Okay I bought this for my Mom when it came out. She died a few years ago and I remember that I had a good time helping her figure out some of the battles and puzzles. I like to play games fairly straight but I don't mind a small exploit if it makes the game more fun. Is it possible to play W&W straight without using guild-hopping, inn gold, etc? I've played the first outdoor areas, the crypt and the toads and just arrived in Ishad N'ha. I seem to be out of money almost constantly and I've only switched classes on a few characters. I'm using a party consisting of:

Tiger Warrior/Samurai
Dwarf Warrior/Paladin
Elephant Priest
Elephant Wizard/Warlock (for identifying stuff)
Ratling Rogue (for good loot and lockpicking)
Faery Wizard (seems like a Wizard needs to level quite high if they want decent spells)

Is this a finishable party?

The pixie outdamages all other characters combined. She has 172 kills and my next closest is 66 with the Wiz/Warlock.

Welcome to the boards, crpgnut!!!

Yes, it is very possible to play the game without guild hopping and the inn gold trick - in fact it is possible to play the game with Peasants!! (read Bungleau's threads about his peasant game - the related threads are all on the first page here).

One of the really good things about W&W is just about any party is playable. Sometimes it takes a little while to accumulate the gold you need and the experience you need but as the game progresses your characters will too! In fact I can't think of an unplayable party. We've had a number of players do solo games - just one character - which can cause certain difficulties but there are generally ways to work around any give problem.

Do keep us posted on how your game it going!!

Sorry about the loss of your mom!!

Wyv

Welcome to the boards, crpgnut! [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] May you soon find reward with your travels in the Gael Serran.

You certainly can play without cheating. Generally, it's up to you and your self-restraint, and your definition of what a cheat is :D

Later on, you can get a ranger with fletchery, who will make arrows in his spare time. Selling those is probably the "cleanest" way of making lots of gold... fletchery was part of the original game design, and you can fletch magic arrows as well as regular ones. There's a really good market for Dragon Arrows blessed to 11 or 12 damage... [img]graemlins/twocents.gif[/img]

Most CRPGs make the game harder by making gold harder to come by. W&W is no exception, really... if you're shy on gold, you're in serious trouble. I use arbitrage, which involves buying magic arrows for one price and selling them for a higher price. It's quite profitable, but as you can see in the peasant game, it doesn't help a whole heck of a lot. They're still getting slaughtered... and we're almost halfway through the game!

My first time through, I didn't know about any of the cheats or other things. My characters still finished as demi-gods.

I eventually found record of the cheats here, but aside from guild-hopping and arbitrage, I generally ignore them. I played with the "dropping items in stores" cheat last game, but it's pretty much pointless; if you're going to do that as much as I was, you might as well just use the character editor and set things where you want them.

I'll echo Wyvern... keep us posted on your game! There are always interesting things going on... we'd love to hear about them.

And I'll echo my sympathies on your mom's passing. The fact that you bought W&W for her says that she was a very unique and special person.

On my Mom:

In 1979 I picked up a game called Dungeons and Dragons at the University of Illinois. It became very popular at school and I wanted to try out DMing before running a campaign. Mom created a whole party using character names from Tolkein and we both became "fantasy freaks" from that time until I moved out of the house. When computers came out we bought a Vic20/C64/IBM and started playing Collosal Caves,Quest, and finally the SSI games: Questron, Phantasie, etc. We always had something to talk about on the phone because we'd play crpgs at the same time. She was a very good friend, who just happened to be my Mom too.

She was a smoker though, and she got pancreatic cancer. This generally kills very fast but we got almost two years with her because she went into remission for 19 months. Once the cancer ramped up again she was gone in 2 months.

P.S. Did you guys notice my register date? [img]smile.gif[/img] I'm a lurker.

[ 09-12-2006, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: crpgnut ]

I can second (or third) what the others have said. It is possible to complete the game with the group you have with no "cheats".

I have played (and finished) the game with only 4 characters (one each of the basic classes) with no use of the guilds and items from the stores at all. I did use the temple for healing in the early game until the priest got all the healing and cure spells.

So you can play it with a lot of money or with only what they earn themselves. I have done it both ways.

As you have noticed, in the early game, the wizard is the strongest class.

I've kinda decided to scrap this party and go much more magic heavy. My goal will be to create characters that can switch to spells very quickly. I'll probably try Samurai, Paladin, Priest, Rogue, Wizard, Wizard. Is it feasible to use the Paladin as the only healer? I might try Samurai, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Wizard, Wizard.
Choices, choices, choices....

A few questions:

If you don't start a rogue character, is there any way to get traps and locks skill without traveling to Ishad N'ha?

I like looking at maps after I've completed a dungeon to see if I've missed anything. I downloaded the all-maps file. Is that the best set of maps available online? Many, many links are dead that are referenced in earlier threads [img]smile.gif[/img]

The manual says that dexterity is the primary factor in determining whether a lock/trap can be picked. The in-game help file says that intelligence is the main statistic that determines success. Which seems to be true? In my very slight experience, intelligence SEEMS to be way more important.

One last thing: I'm the type of player who will roll all night trying to get the best scores. This is boring, but I like to start out tough. Has anyone made a set of roster.dat files that have legitimately rolled characters that got good scores? If so, feel free to email them to my nick at good old yahoo dot com [img]smile.gif[/img]

I rolled for two hours last night and I have two whole characters from it.

[ 09-12-2006, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: crpgnut ]

Almost any party will be god-like by the end of the game. I'd finish with your current party, and then try again with a magic-heavy one. And remember... the first time through is always the hardest.

That being said...

1. You don't need a rogue at the start. Convert a warrior to barbarian, and she can gain the traps and locks skill. That's all you need.

2. Did you check out bsftcs' maps in the sticky thread at the top of the forum? He identified the places where there are secret rooms in the game.

3. Personally, I don't see where either INT or DEX have an impact. Your traps and locks skill... *THAT* has an impact. Lightfingers, my peasant rogue, has no INT and little (less than 6) dex. Yet most of the chests in Shurugeon Castle and the Stout Mines were easy or in rare cases, moderate.

INT is used for determining mana points at level up and for determining skill points. You get one skill point for every four points of INT.

And 4: I understand, and I've done it before, and it's really pointless. I think Radek determined once that if your attribute points total 85 or above, you got a good roll. Since you get points at level up, then you'll soon be at that higher skill that you want. If I were going to spend an hour rolling up each character, I'd use the roster editor, give myself what I consider a good starting score, and go from there.

I do have the peasants that I can email you, but they're the opposite of "best scores" :D

Keep us posted either way [img]smile.gif[/img]

These posts have invalid links. I get the "dreaded red x" of deadlinking.

Hey, Wyv... I just checked, and it looks like you were hosting those maps at the border collie rescue site. They were in a wnw directory that's no longer there. Do you still have them? I can throw them in my Photobucket account if needed.

And bsftcs, if you happen into this before we get these up, send 'em my way and we'll get crpgnut going [img]smile.gif[/img]

I was amazed at how much of the crypts I had missed in my first playthrough. There are a ton of side passages up near Scabban that I never even saw the first time. Thanks to whomever added -light=16 to the command line options [img]smile.gif[/img]

You hid one of your questions from Bungleau.
"Is it feasible to use the Paladin as the only healer?"

I usually start with only one Priest who usually becomes either a Paladin or a Ranger (or both) to pick up more of the Vine and Spirit spells. Both of these advancements can be done in the Valeia area. If you are thinking of only being a Paladin, I would recommend that you train in Vinecraft until you get Cure Poison before switching to a Paladin.

One advantage of starting you Ranger as a Priest is that it can train in the Temple in Vinecraft. A Warrior/Ranger can not enter the Priests Guild (without guild hopping of course).

BTW: Since the Samurai quest requires you to be in Ishad N'ha you can't advance to that as soon as the other two.
You can start a character as a Wizard, train in Stonecraft until you get Meteorstorm and then switch to a Samurai
and train in Suncraft until you have Firestorm. Then you can use most weapons and armor as well as magic. And the HPs are not bad either (at least they are a LOT better then the wizard usually gets).

Good catch, Law!

Once someone knows spirit spells, they can be a healer, no matter what their current class is. So can a paladin be your only healer? Sure. It's easier if she starts as a priest, but you can convert over a warrior if you need to. And as Law pointed out, you can convert your priest to a ranger and still keep her as a healer.

Just do learn that cure poison spell before the Serpent Temple... ;)

Thanks for the tips folks. I don't get to play as much as Bungleau but I'll try to keep you posted on how my playthrough is going.

I will echo the welcomes. [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]

I don't play as much as you might think... I get an hour or two at the end of the night, after the rest of the house has gone to bed. But do keep us posted on your progress [img]smile.gif[/img]

Created my party anew last night:

Tigris Whiskah Warrior
Snouts Gourk Warrior
Euphrates Omphaaz Priest
Jammer Ratling Rogue
Elfira Elf Wizard (Sun Magic)
Styx Pixie Wizard (Stone Magic)

I'm playing the game straight except for turning spawns up to often.

If anyone has updated links to the maps with all the secret rooms, please let me know. I hate missing stuff [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 09-16-2006, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: crpgnut ]

A couple more questions:

Does it make more sense to leave the beginning chests alone until 5th of 6th level? It seems like ankhs start showing up around then fairly frequently.

Should I attempt completing the Crypts first or should I focus on role ascensions and guild leveling instead?

I've done the crypt to Kerah's statue and have just joined the guilds and am doing the barbarian quests for my two warriors. It seems smart to just go straight to barbarian instead of leveling any in warriors. Do you agree or disagree with this policy?

Try chests whenever you can. Even if they're difficult, you can still get 'em. May take dozens of attempts, but I've done it... the "tumblers" that are used do not change between attempts. Once you know the unused tumblers, stop and try again if they're picked first.

As for what to do first, the Crypt is an entry-level dungeon. It doesn't get any easier... and your first wizard's quest sends you into the heart of it. Plus, you can do the Rumphy and get lots of XP :D

And on the topic of warriors, as soon as you can change to a new class, do it. I sign 'em up for barbarian school as soon as they can afford it. They can usually get there by level 4 or 5... remember that they have to get the killing blow in on 20 critters.

BTW, glowflies, roaches, and rats count... and die nicely with a burn scroll :D

Following your suggestions, Bungleau, I went ahead and moved the two warriors to barbarians. Neither will stay there long probably. I'm going for Samurai, Paladin for those two I think. I'll probably finish the crypts as barbarians and try to get some extra hp before switching. I'll probably make my Omphaaz priest a Warlock soon though. It's nice to get the Artifacts skill going asap it seems. IIRC Warlocks can continue learning spirit and vine as long as you take at least one level in each before switching. Please let me know if I'm incorrect in this. My two wizards will probably wait til they have mastered stone and fire before switching classes.

You can train a priest in Artifacts without switching to Warlock. You just need to get to level 3 in the guild. That only requires delivering the potion and paying 500 gold.

Yes you can still learn spirit and vine as a Warlock if you started them as a Priest. But you may want to be working in the Moon or Fiend spells. You can only get one per level.

Thanks for the tip, Law! I remember that the priest has some necessary spells so I could switch one of the Wizards to Warlock instead. I'm not going to be in a hurry to switch classes. It doesn't seem to be too necessary, at least so far.

I know I'm gonna want the travel spells pretty soon. It is EXTREMELY boring walking back and forth all the time.

I you are going to switch to Warlock soon (in the Valeia area) make sure you hold on to any spider eggs that you find. They are rare in Valeia but quit common after Ishad N'ha (as the peasants found out).

Myself, I seem to avoid the Warlock class until late in the game, to get any spells that I have missed. I go through the Bard or Ninja class to get the Moon (travel) spells.

Of course there is no wrong way to play this game.

I cleaned out the crypt finally. I know I have to go back for the various guild quests, but I have opened up the whole map at least and took care of Scabban. My next step is to do some Valeia guild quests and open up the whole map to the Caves. I've only promoted my warriors so far. They are both Barbarians atm. I need to go on the other side of the warrior/wizard path next time I visit the crypts. I haven't cleared that part because I was completely full in inventory.

Hmmm... did you do the first Wizards Guild quest already? You're supposed to find out about Scabban... you may still be able to get credit, even though he's now dead.

LOL @ full inventory [img]smile.gif[/img] I've been in that situation often!

Sometimes, I find I've forgotten to stack things. Everyone may have a stack of some potions like cure poison, heal, great heal, stone to flesh, toughen, restore health, cure, bloodlust, and heroic might. Other stackable things, like arrows, knives, gems, skulls, and lockpicks can also take up excess space.

And sometimes, I just toss items away. Most of the swords you'll find are rusted short ones, so why not just leave 'em for the next guy? Daggers, too... they're worth next to nothing. And clubs? Sheesh! Firewood, that's all they are.

Keep us posted!

Blasphemy! I am king of the packrats. There is no such thing as a "left behind" item in my game [img]smile.gif[/img]

I did talk to the guild mage before whacking Scabban. Last night I took some potions to Mekdawa, and retrieved the saint's ring, and whacked Mon Sculz. Tonight I hope to visit Toad Village, and talk to the Oracles. I still need to take the Necklace back to the big-chested druid chick and then clean out everything south of the caves.

I'm on vacation all next week so I don't know how much game time I'll get.

After the vacation break, I just couldn't get back into this game. I've started playing ToEE with the Circle of Eight patch. Never got to finish that game.

Bummer :( W&W will come back to haunt you again later :D

Have fun with TOEE!