Inspired (ripping off) Krunchy's thread, how should a Paladin be used in a regular 6 man party? Mutliclass? Singleclass? Race? (Aasimar IMO)

IMHO, I think a paladin is best as a tank, with 4 levels of fighter mixed in.

If you want a better spellcaster, a small dip into the paladin class works wonders for a sorcerer or cleric. (divine grace at level 1, immunity to fear at level 2). Combining with a monk is awesome, as is a monk/paladin/ cleric x

Multiclass that fool, and be sure to use a drow! Paladins make nice add-ons to both sorcerer and mage characters (especially sorcerers). Also, the magic-resisting paladin item stacks with a drow's innate resistance, effectively granting spell immunity. :D

Oh, there's something to be said for a pure-class paladin. A pally with a good CHA can really pile up the Lay Hands healing. Four levels of fighter are a nice addition to a Pally of Helm, but they're hardly make or break.

I suggest having at least one FUll paladin class, i have a ASamir paladin and a drow paladin/mage, because you want to boost up your paladin as a tank and for dialogue, make them have good Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimadtion checks, you would be surprised how beneficial they are

I'd rather not use paladin for dialogue because of their refuse-reward policy.

Agreed, bards or sorcerer IMO are the main talkers, which leads me to question the usefulness of Pallies, in regards to the need for charisma.

Pallies are perfectly acceptable talkers, EXCEPT for when you are collecting a reward. Oh, if you're looking for a talker to be good at all of the talking skills, look elsewhere. But otherwise, Pallies are OK.


On another point...


Pure pallies are perfectly playable. Yes, 4 levels of fighter to get full specialization (or whatever it's called) is useful, but hardly make or break.

OTOH, even 1 level of fighter (or any other class) does have one effect on a pally. I'm sure that all of us IWD2 veterans have noticed that pure paladins cannot put on the initiate robes at the Yuan-ti temple, but a multiclassed pally can. I guess that it depends on how you prefer tackling the snake temple.

Never done the snake temple with a pure pallie. Still I always have a pallie/fighter4 in my party, I love to take advantage of that awesome sword, I prefer Str to cha.

The pallie also makes some quests easier...

Ale_beer, I've done the "snake temple" with a pure pally. All it really comes down to is you don't have the option of being sneaky. You go in. Baddies see you and go hostile immediately and the hilarity begins.


I think that having too low of a CHA in a pally is really wasting the class. Two of the great reasons for taking lots of pally levels is to get Lay Hands and the Divine Grace ability that adds your CHA bonus to all 3 saves. If you have a rather lowish CHA (say, 14 or less), you are severely limiting the value of these two abilities. (It also impacts the Smite Evil ability, although I've actually never used it.)

Personally, I like to surpress WIS a bit in a pally and use some stat increases to bump it up, while waiting for the All Gods ring that gives +5 to WIS.

So what would be good starting stats for a Paladin, Aasimar or Human?

Here are a few examples of pallies I've played.

Aasimar: STR 18, DEX 10, CON 16, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 16

Elven: STR 16, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 8, CHA 16
This particular pally was very amusing to play. She was a not so bright Elven Pally of Mystra (pure pally all the way thru Normal and HOF). I intentionally too a higher DEX and a less than max STR for RP reasons. Nya was a pally who was equally adept and willing to fight with long sword or the bow.


Aasimar: STR 18, DEX 10, CON 16, INT 8, WIS 14, CHA 14

Aasimar: STR 18, DEX 10, CON 18, INT 8, WIS 8, CHA 18

Aasimar: STR 18, DEX 13, CON 15, INT 8, WIS 8, CHA 18
This one is a character that I intend to use in my next party who will be a rather different sort. She's designed to be a Ftr X/pal 2. BTW, I took a DEX of 13 (and CON of 15) here because I wanted her to be able to take the Dodge feat. Maybe I'll bump it to 14 and maybe I won't. I will likely give her one of those rings that has a +1 DEX bonus, but it may not matter that much since she'll likely be wearing plate anyways.


Regarding the initial question about the best race for a pally, Aasimar is absolutely the most obvious good choice. The added stats come in very handy with only a -1 ECL for a class that doesn't really matter that much when it comes to a -1 ECL.

I don't particularly like humans in IWD2 for pallies. IMHO, humans are best used for classes where you want to accrue plenty of skill points. Ihe +1 SP/level is the rough equivalent of +2 INT. But this is not terribly important for a paladin.

I suppose that half-elves, moon elves, or wild elves wouldn't be bad for paladins. While the +2 vs Enchantment bonus isn't critical with a pally's Divine Grace, it's not bad either. The other elven bonuses really wouldn't come into play.

Drow have real potential as paladin's. All those extra stat points are really good. And the +2 vs. Enchantment, and the +2 to Will saves are nice bonuses on top of the usual Pally abilities.

BTW, keep in mind, that any elf, moon, drow, or wild, will be taking the XP penalty with many potential multiclass options for a pally. No, Pal X/Ftr 4's here without the 20% hit. I suppose an elven pally of Mystra/wizard is a viable option, but it would certainly be a stat nightmare.


There might be something to be said for a golf dwarven pally. Lots of useful bonuses. I'd suggest Gold Dwarves, since their -2 DEX penalty is less onerous than the Shield Dwarves' -2 CHA penalty.

It's hard to see a gnome or halfling pally, since there seems to be little benefit to be gained from the racial choice beyond mere roleplaying reasons. I suppose that a really adventerous player might try a gnome pally of Mystra/illusionist multiclass just for yucks.

Half-Orcs, Tieflings, Duergar, Deep Gnomes all have CHA penalties, which would tend to make than less than favorable racial options.


In the end, I think that most everyone would agree that Aasimar are the one race that cries out "Paladin" when you look at their racial bonuses.

[ 01-17-2006, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: Magness ]

Aasimar cries out Paladin, but so does Drow. Remember, Drow have a high innate magic resistance. It is nice on it's own, but adding +15 to it with the CS makes this guy untouchable.

It's a stat nightmare, and can't be done without powergaming, but my Paladin2/Ranger1/MageX/Theif1 combo is extremely powerful. This isn't a tank paladin, though he can get into the action with dual wielding shortswords and later the CS. As a drow, he has a huge amount of INT, giving him great mage potential. With 20 DEX and INT, a single level of theif takes care of all theiving abilities for the game, the paladin levels grant fear immunity and a few helpful spells (and the Sword), and the ranger level further boosts melee capability and gives free dual wielding.

Stats are something like this:

STR 12
DEX 20
CON 16
INT 20
WIS 6
CHA 6

With points deductable from any stat to be added to WIS or CHA to make this guy less lopsided.

Consider the above build if you want a paladin but already have a tank or two.

Marty, the primary reason that Drow don't hit as crying out "paladin" is because my first impression when I think of a drow is evil, not paladin goodness. That said, their racial bonuses are outstanding for paladins.


As for the example pally build you list above, it's not my cup of tea. I never play any multiclass that has more than two classes. They simply seem too contrived for my taste. I may optimize my characters' stats to get the most out of them, but I try to maintain a modicum of role-playing reasonableness in my parties and characters. I like to be able to justify the class combos I play or I will not play them.

But if that combo works for you, enjoy. ;)

I prefer the Pally/Cleric of Ilmater.

Powerful stuff as long as you can grab a Wisdom boosting item (to boost spellcasting), fully buffable and a great secondary cleric with tanking capabilities.

Plus, having someone fully capable of casting Raise Dead on the primary cleric is always a plus should you run out of scrolls.

(But it's the buffs that really make this build shine. Tons of buffs! :D )

OTOH, I've made a ridiculous Pally of Mystra/Wizard before. Was funny abusing the Melf's Minute Meteors bug for 5 APR with that Gsword the half-dragon drops XD

Of course, that was in my bomarbier party, where I had 3 arcane casters (two wizard multiclasses and a sorceror), 2 divine casters ( cleric and a druid/fighter combo), and then a drow monk (unhittable goodness, but with an ECL I can stand)

Neo, I'm not sure that I'd really consider that Pally of Ilmater/Painbearer much of a Pally, if you've built up enough cleric levels to be a good spell caster. That's not to say that he wouldn't be a great character, just more of a glorified fighter/cleric with some of those nice, low level pally benefits. ;)

Pretty much, but it was a fun character and a nice backup cleric. Harm/Heal as a domain spell is pretty nice :D

(Besides... I never could get Smite to work right [img]tongue.gif[/img] )