I have Xzar in my new party and it's been a while since I last used him. I'd forgotten just how useless he is during the first few chapters. Ok, so all Mages (Magi?) are weak at the beginning, but Nacromancer is one of the hardest to play and a Mage with a Dagger has to turn and run at the sight of a Gibberling. Actually, it wasn't until I remembered that Throwing Daggers are ok, then he started getting in a few hits of his own. So are you an Xzar fan, do you love his crazy personality and wait for the day when his Magic starts to work, or do you walk on and leave him to rot?

I usually pick him up for gibberling fodder early on. Sometimes he survives till Nashkel, sometimes not.

What's so hard about playing a Necromancer? The only spells you aren't able to use that are worth a darn are Mirror Image, Improved Invisibility, and Blindness. Using Dynaheir or Xan would be much more difficult as far as spell restrictions. You could argue that Xzar is better than Edwin in that he has a higher dexterity vs. Edwin's higher constitution. So unless you're really in love with one of the spells I mentioned, Xzar is a fine choice for a mage.

[ 05-01-2004, 05:17 AM: Message edited by: The Ozzman ]

No I've never used Xzar as I'm usually the mage in my party and if I do pick up a mage then it's usually Minsc's piece of skirt.

The furthest I've taken him was to nashkel, and that was only once. I usually kill him just for the sake of it, when I meet him the first time round.

You'll be using Mirror Image up until the final battle of ToB, and at such a low level, Mirror Image is usually the deciding factor between life and death for a mage. Xan doesn't make the cut either, come to think of it... No Magic Missile? No Fireball? These are also spells you use up till the end.

True, you can make them work. My question is, why make things harder on yourself?

I've lost count on how many times I've completed BG & Totsc but I can tell you this, I think I've used Mirror Image once, and that was to see what it looks like. It is not by any means a must have spell.

I had thought the same thing about Xzar, but I am in a game where I have played him through all the way to Baldurs Gate. I had the same problem as you (Miget Gems) as far as his wepons go until he hit 6th level. Then I got him a +1 sling and some +2 bullets and he's allright. He can cast all the spells that I need him to, Identify, Magic Missel, Horror, Hold person, Flame arrow, Acid arrow, Monster summoning, Dispel magic, Fire ball. All I did was get him a neclace of missels, some of those fancy wands and through on the Robe Of Evil Archemegi and he has done as well as any mage befor him. But its up to you to decide if thats worth it to you. [img]graemlins/arcadefreak.gif[/img]

Whenever the subject of Magic comes around, then people have quite strong ideas about it. Personally, I am a big fan of Mirror Image - I find it essential as a defencive device, but it also allows the Mage to be more agressive, if needs be. Since quite a few of the Nacro' spells are close range effects, it would be nice to use them while protected by Mirror Image. Anyone who has solo'd a Mage will tell you how useful Mirror Image can be.

It has always bugged me that the merit of a particular School is based on what you can't do, rather than being better at your chosen Spells. It may be harder to implement but I would rather have had a bonus system for specialisation, instead of restrictions. But I guess the rules were in place before the game was made.

As for Xzar, I have used him on previous occations, often for roleplaying interest. One of his most noteable exploits is recorded in my old posting "Xzar v The Zombies" - it still makes me laugh. For my new party I have an idea that should give him a new path in life - he is going to 'find religion' and Dual-Class to a Cleric!

Not being able to cast certain spells is not the kiss of death for a Specialist Mage--which is fortunate, because if it were the kiss of death, the Specialist Mages wouldn't exist at all. Hey, it's not like anybody refuses to use Jan (an NPC in BG2) because he can't cast Abi-Dhalzim's Horrid Wilting.

Take Xan: No Magic Missile? No Fireball? Duh--grab some Wands.

Dynaheir: No Monster Summoning? Wands again.

Xzar: No Mirror Image or Improved Invisibility? So what? MI is indeed a great defensive spell, but how often are you going to send your Mage into a melee anyway? And I, personally, only use II as one extra buffing spell for my Tank--one extra buffing spell that they don't really need all that much.

Edwin: No Identify. Oh, boo frickin' hoo. In BG2, the spell of True Sight also comes into play, for a grand total of *two* good spells barred to Conjurers. Happily, it can also be cast by Clerics, Bards, Inquisitors....

You're right about Edwin and Dynaheir, but I beg to differ about conjurers.. A wand of fireballs is nifty, but Wands of Magic Missiles are a *joke*. One missile? I'm thinking further ahead to SoA and ToB, or the end of the game, when a two MMs can take out a foe... Or during ToB, when Improved Alacrity means you can fire off five or six MM spells and kill almost anything.

Same applies for the Wands of Monster Summoning, though it's not as bad since later in the series other classes get as good or better summons.

Xan is a valid character, sure, but I'm just thinking of using a conjurer as a long-term class.

I really like the monster summoning spells against the tougher enemies and I hardly use my mage against lower level enemies. I had xan cast about 8-10 monster summoning spells in the final battle against sarevok and really kept he and his minions off my party and killed them all realitively easy. Anyway just my 2-cents.

Ah, the thing is, the name of the final foe is sort of a spoiler. If you could edit that to "in the final battle and really kept..." that would be great.

But a warm welcome to you.

What's he good for? He's friggin' hysterical!

XZAR - Uh yeah - What is he good for - absolutely nothing!
Sorry, Edwin Starr flashback ;)

Stop touching me! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Xzar is great for casting Larloch's Minor Drain (Spelling?) too weaken enemies during the first parts of the game, as well as some other spells. Usually I switch him and Monty for Xan, though, when Xan is available.

Actually, when I use a specialist wizard, I usually will pick up another wizard to cast the missing spells. For example, I always end up using Xzar and Edwin together. Then, I concentrate on those areas where they two differ. For example, illusion has Mirror Image, the two invisibility spells, etc. which are more defensive in nature. Thus, since Xzar can't use them, I make sure to give him the better defensive items (a certain claw comes to mind, along with a certain belt and a certain pair of boots) of the two wizards and focus his spellcasting on more destructive areas (that fits a necromancer, anyway) and for identifying items. I then focus Edwin on things like Invisibility, etc. and focus him on destructive stuff after that. Thus, they complement each other.

Of course, another tactic is just to say "I don't have access to those spells, so work around it". In BG1, that is relatively easy. I usually play all-good parties, so end up using Dynaheir as my only mage. Can't cast Conjurations or Enchantments. Ok, go get wands to supplement. Especially easy with Dynaheir and Xan, but harder to do with Edwin (not really needed, just spend the 100gp to identify stuff) and Xzar. Even without wands, you can just work around those things, especially if you are "tank-heavy" in your tactics.

Hey, Faceman - I had an Edwin Starr moment as well.

When I started this thread I wasn't intending to get into a debate about the merits of the NPC Mages and their Schools of Specialisation - but I guess it's a popular subject that divides opinions. I am using Xzar for roleplaying, so his strengths and weaknesses are part of his character. Being out in the wilderness with 4HP, a little Dagger and the not too impresive Chill Touch spell to fall back on, it's no wonder he needs Montaron as a minder - but does he?

By way of a little roleplaying I took my party to the Carnival. Xzar got into deep discussions with Zeke and bought two scrolls (one via cluaconsole). Then before we could stop him, Xzar had created a stone statue out of Monty, to be used as the new carnival attraction, and replaced him with Branwen as his new (better looking) companion. Yep, being totally crazy does make him a fun character to have along for the ride.

There is always an answer to lack of spell use. Like SIX was saying pick up some wands, but dont forget BG still lets sp mages cast any spell out of your qick slot, scroll style, as well. When it comes to mages its more whatever's yor flavor. There is always a way to have your mage cast whatever your party may need. It may just cost some gold out of your pocket.

Haha! Did you take a screenshot? I'd love to see it in the Funny Screenshots Thread in the SoA Forum.

Montaron, I...I...I....never loved you!?!! :D

Great stuff, Midget Gems. Classy roleplaying. I could imagine that perfectly...

Xzar has some of the greatest quotes in the game and is worth having in any party for his unpredictable nature and brilliantly bizarre wit alone. In the last two times I've finished BG1, I've had him in my party for the initial stages of the game until at least after I finish the mines. I dropped him for Edwin, (a personal choice) but I'm still rather fond of Xzar and shall one day see it through to the end with him. [img]smile.gif[/img]
There are many tactics to use to keep him healthy and kicking. Throwing knvies, darts, larloch's minor drain, anything to keep him in the backline through the early stages is beneficial.
The first time I played, I actually didn't even have a mage at all...but that's another story.

Anyway, keep it up Midget Gems. Hope to hear some more funny tales of your Xzar antics. ;)

Hi Jerr. I did take a screenshot and I was wondering about putting on a caption and making it available. I never realised that you guys on the BG2 forum had already done a competition, I bet there are some more great screenshots out there still (with or without captions). Looking back at some of my previous parties makes me wish I had captured more of those 'BG Moments'with screenshots.

You can put it up in the thread, but the contest is over.

But put it up anyway :D I love screenshots :D

Ok, I've had a go at putting a couple of screen-shots on a web page - see if you can get them at http://uk.geocities.com/maurice.hese...om/BG1pix.html

I am still having fun with my role-reversal party: Xzar makes a fine Evil Cleric, I see him as having Bassilus as his role model. Also I have Ajantis as an Evil Paladin! He cut down some innocent, lost rep points and proclaimed "We follow the path of Helm". lol.

For me, xzar bever lasts long, but im not much of a magic person, and the mirror image thing was never of much use to me anyways, but when i do use a mage, its usually their destructive spells, not buffs.

Do you have larger ones?

The images can be seen full size if you download them. Otherwise I may add a couple more and make them all bigger. But I don't have a lot of time at the moment and I'm still learning about making web pages.
MG

Jerr, drag the screenshots into the URL window.

Cool, they look cool.

i've learned something already and its not even 9am [img]smile.gif[/img]

Xzar with a hammer! nice . . .

Now I hate to say this boys but the best two mages in the game are Dyhnier and Edwin, for TOTSC i would use Dyhnier while you can, but in further chapters of BG Edwin is incredible powerful as a conjuerer. He can use cunjurations, necromancer, evocations, and illusion, which is all the spells a good battle mage needs.

The problem with Xzar is is opposing classes, yet ive found that Xzar is more powerful then Xan in battle situation while Xan might be better company in your party.

*Not 100 percent sure if he can use necromances, i dont rember their opposing class.

Xan can use necromancy, it is evocation that he can't use. Can easily be circumvented with wands (frost, fire, lightning).

Xzar's loss of illusion hurts mostly on defense. If you have a full party, and use him as a "launcher" (throwing destructive spells), then not a huge limitation.

Edwin can do just about anything in BG1 (except identify items). Pretty much a straight mage.

Dynaheir is hurt by two schools missing (conjuration and enchantment). The first can be circumvented by the Wand of Fodder. The second one is a pain, as some of the early enchantment spells really help the party (sleep, confusion, emotion, etc.). Still, she is pretty much your only option for an all-good party (unless you dual-class Imoen), so I just work around it.