Now that I finally have my hands on a working copy of the game I've been exploring the character creation screen and have even braved the walls of town a few times experimenting. Here's your big chance to save me from my ignorance before I hamstring my party with bad decisions early on. This is what I've got:

Rane M Human Warrior (Plan for zenmaster. Points at creation went into making him eligible for barb class.)
Int 5+3 Spi 7 Wil 8 Pre 7+1 Str 12 Dex 9 Agi 10 For 12
Skill points into swords

Tempus M Whiskah Warrior(Plan for assassin. Again, I tried to make him barb eligible, but was short fort points.)
Int 5 Spi 6 Will 6 Pre 6+2 Str 9+3 Dex 7+1 Fort 9 Agi 9
Skill points into swords

Selene F Elf Warrior (Plan for valk. Again, tried to make her barb eligible but was short fort points.)
Int 7 Spi 7 Will 7 Pre 7+1 Str 9+3 Dex 8 Agi 10 Fort 8
Skill points into swords

Devlin M Rat Rogue (Not really sure where to eventually multiclass him. Thinking about Bard)
Int 9+1 Spi 5 Wil 8 Pre 4 Str 5+2 Dex 12 Agi 10 Fort 3+5
Skill points into traps

Qinn M Gnome Wizard (Plan to multiclass priest then warlock. Didn't really know where to put his points, so I just stuck them in int to give more skill points at level up.)
Int 11+5 Spi 9 Will 9 Pre 10 Str 4 Dex 11 Agi 9 Fort 6
Picked Burn and Shock as spells

Anthor M Oompha Priest (Plan to multiclass wizard then warlock. Points again went to int by default.)
Int 9+8 Spi 11 Will 8 Pre 8 Str 10 Dex 2 Agi 2 Fort 7
Picked Heal and Stink as spells

I have 1200 gold to my name. I know that I need to join guilds, but I wonder if I wouldn't be better served with some equipment right off. Any advice?

My biggest problem as I explore the game is with combat. I am obviously not used to the dynamic phasing system and find I don't have time to switch spells, etc. I thought this was supposed to be more of a phased rather than a real time system by default. Is there an easy way to set it to be more turn-based or do I just need to be faster about swapping attacks and the like?

The combat is "phased" by default no matter what you set in the configuration screen. You need to switch to "realtime" yourself every time you leave a town. Otherwise, the combat is phased.

You need not to haste with reequipping, switching spells and so on. You can even level up during combat. Next time try the following: do not move, do not attack, let the baddies attack you. They will attack once and then they will wait until you take some action. Then they can attack once again. The combat is phased.

Therefore, when your mage becomes active, select a spell for him without hasting, target the monster, and then fire. Your opponents must wait all the time and observe your preparations :D Later in the game, the phasing becomes a nuissance because it turns almost all monsters to ridiculous jesters, passively waiting for your killing them. The only dangerous monsters are those that can put an end on you with a single attack - well known salads but also certain stoning monsters or packs of monsters with very strong physical attack and with good chance to hit even a well flashed character (sharks).

About the combat. The monsters will close to attack range and then attack. They will then wait for your turn. You can get off the first attack if you are quick with a range attack (arrow or wizard spell. Be careful with Burn. Some fast monsters like worgers dodge it)

About the Money.

I usually do not spend much of the starting money on the first level characters. They die too easily. You can buy each character a Robe and Trousers and end up with an AC of 1. That seems to be the cheapest AC. Then you have plenty left over to get each a good weapon. Note the Oompha can wear the Robe but not the Trousers so will not be able to get to an AC of 1 cheaply. Mine always stay an AC 0 until I find something in the game for them.

The warriors can buy a Long Sword. You will find many rusted short swords and rusted long swords soon if you want to save your money. They can "punch" until then. You will find some Long Swords (non rusted) but it seems to take a while to find them.

The priest will most likely not hit anything even with a good weapon so I just give him the a club from a Gunni Troll. You should find a mace before too long and there is a Battle Mace in the Crypt.

The Wizard will mostly be using spells so don't buy a weapon. I usually end up giving them the Witches Stick that you will get from the Bone Lord before getting into the Crypt.

For the Rogue I usually give him a bow and arrows from the Gunni Trolls. They can not use Long Swords but can use Short Swords as well as a Rapier which I like giving them when I find one. Highland Rogues are good for dropping Rapiers as well as finding them in chests or coffins in the crypt.

You will find plenty of Primitive Bows and Willow Arrows if you kill the Gunni Trolls while they are shooting arrows at you. If you close to hand to hand range they will switch to a Club (or sometimes a rusted short sword?) with their next attack. NOTE: They only drop the weapon they are currently using when you kill them (Evidently they don’t have a backpack so they store their spare weapon in hyperspace). So when killing the Gunni Trolls you have to decide if you want a Bow or a Club. A Troll Mangu (the one that has a wooden Shield) will drop either a short sword (NOT rusted) or a Short Bow (better then a Primitive Bow). Yes, sometimes I will back up and move around until they switch and then kill them.

You will not get enough gold to get everyone into the guild, train, etc. (unless you use one of the money cheats) so you will have to play favorites. With your 3 warriors and only one having the stats for a Barbarian I would not spend any on the other two warriors. If they die just bury them (delete them in the Inn) and recreate a new replacement. The new guy may even have better stats.

With your group I see three things to spend the early money on.

Rane needs to join the warriors guild and request the switch to Barbarian. He will need to personally kill (final killing blow is enough) 20 critters before he will be advanced (yes, roaches and fish count). He may not get all those before leveling up once or twice.

Qinn may want to join the Wizard guild and train in either Sun or Stone (I usually pick Stone since he can become a Samurai and train in Sun then) and put all the leveling up skill points in the other.

Anthor may want to join the Priests guild and train in either Spirit or Vine (you may want to pick Vine since he can become a Paladin and train in Spirit then) and put all the leveling up skill points in the other.

For the last two. You will want to train in the guild each level or the chance is lost. The higher the skill level gets the more it costs. If you want the exact prices for each level I can look those up but it is 500 for level 1 and 900 for level 2 and seems to increase by about that 80% each time. It is not the full amount if you have part of the skill already and only need to "finish" to the next whole number.


Notes about skill Levels and skill Points (given at character creation and leveling up).

It takes one skill point to get to level 1, it takes 2 more to get to level 2 and 2 or 3 more to get the level 3. So at first it seems that training does not give you much but at higher skill levels the training is much faster then using only skill points when leveling up.

When a character reaches level 2 they will only get 1 skill point no matter what the Int. At 3 they will get 2 if they have an Int of 8 and at level 4 they will get 3 if they have an Int of 12, etc.

After you swich to a new class you will only get 1 skill point per level until you reach the highest level you reached in a previous class so in those you really need to use the Guilds to train if you want to get anywhere.


But in the end, no matter how you chose to play it you can make it work. To be safe, use all the Save slots. Some for long term in case you do not like a decision.

And tell us how it goes!

Thanks for the replies. The combat stuff has worked itself out nicely. The help regarding character planning is appreciated as is any other advice.


A quick question. I realized I am playing the unpatched game. How important is the patch? Are the save games compatible?

The save games are compatible.

If you are not having problems then you don't need to use the patch.

I use the patch myself. Here are some problems that I know.

Without the patch you need to be careful when moving items between character inside town. To be safe make sure you open the characters inventory and see the item before leaving them in the inn. I gues this is only a problem if you leave somebody behind in the inn.

Also you need to not change the active character in the building in the towns when they are being spoken to.

One other note about training new characters in the guilds. I would not train them (or even join the guild) until they have enough experience to become level 2. Then I would train them before I leveled them up. This way if they die and I replace them with a new character I haven't lost any money. Any equipment can be passed onto the new character. Hand it to one who is not being deleted.

Thanks very much for the help. It's very useful. A few further questions:

1. When training at guilds, should I train my stats or skills (ie.: int or sorcery, strength or swords)?
2. Is my rogue just out of luck guild-wise then? I don't seem to see a guild for rogues in town.
3. Should I buy and use the spellbooks? I seem to recall something about the proper way to max spell points, but I don't reall how it worked.

Finally, if you want to give me a nudge in the right direction I'd appreciate it. So far, all I've done is wander around the cemetary. I spoke with the snake man (told him Gareth was in town) and a dwarf or something that I couldn't say anything significant to. You don't have to kill yourself with a walkthrough, just a pointer in the right direction is appreciated.

[ 10-10-2006, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: leptomeninges ]

Looks like you have a good game going!! I have not played W&W so my advice is a bit rusty at this point but here it is:

1) I always did sort of a mixture but you'll find that the game is very nicely balanced and you'll be able to improve stats and skills nicely as you continue to play. Someone else may have some advise about doing one over the other.

2) Yes, for the time being your Rogue has no guild available - you'll find that in Ish N'ha when you get there.

3) I found Spellbooks to be handy now and then but if you're tight for cash, you probably can do without. It is good to have an idea what spellbook they can actually learn before buying one. I know I bought some that none of my characters could learn at that time so I dragged them around until they could.

Have you entered the catacombs in the cemetary?? - check out the gargoyles at the entrance to the tombs - move one of the heads and the doors should open. When you get down the stairs - look at the walls carefully for a lever for the next set of doors.

In the BEST TIPS thread there is a post explaining exactly what the patch does and what you loose by using the patch - it's worth reading. If you aren't having problems, don't patch! I never patched! ;)

Keep us posted on how your game is going!!!

I explored much of the crypt including the mummy's secret room. There are several areas I couldn't access , mostly behind grates (underwater and in the angel statue room). I never found the guy for the wizard quest. Exploring around a bit I found a group of thieves who seem like they could be friendly. Is this a good idea? Otherwise I'm just enjoying myself. Any suggestions on where I should quest next? It seems like several quest lines are pointing me towards nymph lake. Thanks again for the tips.

Party development-wise all my fighter-types are now barbarians. How long should I stay as a barb? Again, any advice is appreciated

[ 10-11-2006, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: leptomeninges ]

Sounds like you are doing great. Talking to anyone who does not attack you is a good idea.

When you went to the "mummy's secret room" did you kill the mummy and get the necklace?

If so, Read the necklace and then go back and Talk to the angel statue in front of the gate.

Thanks very much for the tip. I found my way through the gate and got the crystals. I arbitrarily chose the warrior's path. I am now down in the water area and at a bit of a loss how to escape. My real question, however, is about character development. My warriors are all now level 4 (barb 4/war 1) and have the fury trait. Is it time for them to reclass to something else? If so, are there any recommendations? Thanks again for the tips.

You are welcome. That's what we are here for.

If you are still stuck in the "water area" of the crypt them make sure you have flipped the level on the wall in the room where you meet Scabban. That will open the grate in the water on the level below. You can see it through the hole on the floor in Scabban's room. You can just jump down through the hole if you want.

About the barbarian changing class. It all depends on what you want them to be. They could stay barbarians for the rest of the game or they could go through all the 11 classes.

So the question is - What is their career goal?

You originally said that the 3 warriors wanted to become the Zenmaster, Assassin and Valkyrie.
The Assassin happens in the middle of the Ishad N'ha area. The other two do not happen until the last dungeon.

I usually end up switching classes above level 10 so level 4 seems a little low but if you have got what you wanted out of the class and want the skills of another class then switch. My goal out of a barbarian is usually to get lots of HPs so I wait until they get around 100 before I switch. I have played a barbarian all the way through the game and ended up with 500 HPs. Other times I am only after the lock picking still and switch off after level 2 so again -- there is no wrong way to play this game.

But be aware that several of the quests for the class switch can not be finished until you are in the Ishad N'ha area so I end up waiting until then for those.

[ 10-13-2006, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Law ]

Wow! Sorry for being out, folks... I am *SO* glad to be done travelling for a while!

Have fun! And remember, there are no bad answers... just choices.

Your playing great!
I started W&W long time ago, and now I have new game. Now I revelead new secret door, thet I never seen before!

But for a training in guilds..
When I have example Sword skill at 4 and Bow skill at 1. I train sword skill in guild, because I can raise bow lever easier into 2 than sword into level 5 when I gain level and increase skills..

And learn vine spell called Cure Poison before you enter the snake temple.

I use two mages. One focus on the sun spells, other in moon spells. That's how I gain both 7th level spells in early game. Then I switch another into bard and another into warlock.
Then samurai. That's how both of them gain all sun and moon spells.

I use 2 warriors too. I train one into barbarian, other into paladin. Then ranger and samurai/ninja.
My priest will get heal spells, then he/she focus at the vine spells. Same time my paladin trains healing spells.

And what skill do you might to want learn?
I train one of my warrior to use two weapons, and my rogue too. My rogue uses daggers and bow at combat, and joins into thieves guild and bushi dojo. I train him into assassin.

When you priest get's into level 2 at the priest guid, can he/she learn skill named ancest (something). Then he/she can train some artifact skill. That's quite good skill in the early game, because that how you can identify items by your self. (It cost quite much to identify all items at guids, and you don't want to miss wizard's blade for thinking it's just normal dagger..)

I think I heat up Sauna and start to play W&W again =) Good Luck!

Thanks for the replies. They're very helpful. I played my way up to the naga in the serpent temple this weekend. I'm actually in the process ofrerolling though. Somehow I felt that my group lacked "poetry." I'm trying to plan out my class changes and the like in a bit more detail this time.

I am curious about one comment. Is it really feasible to not use the spell books for spell acquisition? It seems that without using them one would be unable to get all the spells for each class. In my last game my priest and wizard were both nearing level ten (where I planned to reclass), and even using every available spell book there were still many blank spots in their books.

Another question. If I train someone as a bard and then reclass to something else, can they still use the music skill and musical instruments?

Thanks in advance for any tips.

It is definitely feasible to skip the spell books. You can still learn spells at every level up, so you'll actually learn them *faster* if you switch.

How? Let's say your level 10 wizard needs 100,000 XP to advance to level 11. That would gain her one new spell.

Change class, and that same 100,000 XP will take her from level 1 in the new class to around level 8 or so... eight new spells. And probably more, since Radek will pop up and correct my math errors :D

As for the bard, once you have other skills, you can keep on using them. So you can keep on using your instruments, I believe... but it's been a while since I played a bard, so I don't know for sure. Why not do an experiment -- save your game, change class, and try to use an instrument. If it fails, you can reload your saved game.

A character that was a bard can still play an instrument. I have an Assassin that plays just fine.

Switching to another class to get more spells is fine as long as you have all the high level spells that you want. The exception is if the new class is also "native" to the spell group. You may want to change to the Warlock class later so that you can get any spells that you have missed from all the spell groups. The Zenmaster at the end of the game also has this advantage but that may be too late. Spells that are in the first 3 levels are easy to get but above that it is harder.

I also just sell the spell books but I don't worry about getting all the spells anymore since I know what spells I will need and what spells I will never use so I can ignore them.

Spells that I find I miss if I don't have them are:
Illuminate, Incinerate, Firestorm
Lightning, Lavawalk, Meteorstorm
Great Heal, Restore Health, Resurrect
Cure Poison, Cure
Create Portal, Teleport, Call of Home, Icestorm.

Potions and scrolls can be uses in place of some of these.

Funny I can not think of any Fiend spells that I need.

Most of the time there is one spell in each level that I get first and the others I would not miss except for the 6th and 7th level Moon spells (but I frequently go though Bard and Ninja). Let me know if you want this list. Later in the game it is really easy and fast to go through the first 8 levels in a new class to get spells. In fact sometimes it is hard to only go up one level at a time, which is necessary if you are training in the spell group's craft skill.

Oh, how quite new thing to me..
But if you are bard and lern Music skill, then you can change class 'cause you learned music skill, you can inprove it anytime you gain class..

And for the spellbook question..
Don't worry. If you habe too much money, don't sell them end vica versa.

I teach rain-spells to my wizards first. then I enter into warlock or bard. I can train 2 levels / one level. If you are bard, you join in wizards guild. if you are warlock, you can train your skills in wizards guild and in priest guild..

I have early in geme three that controlls sun magic level 7. two with stone level 7. and moon and fiend level 7, before entering shuregon castle nor boogtre cave..

and my priest.. well I don't matter. let him learn all vine and spirit spells before entering into new clas..