Can anyone explain, why exactly is NWN so great, and how it is different from just ANOTHER BG (Not counting graphics or 3rd Edition DnD)? BG was excellent, but the gameplay and plot sucked in BG2...

Well, the plot is completely seperate, NWN comes with a world editor, as you said, graphics and 3rd edition rules, as well as a bunch of fancy thingies...

The gameplay and plot sucked in BG2...? Goodness, have we been playing the same BG2? I mean, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but when you ask a question that derives from an acceptance of that statement, and the statement itself flies in the face of both sales figures and the consensus of CRPG players' opinions, you've got a bit of explaining to do. ;) BG2 has been the most popular and successful PC-based CRPG of all times. Gameplay-wise, it is a much richer product than BG1, offering--

a) A greater variety of quests (less of the purely FedX type)
b) More interesting party NPCs, often with their own, more complex quests than in BG1
c) Choices that allow you to take sides in major conflicts
d) A greater role for alignment (not that I like it, but it *is* there)
e) Far better movement algorithms
f) Less of the annoying, endless walking across empty wilderness
g) A more complex antagonist with a more interesting background and friends
h) More puzzles
i) Larger dungeons
j) Better map annotations.
k) A better method of tracking information
l) Much more dialog to make NPCS seem "real"

As for your question: NWN will focus on a single character, not a group. You'll have a follower or two, but they really won't be major NPCs as before. This is a deliberate decision, and one I frankly regret that Bioware has taken. Still, if they're doing the game, I'm willing to bet it will contain everything else that has made BG2 so justifiably popular. IMHO. ;)

The big difference will not be with the pre=packaged plot that comes with the game. No, the difference is in the fact that it is coded in such a way that it is very scriptable and that it comes with tools for users to make their own adventures that will be far more rich than what comes with the game. The adventure that comes in the box is just a sample, really. It might be fun, but it's not the focal point of the game.

People will have persistent worlds of their own making out there on their own servers.

Totally agree with above. IMHO, BGII was the greatest game ever, especially the NPC's which contained adorable ones like Imoen and Viconia.

Just want to know if we can download other peoples custom adventures, add that to our game, and then play as a single player campaign OR would we have to play online like multiplayer.

I'm pretty sure you'll be able to play them in single player as well as multi.

[ 04-26-2002, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Encard ]

Yes, according to the FAQ, there is a 50-60 hour single-player game, that I plan to play first to buff my character.

I just read a recent preview of the game and they described it pretty well, they call it a four module game. The first two modules are pretty standard for games recently, they are the single player and multiplayer parts, which will be similar to an upgraded BG2 type of game. But it is the other two parts of the game that will really make the difference and make this an incredible game if they are done right; the Dungeon Master client and the dungeon creation tool set.

The DM part will turn this into as close to a pen-and-paper RPG as can be...one player will have the responsibility of keeping the other players immersed in the game and making it interesting. This DM will be able to do anything they want on the fly...add creatures and treasure, inhabit NPC's, create dialog, inhabit monsters, etc. So if you're in a multi-player NWN game with a DM and you think the "AI" is boring, blame it on the DM. This aspect is very interesting, it's like having the game dungeon keeper and baldurs gate rolled into one, with both sides being played.

The tool set is also going to groundbreaking...can you say replayability? The dungeons will never end!!! I'm a huge fan of the Heores of Might and Magic series (which came with an editor), and if I ever wnated new maps to play I would just go online and download ones that others players created. I'm imagining the same thing here, an endless array of adventures.

If Bioware does this right, which they seem to be doing, this will be one of the best game in the last 10 years, with playability lasting a very long time. Of course, I'm a huge RPG fan, so I might be a little biased.

Nothing like big expectations, I hope my bubble doesn't get deflated.

I'm never in-sync with time or any awareness of it. Is 50-60 alot of hours to play? I know there's alot in BG2 with TOB. What's the number of hours for SOA?

They rate SoA at 200+ hours. Sure was for me, first time through.

Although I never played TOB, the quest in BG2 was lame IMO. I mean, you had to kill some guy who was doing "experiments" on you, and who was TOTALLY irrelevant to the BG1 plot...

of course the person who kidnaped your childhood friend, and was experimenting on you in order to awaken and then steal your divine soul, and you learn posses knowledge on how to unlock your inner powers isnt a very good motivation at all. and the fact that you finally become aware what truely lurks inside you demonstrating your centrality to the prophecy given by alundo that was btw stated in candlekeep at the start of bg1, as you then have to reclaim your soul and become launched even farther into the fray as it leads into ToB as the prophecy comes to its conclusion, your right that has nothing to do with BG1

[ 04-26-2002, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Aramil Galanodel ]

The main thing about NWN is the fact you will have interaction with other players and DMs. It's a real chance to roleplay in an otherwise sterile CRPG environment. That's the thing I look forward to- roleplay that makes sense for your character rather than being force fed a rigid plot.

For example, I am going to play a prostitute rogue character on a persistent world server ring. I plan on going on almost no major "quests," but rather intend on skulking in the streets on the bad side of some town and stealing and turning tricks. It will be a refreshing change to the forced marches on endless quests in order to get the "finish" point of a linear game. If this game is half as flexible as we hope, it will be groundbreaking.

Well, but this is the old singleplayer vs multiplayer argument, all over again. :D I think there is much to be said for both sides of the coin--and against both, too.

You refer to CRPGs as sterile environments; and certainly that's true, to the extent that you wish to roleplay and grow a character whose actions lie outside the very narrow possibilities supported by a goal-oriented, singleplayer game. However, a multiplayer environment doesn't automatically mean that your options for roleplaying are any broader, save for dialog. I've been on many formula MUDs that were just as restrictive towards roleplaying as the narroweest standalone games. In my experience (and I've been playing since the early 1980s), the broadest options were in text-based MUD spinoffs like DragonRealms--but I'm prejudiced. I worked for 'em for four years in my sparetime. ;)

I know that we tried to build in as many options as possible for the RPGer. We used to run fairs periodically, and I made up close to a dozen merchants with enormous stocks of items drawing their inspiration from various cultures. Much of the stuff they sold was pure RPG; even when it had magical effects, the effects were often as not intended to amuse, entertain, and add provide RPG "hooks" for players. I even built apartment flats (when we added player-purchasable housing) that deliberately sought to create a distinctive, non-Western cultural feel. I attempted to avoid doing the "Celtic thing" or the "AD&D thing" as much as possible.

I strongly suspect that NWN will definitely contain the AD&D thing--not that this is bad, but it shows the inherent limitations of graphical environments over text-based ones: words are largely eliminated as one of the most basic building blocks. This leaves me wondering how much roleplaying NWN can truly allow. Oh, I think it will be great, and provide a ton of scenarios very quickly that are ingeniously user-built. But I question whether the multiplayer aspect of NWN will truly open up a venue for roleplayers. Unless there are tons of non-goal-oriented things around to do, I imagine we'll have the same rewards-for-finishing-killing-quests that predominate in most standalone games.

Note, Katherine, you may want to check out Morrowind. Although it is standalone only, I am extremely impressed with its "freeform" aspect. Many quests have nothing to do with killing. It's possible to all but "win" the final conflict--or ignore the main plot, in fact--and never kill anything in the game. I've seen tons of RPG items. Well worth checking out.

I don't see what the argument is about since any RPG allows you to play single-player or multiplayer, with the same in-depth adventure.

[ 04-27-2002, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: Cornelius ]

Well, I think NWN will dominate online and perhaps offline gaming for years to come.

I guess you'd had to have played the traditional tabletop to understand the extremity and longingness towards this game. I haven't been able to play any games for the last 3 months... they all seem boring. I just can't get NWN out of my mind... I wasn't so serious until I found a really good enviroment of people that I could roleplay with on NWN.

Check it out if you want.
Norworld

[ 04-29-2002, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: Kelsoph-Syn- ]

Another way to look at it may be like this -

If you have ever played Half-life, you know it was a fairly good single player game. But it got boring quick. But the single player is not what made Half-life popular, game of the year for many years... etc. It was the user created mods like Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat, and Firearms. I feel much will be the same with Neverwinter Nights.

The customizable ability of this game will be "To-Die-For."

Cornelius~

how you could say that BG2 was lacking in plot and gameplay is completely beyond me!
i have never played a better RPG, or GAME for that matter, ever since it came out. i'm hoping NWN will be something special for me to sink my teeth into, but the basis of comparison will no doubt be BGII and Throne of Bhaal. They set the amazing precedent for any RPG coming out today, and definitely for NWN.

are you sure you played the same Baldurs Gate II as the rest of us?

<FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 80pt" face="comic sans ms" color=blue>Blasphemy!</FONT>

The truth i didnt like any of the D&D games from Bioware.
Playing an RPG in wich you control a party of adventurers does not lend itself well to the isometric view that these games have. (IMHO)

I enjoy the first person RPG like the Wizardry series.
But saying that i recently played Dungeon Siege and liked a lot about it.
Its not much of an RPG but they were able to make an enjoyable isometric rpg for me.
Maybe its because you only contrtol 1 party member that i didnt find the isometric as bad.
But prolly the reaason i liked it more is that u are able tomove the camera in any angle u wish.
i ended up playing the game almost in a third person perspective.
It was great.
But like i said before the game is very low on RPG elements so i lost interest in about 3 weeks.
but i played the game in multiplayer an average of 8 hours a day for those 3 weeks.
Now is NeverWinterNights similar to DS as far as letting you change the camera angle.
If it is then it will rock.
If they madee a game that blended some of the usability of DS and the RPG elemets of D&D games. It would be the best online game to play.