I read various comments about that a pure thief(or at least his skills) is not necessary to finish the game but i think marty4 said youll be needing them later in the game? Is there a lock that must be picked or a door? How did those sorcerers solo the game then? Knock?

There is one point in the game where an unavoidable trap can completely prevent continuation of the game without sufficient theiving skills. My solution to wasting as little time as possible with thieves is to take a drow ranger1/rogue1/paladin2/mage, with 20 DEX and INT. Take the rogue level first, and you will have enough skill points to last the entire game, including the above trap.

With a solo sorcerer, I kinda cheated and brought in a level 1 rogue for that trap, and dismissed him afterward. Not sure if there is another solution.

Keep in mind that a pure rogue, while I never use them, can be a powerful fighter. Grab all of the rogueish feats like hamstring, pick up two shortswords, and your rogue can become a deadly flank attacker or first striker.

oooh Marty, I almost didnt recognize you in the new outfit :D

I just wanted to ask you what trap are you talking about ??? :confused: (finished the game twice so please spoil me). I always take rogues so thieving skills in good supply.

Powerfull fighter? I and my friend will play multiplayer again after a long pause, but we lost the saves so if he goes with paladin3/sorcererX i need to go with somebody able to detrap it. If i remeber disarm trap is affected by inteligence modifier so what would you propose?

Minor spoilers
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I was refering to the pair of pit traps in the Yuan-Ti temple. Unless I missed something, there is no way to get out of them short of disabling the trap.

@ Saverico:

The class that I mentioned above, the drow ranger1/rogue1/paladin2/mage, would fit your party perfectly. You will have 20 INT and DEX. As you level, you will be putting more points into INT (which will make you both a better mage and theif), and you can use a certain DEX +5 item to its max potential by giving one of your developed points to DEX. You will wind up with stats like so:

STR 12
DEX 26
CON 16
INT 26
WIS 7
CHA 5
(with heavy powergamed stat location).

The 26 INT and DEX will suit you for the entire game, even with only one level of rogue. Keep a few potions of master theivery just in case, and learn knock.

This combination of classes doesnt seem to make sense to me. Ranger level whatfor? If dual wielding weapons i would have to take weapon finese feat to make use of dexterity. Rouge OK. Two levels of paladin? Only thing i can think of would be imunity fear, but no casting(low wisdom) no bonus to saves(low charisma). if then why not leave out paladin?

Drow: 11+character level of magic resistance
Ranger: Dual wielding for free, favored enemy, better BAB and fort save than mage. What's teh problem with Weapon Finesse, ofcourse you'll need it, why not take it?
Rogue: 1d6 backstab, a huge number of skill points, especially if you start the character as a rogue. Further levels of rogue are unnecesary if you are aiming for Imp Evasion, see next
Paladin 2: Better BAB and saves than mage, fear immunity, useable Holy Avenger for extra 15 spell resistance. More levels will enable the Heroic Inspiration feat, which is good, but not worth further diluting the mage.
Mage: Power
I'd give him proficiency in longsword and shortblade, and give him Holy Avenger and Brilliant SS +5. I have heard of a bug that when you do something, you get brilliant on both weapons, but I dunno how to do it, and I don't care. This char will have no XP penalty and oodles of power.

Oh, and about the pit traps, you don't have to wade through them. Actually, they are there to help you, not to kill you. And you can get out if it activates, just have to have patience, and healing spells or a lot of hp and not move.

[ 06-29-2005, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Bozos of Bones ]

Perfectly said on why the ranger1/paladin2/rogue1/mage works. Stole the words right out of my mouth ;)

About the pit traps, do you mean they stop after a while? I never spent a lot of time in them, so I wouldn't know if they eventually ended.

I found out that they stop after a while when i sent the heartless dead through the active trap. They were inside, getting steady damage, then the trap stopped, unlocked and they were off. And I just love the heartless dead, you can make them follow you and stuff and that's just a good addition.

Cool, I didn't know that. I guess I could have gotten by with my solo sorcerer without importing a theif.

Seems you cant decide on one opinion:))). If its so(that you dont need them at all) i will go with a drow fighter4/mageX. Will go for hammers but have no idea about stats. What would you propose?

drow starts as fighter 2levels
str ??
dex ??
con 16
int 18
wis ??
cha -totally down

dex based or strength? If dex then weapon finesse and dual wield(take abuse of fighter feats), but cant go with hammers or strength base?
Your opinions?

You should definitely go for a dex based character like that. Since you can't be wearing heavy armor and casting, you will want 20 DEX (and 20 INT as well). In light of the revelation that the pit traps are avoidable, you still may want some roguery to take advantage of some good pickpocketing opportunities. If not, then a fighter4/mage is a solid class.

Stats:
STR 12
DEX 20
CON 16
INT 20
WIS 7
CON 5

Since you are DEX based, forget about hammers (there are good ones, but leave them for the warriors). I don't know what your friend is using, but you should dual wield either shortswords or daggers, or one of each.

Also, personally speaking, if you want to add on warrior levels I have found adding 2 paladin and 1 ranger to be vastly superior to 4 fighter.

Observe the pros and cons: (!=pro, @=con)
ranger1/paladin2
! Free dual wielding
! Immunity to fear
! Will obtain +1 STR and WIS over the course of the game, and again in HoF
! Can wield the holy avenger
@ less fighting capability than the fighter
@ With the above stats, you wont enjoy the other bonuses of these classes

fighter4
! weapon specialization
! maximized attacks
! more BAB and saves than the above classes
! more feats
@ must waste two feats on dual wielding
@ Takes 4 levels instead of 3, crimping your spells
@ No stat bonus

This is just my preference, the fighter4 build is still formidable (and I use it frequently).

///Observe the pros and cons: (!=pro, @=con)
ranger1/paladin2
! Free dual wielding
! Immunity to fear
! Will obtain +1 STR and WIS over the course of the game, and again in HoF
! Can wield the holy avenger
@ less fighting capability than the fighter
@ With the above stats, you wont enjoy the other bonuses of these classes

fighter4
! weapon specialization
! maximized attacks
! more BAB and saves than the above classes
! more feats
@ must waste two feats on dual wielding
@ Takes 4 levels instead of 3, crimping your spells
@ No stat bonus
////////////


I think ill take the fighter option, my friend goes as pal3/sorX character so hell cover me and 2char will gain xps fast. Immunity against fear can be granted by an item that wears one of those goblin commanders..