I know this is a technical question, but I wasn't sure where to place this. It just seemed logocal to place it in this particular forum. If I am wrong I apologize. Anyway...

As several of you know I have been unable to load NWN once it is installed (see previous post) some here as well as other sites have mentioned the sound card drivers as a major culprit. The thing is I have an M-Audio Revolution 5.1 sound card. The latest and last driver (no more will be released) is two years old but the quality is excellent and it runs fine with other games that are much newer than NWN. I have been in contact with another person who has been experiencing the same thing over at Overclocker's Forum and below is what he had to say. Keep in mind that my OS is 32-bit Windows XP Professional with SP2. I'd like to know what you make of his information. From Alex who is a university student and majoring in computers...


"1. M-Audio's Revolution 5.1 's drivers have 3 bugs as i've noticed
- a. the 32 bit version seems to conflict with the nforce4 chipset - as seen in dolby digital 5.1 movies with the output set to 5.1 from the revo control pannel (i happen to have 5.1 sound, when i set the output to stereo, then i get no reboot)

- b. the 64 bit version is so unstable that it crashes win xp x64 immediately after installation , either stereo or 5.1

- c. the microphone seems to have some problems in google talk; it also resets its settings (i use to mute it) upon restart.

The problem with the driver is that Creative has bought Sensaura and they're really anal about allowing 3rd parties to do new implementations of the algorithms.

A good thing is that vista seems to recognise the card by default (*i'm not sure here, because i never installed it on my pc, but m-audio revolution 5.1 is listed all over it: in windows media player 11, when setting the output to 5.1 from the control pannel also mentions that a revo 5.1 is recommended). so high hopes there.

Now M-Audio's support site is down, but I'll keep bugging them.
By the way: could you put somewhere safe for keeping some of the minidumps from those blue screens you say you got? (m-audio believed me after i have showed them 3 from windows xp x64 - 32-bit one doesn't throw any due to the special nature of the problem)

_______________________________________________

If I am reading Alex right (and he has been speaking to M-Audio tech support quite a bit) there may be really no answer for my dilemma, plus I am getting the crashes with the NOT-EQUAL blah, blah, blah message the inevitable physical memory dump. So if I can't resolve the driver issue is the only recourse a Creative Sound card? Thoughts please!

Also, what sound cards are you guys using?

He's speaking a lot, but not saying much.

By chance what sound card did you have prior to the M-Audio?

If you've previously had a Creative card installed on the same version of DirectX, then I believe DirectX may be trying to use hardware acceleration.

Unfortunately the M-Audio doesn't support Direct Sound, which is hardware based, so if that's what you're trying to use it isn't going to work.

You'll find you'll have no end of problems with M-Audio.

This is a new build so I didn't have another card in this system prior. When I bought the M-Audio sound card I didn't relize that they weren't going to release a new driver. Serves me right not researching more considering the hours upon hours upon hours I spent researching all other aspects for my new build. Though there are people that really do like M-Audio.

Basically I want to use the card for gaming mostly and eventually I want to edit home movies.

Zebodog, could you please explain further your statement, "You'll have no end of problems with M-Audio"? What do you know, have learned, read and/or experienced? Just trying to learn more for future reference when I go to build in a year or two.

Also, what can this card be good for considering the reviews I've read from 2 years ago were very favorable. In other words, I'd hate to throw it out. Other games are fine BUT if the driver is causing my crashes I'll dump it.

Run a dxdiag, and see what it has to say, it may be that you can set it to not use acceleration. If this is the issue, then that should fix it.
As for me, I'm using the 24 bit SoundBlaster card, and it seems to work fine. I use it for audio playbacks, but I still mike in from the onboard card, and I have no idea now what that is...

Albromor, the M-Audio is a decent card in it's own right and in the right environment. If you're surfing, watching DVD's, listening to MP3's it's a great card but if you want to game then Creative is the way to go.

You'll be able to get your current card working with some research and tweaks and like I said before it's a decent card in it's own right but it's in a completely different league than an X-Fi or 2ZS from Creative that feature on onboard DSP. OF course the revolution also costs a whole lot less.

What do you expect from a soundcard? Do you play newer games? Even though it's a dedicated soundcard, it requires CPU cycles to work...cycles that won't be available to that shiny new game engine.

Never again will I skimp on researching a sound card (though I must admit I am not sure if my BSODs and the inability the load NWN is directly due to my current card).

I surf but I don't watch DVDs or listen MP3s and, yes, my main reason is gaming (though I do want to learn to edit VHS/mini-DV movies and burn them onto DVD format). The 5.1 was designed for gamers from their Revolution 7.1. The thing is I can play newer games without a hitch like Dungeon Siege II. It was actually the fact that others mentioned that sound card drivers were issues for many when trying to run NWN on newer rigs that got me exploring.

My problem, Zebodog, is that I don't have enough experience to do an indepth tweak so I am going to have to keep learning.

By the way, wasn't there some serious issues experienced by many people with Creative's X-Fi card? Was it ever resolved? I have been looking at the Creative Audigy 4Z. Any thoughts. Thanks and I'll run my DX Diag as roberthebard suggests.


UPDATE: Both my video card and sound card share IRQ 18! Could this be the source of my problem? How do I rectify this issue?

[ 09-02-2006, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Albromor ]

Having your soundcard and videocard sharing IRQ's is a problem. Changing the PCI slot that the soundcard is in will change the IRQ. Check the motherboard's manual to determine which PCI slots share IRQ's.

If you haven't already check out this thread over at Bioware.

http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewto...77680&forum=49


*Disclaimer: If following the above mentioned link causes you to follow advice that crashes/explodes/burns down or any way damages your system, I am in no way responsible for said problems.*

While this may be your problem, am I right in saying that sometimes sharing an IRQ is okay and works fine on some systems? I seem to recall my old system did this - I think...

You're right IRQ sharing is possible and in most systems is quite fine.

My GFX card is also on 18, but is sharing with my firewire controller. Since I don't use firewire, that's not ever a problem. I've got sharing on 22 and 23 as well, but again, it's nothing that will ever generally cause an issue.

I think most issues with Creative sound cards can be traced back to IRQ sharing and how Windows and your motherboard deal with that. The trick is to put the card in a PCI slot that doesn't share an IRQ with either the video card, or the IDE/SATA controller. Soundblaster cards are notorious bus hogs, especially the newer X-Fi and Audigy 2ZS line.

I've got an Audigy 2ZS installed through 2 different motherboard/CPU combos, and have never had a problem. Research, research....research [img]smile.gif[/img]

Well Microsoft makes it quite clear that sharing IRQs between PCI cards is correct as this is how Windows XP is designed. In fact they warn against going into the BIOS and "forcing" cards into different IRQs.

By the way, Zebodog, I checked my drivers for my sound card and they are "official" according to Microsoft. So if the drivers check out signature wise and there really isn't an IRQ issue, I wonder if my BSODs are caused by either my mouse or firewall.

And since they are officially recognized by Microsoft I am wondering now if the reason NWN isn't loading is due to another issue andnot my sound card drivers.

[ 09-03-2006, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: Albromor ]

From ATI:
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/...asp?deptID=894

From Bioware forums:
http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewto...&forum=49&sp=0

[ 09-03-2006, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: Zebodog ]

First, Zebodog, I want you to know that I *REALLY* appreciate you hanging with me on this.

The Bioware link was an eyeopener in that I have an X800GTO video card and I have the latest Catalyst driver. If I am reading the post right the writer suggests going to the Options first and tinker with that before hitting the load button, correct? So either the latest driver didn't fix the issue or my error message may contain other issues. If I am not mistaking I think I remember it saying something about nwnmain.exe, or some such thing.

I am going to attempt to install the game again. Do you recommend the 1.67 or the 1.68 update at this time? If the error log comes up how do I copy it for reference? Thanks again.

[ 09-04-2006, 01:04 AM: Message edited by: Albromor ]

I would probably try a basic install with no update and see if that works. If not install 1.67 and try again. If 1.67 doesn't work try 1.68. Try one at a time so as to eliminate as many variables as possible.

Did you try disabling sound and trying to run NWN? If it still crashes with sound disabled you can rule out your sound card.

At this point I'd probably also try reverting your drivers back to a 5.x version to see if it is in fact the newer drivers. ATI recognizes it as a known issue all the way back to 6.1. Directly from the Catalyst 6.1 release notes:

Neverwinter Nights: Playing the game under Windows XP on a system containing an ATI Radeon X800 series, may result in the game exiting to the Windows desktop and an error message being displayed. Further details can be found in topic number 737-21466

Zebodog,unless ATI gets their braintrust in gear I don't think I am going to be playing NWN due to the constant crashes that even the latest Catalyst driver can't fix as your highlited message clearly indicates.. Why the X800 series cards has this particular issue I have the faintest idea. Well I now know it isn't my audio card.

I sure hope the X800 cards are going to work for NWN2!

Oh yeah, one more thing. My BSoD is due to my Sunbelt Kerio Firewall. After much research and an analysis of my minidump I have 100% confirmation.

Have you tried earlier driver versions for your ATI card?

Its the X800 architecture itself because other ATI models are running this game with the latest 2 Catalyst drivers without a hitch.

I took a look at the Release Notes from some earlier versions, Catalyst 5.5 and 5.10 to be exact.

The 5.10 had issues with ATI 9600, but no mention of other NWN issues. The 5.5 made no mention of issues with NWN. Both versions support the X800 so it's possible you may have some success with earlier versions of the driver.

As new drivers are released, optimizations are made for secific game engines and newer cards. Ultimately this causes problems with older games and cards, but since their older they don't receive much more attention from a driver development stand point since the demand is for the new high powered Oblivion, Prey, HL2 drivers that work best on the X1900XTX and other high end cards. The faster your card runs on new games, the more you'll sell since everybody wants the fastest.

That's the problem with a Unified Driver. It can't be all things to all cards. Pick the best driver for your card not necessarily the newest driver for the newest card.

[ 09-08-2006, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Zebodog ]

Hey Zebo, quick question. I was looking at my IRQs and I saw that my vidcard shared the same IRQ with "Microsoft UAA Bus Driver for High Definition Audio". Is that my soundcard? Mine is onboard (it works fine in games etc. it's the newer kind) but I wasn't sure whether this was the onboard sound showing up here or something else. If it is, and I wanted to change the IRQ how would I do it? Since I can't remove the soundcard that is.

My audio adapter comes up as made by "Sigmatel" and shows up in the 'audio devices' as
"Audio Adapter Intel 82801GB ICH7 - High Definition Audio Controller [A-1]". I think this is the same thing, no?

SpiritWarrior, if you are not having problems then don't attempt to change your IRQ settings. It is a Windows XP thing and Microsoft makes it very clear that to do so will cause significant problems. XP sets the IRQ numbers as needed and if they are shared it is because your OS has determined it is the best course to take.

[ 09-21-2006, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Albromor ]

Yup, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
There's no way to fix the IRQ assignment of onboard hardware without re-installing Windows without ACPI...You just don't want to go there. :D

Well, sometimes when the sound is on it can knock my FPS down a few, if I disable sound the FPS goes up. I'd just like to have it anywhere but in the same IRQ as my videocard...since gaming requires both of these things it can't be good to tax an intergrated device at the same time in the same IRQ. Perhaps I could change my vidcard IRQ then?

The frame rate drop is due to the extra processing that your CPU is doing to make all those sounds. With onboard sound, the CPU takes care of all the processing duties related to audio.

Unless you have the option of changing your video card to a different slot, you won't find much success in attempting to change the IRQ. Again, don't poke the bear! If it's working fine be happy! [img]smile.gif[/img]

SpiritWarrior, when I was doing heavy research on my new build one thing that was consistently pointed out to me and through my reading was that onboard sound does the very thing that you are trying to correct: It will slow down your framerates.

I disabled the onboard sound and bought me a soundcard for this very reason.

Yeah I know of this about onboard, I have an old SBlive soundcard around somewhere but haven't put it in yet. This onboard isn't horribly bad in games or anything, there is just a slight drop in FPS sometimes. I wondered if changing the IRQ's would help is all.