I have two parties up to the 8th Chamber in the Black Raven Monastry.
In one party the Half-Orc Fighter11/Barbarian1 was able to complete the Immolation Chamber on the second attempt but the Half-Orc Barbarian9/Fighter4 in the other party has been unable to come anywhere near finishing off the second monk after more than ten attempts. In the end my evil second party killed off all the monks in the Monastry to obtain the key.

The thing is these two fighters appear very similar, both have STR =21 and Improved Criticals (although the F11/B1 has DEX16 and AXE*** where as the B9/F4 has DEX14 and Hammer***) yet they seem to have vastly different capabilities against the brass monks.

Is the major difference due to AXE vs HAMMER damage ?

[ 03-04-2003, 05:59 AM: Message edited by: Malstein ]

I thought you have to fight them with your fist?

Kakero - No, you can use any weapon type available - the Monks didn't put a little cache of non-magical weapons in all those Chambers for nothing. ;)

Malstein - No, the Brass Monks, like all the other Monk-types in the other Chambers, have no resistance at all to physical (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning or missile) damage. So attacking them with a Battle Axe (slashing damage) would have the exact same effects as attacking with a Warhammer (bludgeoning damage). Beats me why you'd get such different results with characters as similar as those, apart from the luck-factor... :confused:

Have you ever thought it might be due to different weapon proficiencies?

err..didn't the monk guy say you have to strip yourself of all belongings when fighting in the chamber? I would assume he mean your equip weapon as well?

There is a cache in the wall inside each Chamber containing a few nonmagical weapons: two longswords, two shortswords, two battle axes, two warhammers, two spears and some darts or something. These can be grabbed and equipped after you have entered the Chamber, so that non-Monk characters can actually kill the opponents instead of just knocking them out.

No. As I said, a character with Weapon Specialisation: Axe wielding a battle axe, and a character with Weapon Specialisation: Hammer wielding a warhammer would do pretty much the same damage over any given time to a Brass Monk, provided that they have the same BAB, which they do in this case. Only difference is the damage type (slashing or bludgeoning), but that doesn't affect the hight of the damage done because the Brass Monks do not have any Physical Damage Resistance whatsoever.

It's also not a case of hit points, as a Bbn 9/Ftr 4 would have more of those than a Ftr 11/Bbn 1. Or does the latter have a higher CON?

Maybe it's feats like Power Attack or Expertise? Have you got any of those going on?

Do you have a monk in the party you are struggling with?

My monk tore right through all of the chambers pretty quick with just an iron fist. (Except for the lightning monks. It took me 10 tries till i figured out i was just supposed to kill them. I thought it was some sort of pattern in the floor...)

My party always has a monk and my monk always sweep aside the challenges in the chambers. ;)

i sent my druid through.... dire bear kicks anus [img]smile.gif[/img]

No. As I said, a character with Weapon Specialisation: Axe wielding a battle axe, and a character with Weapon Specialisation: Hammer wielding a warhammer would do pretty much the same damage over any given time to a Brass Monk, provided that they have the same BAB, which they do in this case. Only difference is the damage type (slashing or bludgeoning), but that doesn't affect the hight of the damage done because the Brass Monks do not have any Physical Damage Resistance whatsoever.

It's also not a case of hit points, as a Bbn 9/Ftr 4 would have more of those than a Ftr 11/Bbn 1. Or does the latter have a higher CON?

Maybe it's feats like Power Attack or Expertise? Have you got any of those going on?</font>[/QUOTE]No the B9/F4 has a higher CON 14 vs 12. Although the F11/B1 does have PowerAttack and Cleave* I had not activated them.

I think it was the BlackIsle gods punishing me for having an all evil party and dumping the monk at the Ice Temple.

heh, I just kicked all their butts after many attempts in the 8th room. But yes, maybe it's one of the feats and also a better chance of evading the flame attacks in that room.

I used a cleric.

1. Cast "Summon Fire Elemental"
2. Cast "Protection from Evil"
3. Cast "Protection from Fire"
4. Avoid fire blast while Fire elemental whups the monks.

I found the 8th Chamber (Immolation) - absolutely hellish !!! I must have attempted it at least 40 times.

My Level 12 party contains neither a Druid nor a Monk. Its member have virtually no Resistance to Fire.

Both my Half-Orc Barbarian and Human Paladin got creamed before they even started - They never managed to kill either Brass Golem.

I then started with my Cleric (STR 17). He had Protection from Fire, Bulls Strength and Prayer cast on him - but I soon used up his Heal*2 and Cure Criticals. After 10 attempts, I managed to kill just one Golem.

Finally in desparation I cheated!!! I temporarily set the Resistances to 99 for this fight only - (they are now changed back).

Even without taking Fire and Bludgeoning Damage, it still took an incredible number of swipes before I hacked the buggers to pieces.

Just how strong are they ??? Is there a genuine way that a Barbarian/Paladin/Ranger/Cleric/Thief/Wizard party can complete this realistically?

I simply used my thiefling Fighter4/Thief8 the first time around. I got away with about 2 health left, and a firepillar about to finish me up.

Second time around I did it with my barbarian. So it's quite possible to do it with a "regular" party.

I had to send in my bard and use the bug where you stack songs on top of each other. I only used "War chant of Sith" and "Ballad of three heroes".

Same here, and the reason I chose my monk is that you couldn't bring any weapons in and I didn't know what waited for me. Now knowing about the equipment in the wall I would still take my monk.

[ 03-19-2003, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

Thanks guys for the info about druids / monks / fighter-thieves.

I am kicking myself for not including any of the above.

Unfortunately I am stuck with a Level 12 party of
Barbarian/Paladin/Ranger/Cleric/Thief/Wizard.

Is there a genuine way that they can complete the 8th chamber?

Fire resistance/protection is obviously your best tool int his fight. Even the 5 point of fire resistance can make a huge diference.

The second best thing are healing abilities or summon, so a cleric would be a good choice for this fight. Start by casting protection from fire, and then summon some stuff.

I completed the room with my cleric. A first summoned this lvl6 protection spell and after that two undead who alone killed one monk and damaged the other hard. I think cleric is the best character to complete this room.

I did similar with a mage. But cleric did really well in other chambers for me.