I would like to see how you guys decide to make your character (like whats important and whats not).
All of the chacter i make seem to turn to crap agter lv 10 or so. I would just like to be able to make characters that will last.

I will be very greatful for any help on this topic.


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WizardMen

It's really, really important to plan ahead for what you want. This may seem like it takes away in the beginning, but it really means for better play throughout the game.

Since you can only start with Warrior, Wizard, Priest, and Rogue, plan them out carefully. Also decide on the size of your party. Traditional party is 6 in size, which gives it more firepower, but it takes much longer to go up in levels because total XP and gold is split 6 ways.

Next: decide in advance your character's "career path." What do you hope to end up with at the ending of the game? A Zenmaster? Valkyrie? Assassin? Ninja? Samurai? Bard? Paladin? Plan accordingly. Start there, and work back. What path would give you the greatest firepower?

Also: pay attention to what you need to ascend to higher roles. Paladin, Ranger, Bard, Barbarian, and Monk can all be done in the Valeia sector. Samurai and Ninja require you to go to Shurugeon Castle, so plan those for "later" ascensions...especially since you have to go past the Mantraps. Assassins you can only get by going to the Stout Mines. Finally, Zenmaster and Valkyrie require you to be in Cet's Pyramid! Almost at endgame. Don't bank on those for long-term play unless you want to play through again with them.

Now, to start: A good mix for a 6-character party, for example, would be 2 warriors, a rogue, a priest, and 2 wizards. Don't put more than 1 rogue in a party, as they are very hard to ascend at first (you have to finish the Crypt and go to Ishad N'ha before you can do anything with them). In fact, some people argue against the rogue, as the barbarian does the same thing the rogue does with better HP, stats, and fighting ability. In such a case, you may want to eschew the rogue altogether and try 3 warriors (taking 1 to barbarian), 1 priest, and 2 wizards. If you want more magic power, do a balanced party of 2 warriors (taking one to Barbarian), 2 priests, and 2 wizards...however, this party will be difficult at first because of having so many non-fighters in it.

Decide next on when to time your ascensions. Priests and Wizards need to get their upper-level spells first, so make sure you let them get to a high enough level before you ascend them. Level 14 seems to be a "magic" level for them to make a good ascension. If you want to try it before that, the best thing is to concentrate them in the alternative magic school (Vine for priest, Stone for wizard), get their spells in that area, then ascend them to a role supporting the primary magic school (Paladin, Monk for Spirit Magic for Priests, Samurai for Sun magic for Wizards) and let them finish that out. The one exception to the rule is the Warlock ascension, which will let them learn all prior learned magic schools. plus Moon and Fiend, without penalty.

Warriors...plan to ascend them as soon as their stats allow. Wait no longer than about level 4 or 5 for them. Look to Paladin, Barbarian, and Ranger quests, as these can be done within the area around Valeia. Ignore Samurai and Ninja when you first start out, as you can't do them until you get past Ishad N'ha.

Rogues...if you use them, you'll have to wait to Ishad N'ha to ascend them. "Legally", rogues can ascend to Bard or Ninja. Bard can be done in the Serpent Temple (which you have to do anyway); Ninja requires you to travel to Shurugeon Castle and face the mantraps (which you don't want to do until you have the firepower for it). You can also "manipulate" your situation by guild-hopping; that is, accepting quests for ascensions you don't want, joining their related guilds, and then cancelling them. Just make sure you have the gold and stats for it.

On gold: there are several tricks for getting it, and it's advised that you try it at least on your first time through. The "arrow buy and sell back" trick always works, and it's legit...even in Valeia, although you'll have to do it a while. The "Inn Gold Bug" trick works too, but it's bug exploitation, so it's up to you.

Join as many guilds as you can. Train your characters in the major skills in the games, and put your skill points to work in other, non-trainable skills. Spellcasters: put spell points in Sorcery, and train your magic skills at the Guilds. Warriors: put spell points in Gallantry, and train your sword skills at the Armory. If your spellcaster is a warrior type, too, like Paladin, accord the skill points by how you want them...a fighter who can cast spells (more on Gallantry) or a spellcaster who can fight (more on Sorcery). Also remember to allocate points to Prowess for Samurai, Monk, and Ninja characters to give them a faster reaction time and more strikes per round.

On attribute points: Regardless of what else you do, make your goal getting your character's Intelligence to 16 ASAP. Every Intelligence point = 1/4 of a skill point, so you get 1 skill point for an Intelligence of 4, 2 for 8, 3 for 12, and 4 for 16. (Later, when you start using Ankhs, you can get 5 points for INT 20 and a whopping 6 points for INT 24!) Hint: Try to get your warriors to join the Wizard's Guild soon on (by guild-hopping, see Rogue above) and have them train their intelligence upward at the Guild. You don't have to use valuable attribute points on it, then, that would be better spent on DEX, AGI, and FOR scores.

If you have the gold for it, donate at the temples. Every time you donate, your prowess goes up 1 level (and you can make 1 major donation every character level). You can also get hard-to-obtain potions, such as Cure, Stone-to-Flesh, Mana Max (very useful), and Restore Health.

Hope this helps in getting started out. I'm sure there are others with more points to offer.

-Sazerac

Yeah, what Sazerac said! You can't get better advise than that, but one question please, how do your characters "turn to crap"??? After getting to level 10 of anything, they should be about ready to begin another role. Just wondered???

Mammawlin http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...ievalsmile.gif

Wowzah!

Now that's the best bit of NONspam I've seen!

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unlike this


Wyv

LOL

I stated the game with three Warriors a Wizards a Priest and
a thief played the game intill I messed up and killed the toads

reset game and now knowing what to do and having char 6 - 8 lv
with money the game got better


Hi Ho
Hi Ho
It's of to play we go




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Mr-E (like Mystery - kewl!)

It is a really nice feature that you can reset the game and still use the same characters. Gives you a chance to really get them going before you get to the tough bits (like the Lilies!).

How are you doing without a Rogue though??

Wyv

Wyvern: ROFL to earlier about the spam!! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

I think he has a rogue, from what he said...unless he deleted him/her?

-Sazerac

To really build character - fail! What doesn't kill us makes us stronger!


http://www.mibcr.org/smiley/NEWbounce.gif "!?http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gifhttp://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/frown.gif!?" What? oh - characterS er ah


To really build characters - fall!! What doesn't kill us makes us stronger!

Wyv

Saz - you are correct - he did have a "thief" listed in his cast of characters which somehow I managed to bleep out of my mind. You have to have a thief/rogue!! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

Wyv
(looking for her marbles)

I agree, Wyvern, on the rogue...you have to have one for the spirit of the thing! I love rogues, and it's a mean shame that W&W was designed against them so badly, especially in the beginning when it's crucial.

Daevi was my favorite character of the "fab four"...he's the one I'm still getting the most mileage out of on the story. I just have a soft spot for thievies...

-Sazerac

http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/violetb.gif Meet Violet, Red's long-lost sister! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Sazerac (edited 05-11-2001).]

ooooooooo Welcome Violet!!!

Did I ever tell you what my father wanted to name me? He wanted to name me after both my grandmothers. I'm very thankful that my mom choose otherwise! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

(I know this is a really silly, perhaps stupid, thing to post on the forum but being that this thread is about building character - er characterS - what the heck)

Wyv

designed against them? how so? http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/confused/qusans.gif

Ohhhh, Adam, I don't know....

(late Sam Kinison imitation here..)

maybe that you have to wait until you get to freakin' ISHAD N'HA before you can TRAIN them in ANYTHING! Or have them join a freakin' GUILD!! AAAH!! AAAAAAAAHHHH!!! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif

Okay, Sam Kinison aside (it's a joke, kids, for those of you who don't remember him)...that's why I said that. Why on earth Valeia didn't have a Thieves' guild? Makes no sense. Oh well!

I would have created a guild in Valeia, and had the first quest been the "Talk to Gorthius" quest, the second one be something with the Gypsies, and the third one the coin quest for the Serpent Temple. Or something like that. They could have done it!

If they had done the Serpin Coin quest in Valeia, it would have freed up one quest in Valeia that could have been, maybe, a quest to rob the Stout Mines treasury...a fitting Thieves guild quest, rather than just have it be something you stumble across arbitrarily.

Well, now, I'm rambling, so....but I could think of so many things they could have done with thieves in this game!

-Sazerac

Saz - agreed! It would have been so easy to have made a thieves guild and give them quests in the opening area - maybe they planned to do it but like so many things it got lost in production. I wish they would post a list of the things that got left out! lol!! (as if that would make me feel better! ha)

Wyv

Wyv: I bet Alzagor would have one! http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...es/biggrin.gif I know he's still around somewhere, because I saw a post from him the other day.

-Sazerac (getting ready to go to a chili cookoff...grab the Pepcid AC!) http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

Thx for the great info on characters.

Oh and what i mean when i say turn to crap is that the get beat up by even the weakest ppl and i just start to dislike them.

I'm so pro-rogue, it's not funny http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif Thieves always get pushed aside for the fighters and magicians. that's why I loved playing THIEF.

The base reason why Rogues weren't allowed to hit their guild until the second town is because we wanted each town to have something new added to it. A lot of the balancing issues bubbled up from not having time/anyone to test the game out with a fresh eye.

We brainstormed for almost a whole day (which is looooooong for company-wide meetings) on how to improve the Rogue and his thieving skills. I thought we came up with the elborate, but fun way of checking for traps, similiar to the one used in the old SSI Hillsfar game.

Anyone, including non-thieves, would get a base percentage chance of bypassing the trap without setting it off. If you had lockpicks (basic set, advanced set and superior set) you could jumble the locks and change your percentage rate, risking setting it off or completely disarming it. Then, people who didn't care, could just rip the chest open, others could take all the time in the world and slowly pick at the trap (which I liked). There was more to it than that, but I can't quite remember all the details.

We did have other features which I'm not sure made it in, like Stealth -- this made you almost invisible to other players (well monsters, since there's no multiplayer now). There was something like Backstab from the D&D system for assasinating people.

The Bard was originally in, then removed because it's hard to translate music into game mechanics (although Bard's Tale did a great job at that). It was switched to the Trickster (while I love bards, I thought the trickster class was a good alternative... very Loki-ish), so he'd be a thief-illusionist (then you'd get that stealth-feature thing coming into play). But it looks like Activision changed it back to Bard at the last second (or maybe HPI did after I left).

I wanted to see the thief class be just as important as the others, even throw in other features like wall-crawling or something. The original crypt (as well as the one I redid) had a THIRD passage in the Two-Urns puzzle -- a secret passage that only the rogue class could find and take http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

"Ugh, More T, More T!"
"I pity the fool who try to give more T than me!"

http://www.tgeweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/no...s/bluegrab.gif
bump

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Hi Ho Hi Ho
It's of to play we go


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