I havnt got the game yet, though i should get it this week, so i just wanted to ask if you can dualwield. I know you can dual wield in IWD2 and its based on the same roles, so...?

Yup you can dual-wield

thats a relief, i happen to like dual wielding elves very much.

<font color="gold">If you're going to dual wield, I suggest you start out as a ranger, as they get the feats Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting for free at 1st level.
If you don't start with a ranger, you really should get those aforementioned feats. Without them, dualwielding won't be such a good idea. ;) </font>

You definitely need both feats to dual wield. You get a -6 penalty to-hit with your main hand and a -10 penalty to-hit with your off-hand if you don't. Ambidexterity lowers the penalty by 4 to the off-hand (from -10 to -6), and two weapon fighting lowers the penalty to both hands by 2 (from -6 to -4).

Rangers get the Improved Two Weapon Fighting Feat at 9th level (a second attack with the off-hand at a -5 penalty). However, then you are stuck wearing light or no armor (none of the ranger's bonus feats work when wearing heavier armor). They also cannot use those feats with double weapons (you stated you wanted to use two weapons instead of one double weapon, so no big deal for you). A fighter can wear any armor, and can take all 3 feats with their regular or bonus feats, and can use double weapons with them. However, you end up using up 3 feats that you would normally use for stuff like Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, etc.

Also, you only get half of your strength bonus to damage with your off-hand weapon, no matter what you use in the off-hand.

Finally, when you fight with two weapons, you need to keep track of what kind of weapon you have in the off-hand. Any weapon of one size or more smaller than your character is considered a light weapon (for example, humans are medium size, so any weapon of size small or smaller is considered a light weapon for a human). If you have the 3 feats from above, and use a light weapon in your off-hand, you only get a -2 penalty on to-hit rolls with each weapon. However, if your off-hand weapon is not light, you get a -4 penalty with each weapon. The advantage with the two larger weapons is you can do more damage with the off-hand (smaller weapons do less damage on average), and if they are the same type, the you only need one weapon focus feat to cover both weapons, etc. However, you get larger penalties. If you use a smaller weapon in the off-hand, you get smaller penalties, but do less damage with the off-hand and have to get two weapon focus feats, etc. since your weapons will be different (unless you use the same type light weapon in your main hand, in which case you will be able to use one weapon focus feat, etc. for both weapons, but do less damage across the board).

I guess the best way to sum it up is to say that the 3rd edition rules do a pretty good job of balancing things out. To get an advantage in one area, you have to take a hit in another area. Kind of like life. :D

Alrighty then. Perhaps ill start out with something a tad bit easier, like the regular sword and shield fighter, just to get used to the game. im somewhat familiar with 3rd edition rules, mainly by playing Icewind Dale 2. But i will play a dual wielding elf someday! Well, thanks for the info.

Oh no problem! But don't give up on your character concept that easily! Just know that you need 2 feats (Two Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity, both of which you get for free if you are a ranger). Choice of weapon(s) are just up to you (if you want to do the Driz'zt dual-wielding scimitars, just take the above 2 feats and grab a couple of scimitars). You may get some penalties to your attack rolls, but you get an extra attack (2 if you take Improved Two Weapon Fighting, which you cannot even get until 9th level), which makes up for it. It may seem complicated at first, but really it is not that difficult once you get playing (the prelude of the official campaign is a great place to train yourself, as it is pretty easy to wipe everything out regardless of what you are wielding).

Best of luck!

It really can be worth it if you're going to give serious thought to weilding two weapons. one of my Favourite characters is my Human Ranger9/Rogue11. I use him as an assassin [img]smile.gif[/img]

i dont really like using two large weapons. I prefer something like a long sword/short sword or short sword/dagger combinations, at least for elves. but i wont be able to play before i get it to work properly. currently its very slow, guess ill have to update it first.

Like I said, as long as you have those two feats, you'll be fine. You'll get only -2 to hit with each weapon; you can get half of this back by getting the Weapon Focus feat with each of the weapons (+1 to hit with weapon selected). And, if you take Improved Two Weapon Fighting at 9th level, you'll be quite vicious (at highest levels, you'll get 6 attacks a round :D ).

what are the rules for double weapons ? like dire mace, 2-ended swords etc. I like the look of the 2-ended sword cause it's like darth maul from SW-Ep1. what are the rules though reguarding penalties and feats ? someone said ambidextrous and 2-weapons fighting dont help ?

Yes they do, but not the ones gained by the ranger (he gets Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting for free, but only when fighting with two weapons (one in each hand) and in light armor). You still need Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting, but you are stuck taking the feats as regular feat selections if you want to use a double weapon. In addition, all except the quarterstaff are exotic weapons, so you will need to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency with the double weapon of your choice (in your example, the two-bladed sword), so you actually need 3 feats to start with (unless you take the first two and use a quarterstaff, then when you hit 3rd level (or 2nd level if you are a fighter) use that feat that you get to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency). Thus, only a human fighter could start out using a two-bladed sword to full effect (since he gets 3 feats to spend right at 1st level: one that all characters get a first level, a second for being human (racial ability), and a third for being a 1st level fighter). Fighters of other races can only get two feats to start with (one for 1st level character, and another for 1st level character) so they are stuck using a quarterstaff until 2nd level, when they can take Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Other classes have it even rougher, though, since they only get one feat at first level. Thus, only if you are human can you get Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting both at first level as a non-fighter (since you get the bonus feat for being human), then have to wait until 3rd level to get Exotic Weapon Proficiency. The other races who are not fighters have to wait until 6th level to be able to use a two-bladed sword to full effect (one feat each at 1st, 3rd, and 6th level, so not very efficient). The point: if you plan to use a double weapon (except quarterstaff), take levels in fighter.

The advantage of double weapons? Both blades do the same damage, so it is like using two of the same medium sized weapon (for example, the two-bladed sword does 1d8/1d8 with critical range of 19-20/x2, so it is like dual-wielding two longswords). However, because they are connected together, the off-hand weapon is automatically considered a light weapon, resulting in lower penalties. For example, if you have Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting and dual-wield two longswords, you get -4 penalty to-hit with each weapon. However, if you use a two-bladed sword, the penalty is only -2 to-hit with each weapon (since the off-hand weapon is considered light). The disadvantage is having to use a feat to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency, while the regular warrior types (and all elves) are already proficient with the longsword.

However, if you wish to be a Darth Maul-like dual wielder, go right ahead! My recommendation is to play as a human fighter, and take the following feats at the levels listed:

1st: Two Weapon Fighting, Ambidexterity, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (weapon of choice)

2nd: Weapon Focus (weapon of choice); you are more likely to find magical versions of a weapon in chests when you have a weapon focus :D

3rd: Power Attack (helps in bashing chests + sets you up to take Cleave)

4th: Weapon Specialization (weapon of choice)

6th: Cleave + one other feat of your choice (you get 2 at this level)

8th: Improved Critical (weapon of choice)

9th: Improved Two Weapon Fighting (weapon of choice)

If you play as a fighter of another race, you will take Exotic Weapon Proficiency at 2nd, Weapon Focus at 3rd, then probably take Weapon Specialization at 4th, then Power Attack and Cleave at 6th (though you might want Power Attack at 4th, then take Weapon Specialization at 6th, depending on your chest-opening ability). The feats at 8th and 9th would be the same.

Hope this helps!

AFAIK, the quarterstaff does not count as a double weapon. It doesn't say it is on the property screen. This is probably because pure wizards can use the staff at first level, and it would be rough to give a wizard a -6 to hit with a staff.

Hmmm...I was going by the manual and the PnP game, but obviously it is wrong within NwN. That means you are stuck using regular weapons until you get the proper proficiencies. Not too huge a loss, considering how easy the initial areas of the Official Campaign are.

Dual weidling rocks on rangers !

Why ?

Not only do you get the additional feats.

But YOu get ranger spells. Like Bulls Strength (adds a d4+1 str, lasts all day, so thats minimum +1 to hit and +1 damage right there to cancel out any penalties.)

And Cats Grace (adds d4+1 dex, so +1 to your ac, minimum, lasts all day, to balance out that you're wearing lighter armor)

And don't forget the fact that you're getting an extra attack in per round more than balances out the 2 or 3 or 4 points your ac goes down. Especially if you're racking up that strength. The extra attack, after all, hits at the same chances as your first attack, it's not 5pts back like all other additional attacks.

(edit)
Hmmm...I think I just remembered...paladins get bulls strength and rangers get cats grace...oops..ignore that...only mages get both....

Well...some potions for emergancies can balance out a lot...

[ 04-23-2003, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: koconnor100 ]

Im rather embarassed to ask, but, where do you see how many attacks you do per round?

never mind. i figured it out. sheesh, my ranger swings 5 times in a round dealing around 15-25 damage per hit!

Ah yes, there is nothing more fun than swinging sharp objects around like a mother@#!?&^% maniac...hell, that should be my sig!

I wish they had prestige classes in the OC; there is one introduced in PnP (Masters of the Wild sourcebook) called the Tempest. When he maxes out his level, he gets the same number of attacks (with similar bonuses) with his off-hand as with his main hand. He has the same restrictions as a ranger (cannot be a double weapon, cannot wear medium or heavy armor), so might as well be a ranger beforehand. However, 8 attacks a round is very, very nasty! :D