, that meant time spent in Waterdeep and the Tradeways before heading down the well. At the same time, I made a few choice purchases within Waterdeep, the Trollbark Forest, and Skulldeep before trudging all the way down to Level Eight. As well, I made sure to go with friends (all of whom I met online here) before trying that stage again.

My personal favoured blends are able to use at least some magic in order to get off a few distance attacks before closing with the enemy. If you look hard enough through the various stores (including one inside of Skulldeep's Southquarter), you should find the right combination of items for you in terms of fighting style. Make sure to bring plenty of healing potions, though, and anything that can temporarily make you immune to various spells is invaluable.

[ 08-27-2006, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Mozenwrathe ]

Hit often, and hit hard...always works for me...At least, when the chars are capable of it... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Another way of reducing the hardness without spoiling it for the uber fighter characters is to give other options for going through the level.

Reduce the number of *true seeing* equipped enemy and instead give that feat to the Maller trackers only. The trackers are easy to kill and once they are 'taken out' a character can use stealth to attack or sneak through the level. It seems strange that the 'trackers' and 'Visionists' are the only ones not able to see a hidden character :D

Backstabbing a Visionist always makes me laugh, she does not have the vision to see a dagger coming [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Cowards, the lot of you.
Use nukes.
That way, they all see it coming from miles away, and you can hear their pleading for mercy from the wireless mics planted all over it. Then when it lands, it will be a dud and just roll over all of them. Yes. Vengeance will be mine...

*MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!*

(ahem. yes.)

Aside from devices of gratuitous gibbing, I'd love to see a mage/rogue go through that Level with TimeStop spells and ripping open a casket of Sneak Attacks on all of them. It would make me feel good about being a spellweaver.

Another coward's way (I use it often) - slap on a bit of Improved Invisibility, make sure you are hasted and leg it all the way through. It's not big and it's not clever but it's definitely survival of the fastest.