I've just recently discovered the joys of making your own custom items using the toolset.

Now I have a bit of a problem - I always get carried away and go over the top. I add attack bonuses, damage, spells etc like there is no tomorrow, I just can't stop myself once I've started. [img]redface.gif[/img]

The main reason I got into it in the first place was because I was really disappointed when I discovered in HoTU that I couldn't upgrade my monk's gloves at the forge, so I thought I'd make my own. Not only that, but because I didn't have the martial weapons feat, I couldn't even upgrade weapons for my henchmen, because you have to equip them to upgrade them :(

Anyway, that's my excuse.

What I ended up with was a totally over-powered pair of gloves for my monk, I think they are fantastic, but if I used them to play online it wouldn't go down too well. It's not helped by the fact that they cast chain lightning on hit, so I can end up totally frying a fairly large group of enemies (along with any nearby containers, levers, and doors [img]redface.gif[/img] ) in one or two punches. Great if you want to steam through an area in record time, but it's not balanced gameplay for sure. I also managed to flog a spare pair I just happened to have lying around [img]redface.gif[/img] for nearly 2 million gold [img]redface.gif[/img]

I was wondering if anyone had any tips for balanced item creation, especially weapons - what sort of attack bonus, damage, spells etc would be considered suitable for various character levels. I don't understand the whole 'item level' business that I've heard mentioned, so if someone could explain that too I'd be grateful.

It's my own fault for being a bit of a 'kid in a candy store' when I realised just how easy it was to create my own custom items! [img]redface.gif[/img] Thanks in advance.

Every effect adds a gp value to the item. The more effects, the higher the cost. The cost, in the end, determines the level the character must be to use the item.
Now then.

Why don't you try, I don't know, not having an item cast an uber spell on hit? That would be a start. I don't mean to patronize you... I'm just saying it's a bit extreme.

Something healthy to start with is an enhancement bonus. How powerful do you want the item to be? Will it be used against a specific type of enemy?

Another goodie is a damage bonus. Play around and see what you like.

Jewelry is easier. Think of something you want it to do and go for it. Start out simple at first.
And nobody said you can't make uber items... I, myself, have made two Rings of Elemental Superiority. They're powerful, but they have drawbacks, which I use to justify their use. Have a look...


Rings of Elemental Superiority are worn by the worshippers of the four elemental deities of Faerun. Rings of Fire Superiority are worn by followers of Kossuth. They are powerful, bordering on the power of lesser artifacts, but not all of this power benefits its user. When slipped on, the wearer undergoes a minor transformation, becoming more like a denizen of the Plane of Fire: Quick, but frail. Immune to fire, but vulnerable to other elements, particularly the cold. More resistant to physical damage, especially from elementals... But is it worth the cost? Its downfalls may well outnumber the benefits, and one should think carefully before donning such an item.

Ability Bonus: Dexterity +3
AC Bonus +3
AC Bonus vs. Racial Group: Elemental +5
Damage Vulnerability: Acid 25% Damage Vulnerability
Damage Vulnerability: Cold 100% Damage Vulnerability
Damage Vulnerability: Electrical 25% Damage Vulnerability
Decreased Ability Score: Constitution -3
Decreased Saving Throws: Acid -3
Decreased Saving Throws: Cold -5
Decreased Saving Throws: Electrical -3
Immunity: Damage Type: Fire 100% Immunity Bonus
Immunity: Specific Spell Fire Storm
Immunity: Specific Spell Flame Strike

The toolset gives a fair idea (though not always perfect) of the appropriate level for a particular item.

Under the general tab in an item's properties is a line for 'required level', its right under 'required lore' and right above 'category'. This gives a ball-park figure on what level character would typically use such an item.

Also consider that things like the new on-hit property that fire pretty spells everytime you make or take a hit can cause severe server lag in the course of a battle. A chainlightning or missle storm spell going off 6 times a round can bring aserver to a crawl just by one character having such items, much less a whole party or a bunch of monsters with such items. Use the on-hit property with great care and consideration, particularly with some of the flashy graphic intensive spells.

If you must do extra damage with each hit, pick Damage Bonus: Electrical and pick a number... As a rule and just using common sense, gloves shouldn't damage people not being actually hit by them.

Cheers for the help, as I said I would not use anything like that to play online, I'd consider it cheating. Single player on my own PC though - I can use that to think up some weird and wonderful stuff ;)

I will use those tips to make some suitable gloves for use online though, I found the gloves available in the OC and SoU/HoTU to be quite boring - loads of weapon options for other classes, but just the standard ones for us monks :( (I think having a monk use a kama or staff is a bit of a waste).

Although having said that I did find a nice pair of gloves in HoTU last night when I accidentally killed someone who surrendered just as they were falling to the floor.

I actually tried to get help from others on forming a basic rule set - but only 2 people would even respond..so I deleted the post.

Because of the systematic pig-headishness in relying on the gp vs. level, I'd say just adhere to that rule. Furthermore there is NO REASON to place in detriments to the item because they don't decrease the gp vs. level like they should.

So I guess ultimatly stick in whatever you want just as long as it doesn't exceed your character level, (and yes I know its still absurd for epic levels).

Chain lightning? dump that spell mister and put in 1 level of harm instead - then you'll see what real power gaming is.

btw, remember you can have multiple pairs of gloves - heck, you could even have a pair of gloves for each racial group with the slay-racial group funcion (and it isn't graphically intensive on a server).

Most servers worth even playing in will strip OnHitCastSpell propeties. I would avoid any exploitive properties also such as "Harm" as they really do ruin the fun for you co-gamers.

[ 02-11-2004, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: SpiritWarrior ]

Game balance. Guilt. Playing in character. Three very valid reasons.

Personally I try to restrain myself from creating single equipment in the Toolset. 'Power to the People' isn't always a good thing. If I were to use it to create custom equipment, they would only see a use in a module I've created myself and fitted into it regarding game balance etc.

"Game balance. Guilt. Playing in character. Three very valid reasons."

Not as far as a ruleset is concerned, what your refering to are subjective assesments. What is balanced, guilt causing, or playing in character is really up to each individual person - which isn't something that is readily quantifiable (I know, I've tried). Whats OK to you might not be OK to someone else - just look at the responses so far.

The day I suffer any guilt as the result of playing a computer game is the day I book in with a mental hospital [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img]

Just tell us where it is and we'll come and visit. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

You have to agree though, that there is a general consesus on what is uber and what ain't....

I'm not even sure about that, at least in comparison to character/opponent level.

for instance in HOTU I've tried on hit cast chain lightning and didn't find it "uber" - on the other hand against most opponents on hit cast harm is exactly what I'd call "uber". I think then at the absolute end of the spectrum virtually all would agree on what IS uber - but you have to get pretty far over to that end of the spectrum b4 you'll see that sort of consensus.

Well I would consider both harm and chain lightning crossing the line. Anyone else out of the many I game with would too. Like I said, most servers worth their salt will strip OnhitCastspell anyways.

see we don't agree, you would dispose of on hit chain lightning absolutely (regardless of level) and I wouldn't..

the nice thing about the striping though (provided your informed in advance) is that it IS objective - anyone jumping on that server doesn't have to think twice about that particular aspect of an item - just don't have it when you log-on.

No, level 1 would be fine ideally but for 2 reasons:

1) We have many uber wannabe kids playing this game who would abuse such a rule and hike the level up. The theoretical solution is to script Onhitcastspell to be legal only at say, levels 1-5 but this is nulled by my next reason for practical purposes.

2) Onhitcastspell anything can cause severe lag. Make a weapon with 'Onhitcastspell Weird' on it and you'll see what I mean. Weird firing on every hit. For a higher level character who has multiple attacks per round this can crash a server and/or anyone else witnessing it due to severe video lag as the vfx duplicates itself successively.

The Onhitcastspell feature was made really for offline use, in modules created by the community and not to be attached to every item and dragged into every online server out there. George Zoeller himself concedes this, and tells us this feature was included mainly for the OC which can only be played offline and then just released to the public later.

Hey just an FYI...I will be adding an item forge to my character mod in the next ten days or so. Thanks to Philip's scripting expertise, it will have some built in limits so one cant go too overboard but it will not offer the full range of modifications available in the toolset right off the bat either.

Sucks you can't rename items in the game itself or it would be perfect. Anyway if you like making items and you can stand the moderate limits, the forge maybe for you. Plus you can make an item and then go test you character with it in the arena in pretty much one setting as well. [img]smile.gif[/img]

It will be fairly easy to customize and easy to remove or alter the limits as well, so if you like the forge but hate the limits then you can tweak it all you want.

Creating balanced items is one of those things I agonize over as both a builder and a player. One wrong move and the whole balance thing flies out the window.

Best of luck and most importantly have fun! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Well, I reckon that the On Hit:Cast Spell property is a bit of a waste of space at the moment, mainly because it fires every time a successful hit is made. It might not do what it's supposed to do every single time (ie if the opponent makes its DC checks or saves) but the spell, including graphics, etc will always fire on hit. At epic levels where your PC is pretty much hitting anything in sight it can get massively munchkinny, with all these fireballs, lightning bolts, etc exploding all around you as you cut a swathe through your foes.

That said, there's a place for it as an Item Property, as long as you can control the frequency with which it fires. For example, you might have an artifact (eg a sword) that does 1d6 points of electrical damage on hit, and on 10% of successful hits casts Chain Lightning. You were able to do this fairly easily in the Infinity Games using TeamBG's IEEP, but in Aurora I guess you've got to script it. I wonder if someone will eventually create a hak to get around this, eh. :rolleyes: