Called Activision today. Thet were clueless for the most part. There was one suggestion that made sense though. I have a Diamond Monster MX300 sound card. It turns out that there are NO DIRECTX 7 COMPATIBLE DRIVERS FOR THIS CARD (thanks S3). This could be the problem. What I would like to ask is: Anyone out there who is having the desktop crash problem, are your audio drivers DirectX 7 compatable? They way you find this out is; go to Program Files\DirectX\setup\.
Double click on DxDiag. Go to the tab that says sound. All the way over in the upper right-hand corner, a sound driver is listed. If it says 4.07.xxxx or higher it IS DirectX 7 compatable. If it says 4.06.xxxx or lower it is DirectX 6 compatable not DirectX 7. Is there anyone out there, who is having this problem, who has DirectX 7 compatable drivers? If so, then this solution is a Red Herring and should be ignored. Any feedback from the forlorn folks that Activision is TOTALLY IGNORING would be welcomed.

p.s. They told me that they know of the problem and that they are currently "compiling information". Maybe if they compile information for long enough, the game will drop off the map and they won't have to support it at all. I wonder how many months it will take. Good thing they don't make pace-makers.

Not to dispair bud! They ARE FAST in fixing these things. Trust me. I DO NOT use Direct X 7.0 or the new patch released, but I have a Sound Blaster X-Gamer 5.1 Live! sound card. Funny though, the S90 by Diamond works with this game.

TRY THIS: Uninstall the game. DO NOT install Direct X 7.0 - try it. I didn't install it and the S90 card ran without a hitch! Same with my SB 5.1 X-Gamer.

Try it. If that doesn't work, keep on Activision for the patch. Actually Heuristic Park is writing all the patches and they are fast with the problems they're facing. Just keep a little faith - they'll get it to you.

Sincerely;
Druadic

WAIT! I remember seeing a patch for that card. Let me look for it and I'll get back to you soon - if not tonight then tomorrow. Pray I find it again.

I'll look and look. Post a message here to get my attention and I'll run right back and check for one from you. I SWEAR I saw one. Hold on!!!

Druadic

Thanks Druadic, I did not install DirectX 7 at the time of installation, I never install it when prompted because I always have the current version. Right now it is DirectX 8.0a. I think you have missed my point. The drivers must be DirectX 7 compatible or over. Not the other way round. The problem may still lie in the sound drivers. Again does anyone who has DirectX 7 COMPATABLE sound drivers have the same problem? This is the question. I don't want to buy a new sound card but I will if it fixes the problem. (Monster Sound MX300 is a little old).

Try here:

http://www.vortexofsound.com/drivers/drv_m39x.htm

These are the LATEST drivers for ALL Aureal sound cards which INCLUDE the Diamond Monster 300. Read it carefully. I THOUGHT I saw this page before!

If this helps PLEASE post back here. If not, I can always keep looking http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif

This is the drivers that control the "loss" of sounds and problems with the Aureal cards. Good luck bud!!!

Sincerely;
Druadic

Druadic wrote "Actually Heuristic Park are writing all the patches", all the patches? As far as I know they've only made one, are there more? If so then I probably won't need them but it's nice to reassure other people who do that someone somewhere is dealing/ has dealt with their problem.

------------------
Balgin, the Dwarf

Each company that WROTE the game (HP) must write the patches. It's normal for this to happen. Actually, I've heard they wrote two as far as I know. They then combined them into the one that has been released.

I've been told that they are on the work of others at HP. So, I'm sure they're really busting their behinds to get this game working for everyone.

I have no problems like I said, even without Direct X 7.0 and the patch, but there are people out there with "certain" hardware issues and this matter IS BEING ADDRESSED. Trust me, it is http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif

Druadic

Tried the suggestions about the driver updates from the Vortex website. Now the game crashes on the title screen. Is this a step forward or a step back? It may be an improvement, i.e. a new problem. I think I need a different sound card because there are nodrivers made fo the MX 300 that are DirectX 7.0 compatible. I was told by an Activision rep that the game has issues when running DirectX 6.0 or lower, and that ALL the drivers had to be DirectX 7.0 compatible or higher. I'm sure that this is erroneous seeing as there are many people who are running the game on DirectX 6.0. "We don't know how to fix it so we'll make something up. That'll keep 'em busy for a couple of days".

Thanks for all your feedback Druadic. How long does it take to come up with a fix? I have seen messages, in ths forum, in regard to this problem, going all the way back to December. It has been over three months now. This should be more than sufficient time IF they have actually been working on it. Frankly, I'm skeptical.

Well my sound driver is version 4.11.01.0711. I have a Sound Blaster Live Value card with DirectX 7.0a installed. I was crashing very irregularly at the beginning (without the patch) when I was creating my characters. No crashes after the patch. (I've just gotten to Ishad...)

I've been bitten so many times with game installs that I really prepped for this one. Ran scandisk and defrag and made sure I had a lot of extra space for virtual memory before installing.

Win98 SE
PIII 450
128 MB RAM
ATI Rage Fury Video with latest driver
Sound Blaster Live Value with latest driver

Win98 SE
PIII 450
128 MB RAM
ATI Rage Fury Video with latest driver
Sound Blaster Live Value with latest driver

PERFECT! An ATI Rage Fury (which I have), a Sound Blaster Live (or X-Gamer compatable / Which I have), I have 512MB of RAM, an AMD Athlon Thunderbird at 900MHz and run ALMOST the same OS, but I have the THIRD release.

These items should all work like they did for you.

NOW, I will admit the Diamond Sound card S90 (Sonic Fusion) HAD TONS OF PROBLEMS BEFORE this game. I have NO IDEA why. I will admit though once I got rid of the card and got an X-Gamer ($79 at Best Buy) I had NO SOUNDS PROBLEMS. But the S90 ran without a hitch on W&W. The other games it bombed out!

Don't ask, I have no idea why. I personally think the SB AWE 32 was 200 times better than the Diamond Cards. Diamond has a few problems - the S3 cards mostly have sound errors when games ran on my S90 and they were either scratchy or they just refused to load. Maybe it is best that you do get a better sound card TODWEST. I also know that 99% of the ATI cards work EXCEPT FOR THE DDR memory ones. Like I said to the people on the HP forum, the DDR memory has too many bugs and is still in the BETA stages. But of course the companies will STILL RELEASE the items in a frenzy to sell them as fast as they can. Notice also DDR memory chips are not easy to find and buy. They are overpriced and can't be found at 99% of the stores. New motherboards are going to use them, but unless they fix the problems then they'll bomb out of that "technology" too.

Good luck TODWEST. Get an SB X-Gamer or just any Live! version and you'll be MUCH happier. Trust both of us!!!

Sincerely;
Druadic

Todwest,
Prior to installing W&W I had updated DirectX to version 8.
The game crashed often, froze repeatedly, and finally locked me either in or out of The Serpent Temple in EVERY saved game, including those prior to having even reached Ishad N'ha.
Not only was part of my problem having a bad stick of memory, BUT My boyfriend said that he read some reviews on DirectX 8 and it was being said that it is not compatible with ALOT of games on the market and was proving to hinder rather than help gamers play without game errors.
Unfortunately, DirectX 8 does not have an uninstall option.
Knowing it was time for me to clean house anyway, I reformatted my hard drives and reinstalled everything I needed to run Windows.
I re-installed W&W and let DirectX 7 be installed with the CD and viola, the game has played error free ever since.
Your problem could lie with DirectX 8.
I am not knowledgable enough to take you step through step of the removal of DX8 short of just reformatting and starting from scratch.
Maybe one of our wiser forum members could help you out there.

: )
Moni

P.S. My DxDiag through the sound tab says 4.05 regarding the sound drivers for my SoundBlaster 128.

: )

[This message has been edited by Moni (edited 03-12-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Moni (edited 03-12-2001).]

A reformat is the only option with all DirectX products unless you are upgrading. At least that's what I've been told. Of course that's probably wrong. And seeing as I can no longer run any kind of video without the computer crashing, I will be spending all f***ing day doing just that. I wish that ONE manufacturer in the PC industry, just one time, would release a product that actually works. It seems to me that the best you can hope for these days is a product that might work for 95% of the people out there. As I said in an earlier post, it's a good thing that they don't make pace-makers, or ANY OTHER PRODUCT UNDER THE SUN. Have you EVER heard of a recall in the PC industry? I sure haven't. Why do we let them get away with this? They say that they are forward thinking innovators, but can't seem to make one single product or application that works every time. I wait with baited breath for such an occurance. They are crooks and are now getting their just desserts with the NASDAQ breaking the 2000 support level. I hope they ALL go bankrupt!!! We need new blood

hav eyou tried disabeling your sound card in windows then running it..? i had that problem with darkstone... i have to play it without sound, it runs the intro sounds fine, bu twhen i step up and hit a creature, or any "triggered sound" it locks my box up solid...

about computer games working for everyone, all teh time...

actually, with all the different hardware, OS's, software, TSR's, and just about anything found on someones computer, its very difficult to write something that will work for everyone from the very start... you would have to strip out a lot of the cool stuff to insure that it works... and then theres problems with our own computers that we dont see... things like video cards heating up and locking the games up which has happened to me on D2 even though it doesnt on any other game... in order to play D2 i have to put in a spare video card which i have laying around the house...

im another sorry sap i bought a diamond monster fusion voodoo2 3-d card and it sucks there are no patches for it ,only banshee patches that change its name and make many games incompatible with it , i have a soundblaster 512 sound card that is fine no problems there plenty of ram and speed pent 2 300 196 megs ram
20 gig hard drive, and yet my game crashes :
A)loading a game http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...s/confused.gif
B)saving a game :sad:
C)entering town :angry:
D)leaving town http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...les/tongue.gifissed:
E)looking at the jounal http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...smiles/mad.gif
F)entering or exiting dungeons http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...les/mad111.gif
G)every time the game starts the deepsix program has a FATAL error even though
the game will play ok http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-.../smiles/ak.gif

i have the patch and that didnt change a thing and i also have directx7.0a

Dr. Orangutan,
Your problem apears to be a bad install of the game although I can say that with total certainty.
My first install after the reformat did not allow me to click on the computer icon to change anything in the game i.e. graphics, sond, spawn rate, etc without Deepsix commiting a fatal error and locking up my system.
An uninstall, followed by deleting the leftover folders, followed by a re-install fixed it.
You can copy your save folder away from the game and put them back as so not to lose them and them copy over the new empty folder when you reinstall.
Carg says to copy your roster.dat file as well although I didn't and the game did not have any problems recognizing my older saved games. Maybe I just got lucky. ; )

Todwest,
SO sorry you too had to do the whole reformat thing. I sincerly hope that you can get the game working with your system.
Big Hugs,
Moni

Here's the verdict. After the reformat and getting rid of the dreaded DirectX 8.0a, what do you know, the game runs fine. Another fine Microsoft product. Thanks for all the feedback and help guys. I shout this from the highest mountaintop, do not use DirectX 8.0. It will not let you revert back to any earlier versions of the product. You have to REFORMAT in order to get rid of it!! Stick with 7.0 or 7.0a until there is a stable version. Maybe it would be best to skip this generation entirely and chalk it up as a misfire. Hopefully DirectX 9 will give you the old options. We should let Microsoft know about our displeasure.

Thanks,
todwest

Todwest,
Glad you got it all working well finally!
It sux to have to go through so much trouble to put your machine back into working order when someone you trust (Microsoft) puts out a bad product.
I would get in line to tell them what I think of it but they are big enough that they don't have to listen and I doubt that they would.
They had to know that DX 8 was a piece of garbage and they should realize by now that they can't force the market to upgrade with every new opportunity anymore.

: )
Moni

Yeehaw, Todwest!! I'm so glad for you! I've been following this thread with considerable interest, although I made no post, because frankly, I couldn't figure it out! To think it was DirectX 8.0 that was the culprit.

Well, that's Microsuck for you. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...s/rolleyes.gif Why else do you think the U.S. Department of Defense completely abandoned Windows NT and Windows 2000 as operating systems and have fully embraced Linux Red Hat? Says a lot, I'd say.

Hope everything works well for you now!

-Sazerac

TodWest, Good job on fixing the Error. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif

Now the question I put before this board is. What if you don't or can't reformat your drive to get rid of DirectX 8? I mean I haven't had any problems with DX8 with any other piece of software. And as much as I would like to lay blame on MicroSoft. I sorta can't on this one. HPI or Activision should have caught this problem by now and have released a statement that Wizards & Warriors is not compatitable with DirectX 8.

Also, Don't forget why we all have Window PC. It's because gaming companies don't write programs for Amiga, Atari, Macs, Apples, UNIX, VAX, OS2, BeOS, or Linux. http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/smile.gif

Hiya Zardon and welcome to the forum!
Actually, I believe that DX 8 was released AFTER W&W so HPI could not have known that W&W would not be compatible with it.
The same can be said for the rest of the games on the market that DX 8 makes unplayable. It is geared for state of the art components in your PC...something not all of us are fortunate enough to acquire at a moments notice.

I have never tried it but I would think that clearing your registry of any and all references to DX8 might work in getting rid of it, as well as editing it out of the system.ini and win.ini files if they contain any references to it.
I am only guessing here though and would be afraid to restart without attempting to install DX 7 because I am clueless as to what other files it may leave in your system that could possibly render a reformat necessary or if the above tinkering could leave your PC unable to accept DX 7.

A good question. : )
Maybe someone else can enlighten us.

: )
Moni

Very interesting point about the DoD. I did not know that they had abandoned Windows, etc. Very telling. I have been saying for years that Micsosoft operating systems are perhaps the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the American public. In dollar amount, the only thing that rivals it, is the S&L scandal in the late 80's and early 90's.
You slap a GUI on DOS and say it's an innovation. You put out a clone of Mac OS and say it's a major breakthrough. You publish a book (Gates) in 1995 that DOES NOT CONTAIN A CHAPTER ABOUT THE INTERNET UNTIL THE PUBLISHER OF THE BOOK STARTS ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT IT! How prescient!
What Gates and company are doing will eventually fall under the microscope. When history examines Microsoft in the future, they will finally be seen as the Robber Barons that they are. But the fault is not theirs alone. The Justice Department has rolled over like an old blind dog when it comes to enforcing anti-trust laws and they are as much to blame. When the GAO has the same level of computer literacy as the Silicon Valley crowd, this type of scam will stop. Operating systems will be public domain in the future and I look forward to that day.

todwest

Hear, Hear! *applause* Very well said, Todwest! I agree fully, and tend to rant about that same thing to my students. In my experience, it's very rarely the application that's the problem, but rather the OS.

Pushing up the topic for the benefit of Reiayanami...

-Sazerac

There used to be a MS KB on what specific folders and files you need to make a perfect system backup. I don't know if prior to installing DX8, and you did this, if you could revert back without DX8 still being there. Wish I could find this KB again.

All I remember is backup all files in root, windows\system (which backs up registry), and some other folders in the windows directory. If anyone knows what this KB number is, please let me know!

I can Image my C: drive or just my Windows directory to another partition. That's not the problem. I don't want to get rid of DX8. I have had no problems with it or any other game besides Wizards & Warriors. So reformating my computer is not an option of a $50 game.

Topside too since it is related to crashing http://www.tgeweb.com/ironworks/cgi-...iles/frown.gif