I'm trying to make a powergaming group to take through the series. Here is my party so far, please recommend me some weapon proficiencies:

human paladin
dwarf ftr/clr
dwarf fighter
human druid
human bard
gnome illusionist/thf

Most weapons are pretty good, so you just want a distribution.

And realistically ALL of your characters except the fighter will have plenty of PPs to allocate as you go along to ensure that you're using the weapons you want. (only the fighter can stack past two) So I think the fighter is the only one that you have to design well from the start.

Presumably the paladin is your primary tank, so I think you want a good missile weapon for the fighter. Bows are the best. So start with two in bows. Then you want to work out which weapon you're going to take to GM level. I would think that you'll be putting axes and long swords on the paladin (to use an excellent throwing axe with your shield, and to take advantage of the paladin only sword.) So the fighter shouldn't get either of those. I'd be inclined to go with great swords (there are lots of very good 2 handed swords, and plenty of bastard swords for when you want to use a shield). But almost anything that doesn't conflict with your other characters is fine - there are excellent halberds around for instance.

As an aside, there are also huge advantages to having a halfling or gnome who is at least part fighter or cleric. That's the only reason I don't like the T/Ill multi here.

[ 09-15-2005, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: ister ]

Keep in mind that most of the weapons in game are random... still:

Paladin: long sword. Even if not super common as random weapons, there is an excellent non-random, paladin-only long sword.

Dwarf Fighter: axe. Quite a few random good axes there. there is a good random fairly common axe in the early stages of the game and if you find it you'll keep it for a long time.

Dwarf fighter/cleric: MORNING-STARS!!! I used to find a lot of random those in my games, with pretty good extra effects like AC bonus, extra cleric spells and electrical damage (or combinations of some ;) ).

Druid: slings. If you dont plan to combine with fighter (DC or multi) then forget about going mellee. and slings are very good ranged weapons in the game.

Bard: doesn't matter. He won't be using any weapons :D .

Morning Star is the same proficiency as Maces no?

Anyway that is definitely the best cleric melee proficiency. Flails are good as a secondary weapon, because you do find some good ones, but maces have them beat hands down.

Yes. That is same proficiency.

What I would do:

human paladin 2 x axes, 2 x hammers (will add long swords by lvl 6)
dwarf ftr/clr 2 x maces, 2 x missile
dwarf fighter 2 x great sword, 2 x bow (G Sword to 5 then bow to 3)
human druid 1 x long sword (for flame blade) 1 x missile
human bard 1 x crossbow, 1 x short sword
gnome illusionist/thf 1 x bow, 1 x dagger

Pure Druids cant use longswords.

Scimitar uses the longsword proficiency. And it's as good as any other druid melee weapon (spears and daggers). Better than some (clubs and staves). And you need that proficiency to use flame blade effectively (against undead). Obviously you don't want your druid doing that too often, but it's nice to be able to.

And multi- and dual- class F/D's are limited to exactly the same weapons as single class druids.

[ 09-15-2005, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: ister ]

oooops youre right of course on both points... forgot scimitar and long sword are same proficiency.

And btw using the flame blade might be quite a good idea in the few battles you decide to go mellee. there are really only very few good druid mellee weapons. you wont find many good spears, staffs and scimitars. And magical clubs are as common as a glabrezu paladin. you might consider spending the next druid pp on a dagger.

[ 09-15-2005, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: ZFR ]

There are some good scimitars and clubs but unfortunately they don't turn up till the expansion (or the expansion of the expansion). There are some good spears that do turn up and not as random drops. They offer good a range of "plus" bonsuses if nothing else.

As for flails, there are some excellent flails in this game. More than any other I've seen. In fact, one of my favourite cleric weapons is found in TotLM and is only really exceeded by that flail in BG2/ToB, in a flail-by-flail comparison, as far as I'm concerned. (In fact, it's effect is only exceeded by one particular two-handed sword whose location does escape me.)

Wow, thanks a lot everyboody! Keep it coming!


BTW, I think I'll have a hard time keeping my fighter away from hammers, axes and crossbows. Hopefully there are some good versions of those (although I can see him going for greatswords).

Don't worry kruncyfrogg, IWD is not like vanilla BG/BG2. There are pleny of good weapons for each and every category really. You may have to wait for one or two, and some are random drops, but for the most part, all tastes are catered to.

I've always regarded BG/BG2 as IWD's poorer cousin in this aspect, which really makes a change as most gamers consider the reverse to be true in general.

Yeah there are good weapons in all categories. Especially as you have only one character who will be going to 5 stars you can adapt to what you find very easily.

I'd still stay clear of clubs though [img]smile.gif[/img]

edit: and re-reading your post KF, I would say that axes and hammers are a perfectly good choice for your fighter. The only reason not to give him axes is if your giving them to someone else. However, for me, the paladin makes the superior tank, and the axe is the best tank weapon (simply because you can throw them and wear a shield). If you give the fighter axes be sure to give the paladin bows.

And you're really better off stacking points on your fighter rather than splitting them between 3 proficiencies like crossbows, hammers and axes.

[ 09-16-2005, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: ister ]

All of which is good advice Ister.

There should be plenty of weapons to go around, if you want to double up for characters, but consider the timing of the proficiency allocation. Paladins can only get two stars per type, so you can add weapons later and receive the full benefit before the end of the game.

With fighters you often have to plan GM in a weapon. Particularly if you're going to dual-class them as weapon proficiencies work properly in IWD.

Well, since you say there is a throwing axe, I will eventually give the axe proficiency to my paladin, as switching between a shield and longbow is a real pain in the rear.

I've decided to go with a two handed axe for my dwarf, since the whole shield and switch thing stinks for his crossbow as well.

In the first city I got to after completing the prologue, I found a pretty cool axe and crossbow for sale. If I don't find anything better, I'll probably buy those for him.

I'll have to settle with my Bard being the longbowman (he has a 16 strength, IIRC), and just firing arrows when he's not singing. I usually have him sing inbetween combats, and start firing arrows when combat begins. My party still gets the song bonuses for the first round.

BTW, what makes you say that the paladin is a better tank than the dwarf, Ister? When I get that axe for sale, it will raise his constitution to 20, and he will be regenerating!

I'd use the paladin as the tank because of the spells - once he picks up a few more levels he can self-buff. Plus the immunity to fear saves a lot of grief. Even at lower levels the fact that he can lay on hands on himself is a bonus.

At lower levels there is a pretty good case for making a dwarf fighter the tank (the case you're making [img]smile.gif[/img] ). Saves are a little better, and until he gets up in levels the paladin doesn't have all the advantages. And now that you've made it to Kuldahar you can see why a gnome fighter might make a better tank than a dwarf (check the items at the smithy). And yes the axe you mention is a great weapon. Quite pricey, but very good.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Neither can MC or DC Druids. Both the longsword and the scimitar use the largesword proficiency. Druids of any kind can place a point (or more if MC/DC) in Largesword, but are restricted to scimitar only.

I noticed that some of the suggestions are giving short shift to ranged weapons, which are an excellent option in IWD: almost mandatory I would say.

"Balance" is the key word that i saw mentioned. You want your team to cover slashing, piercing and crushing damage. You want each team member to also have variety; but (my philosopy) don't sacrifice an individual's power to get individual variety: Let the team provide the variety. When an individual hits, you want the enemy to hurt.

If you only have one Fighter, let him go deep in a weapon. This team has plenty of characters that can be half-___ed with several weapons.

And I agree with the comment that what your Bard carries as a weapon is immaterial (at least it is after she hits CLVL 11 and gets War Chant).

Crushing weapons are a staple in this game. Maces are the king of crushing weapons; and there are lots of excellent ones to be had. I bought The Giving Star early in the IWD game, and still find use for it in TotLM.

Don't let your Paladin leave IWD for HoW until he has found THE longsword. If he equips one and you are wondering if it is the one, keep looking: When you find it there will be no doubt.

I stole ister's fine suggestion list as a starting point:

1.) human paladin 2 largesword, 2 bow (will add 2 maces by lvl 6, 2 hammers by lvl 12)

2.) dwarf ftr/clr 2 maces, 2 missile (will add 2 hammers by lvl 6)

3.) dwarf fighter 2 great sword, 2 bow (G.sword & bow to 3, then G.sword to 5)
-OR-
3.) dwarf fighter 2 axe, 2 mace (Axe & Mace to 3, then Axe to 5) Axe includes thrown axe, which is your ranged weapon.

4.) human druid 1 largesword (for for scimitar & flame blade), 1 missile

5.) human bard 1 crossbow, 1 largesword

6.) gnome illusionist/thief 1 bow, 1 dagger

If you are taking this party into HoW/TotLM, then I would suggest modifying characters 2 and 3 as follows...

2.) DC Fighter[12-13]/Neutral_Cleric: 2 maces; 2 missile (Maces & Missile to 3, then Maces to 5. Add Hammers and Flails after DC)

3.) DC Good_Cleric[12-13]/Fighter: 1 Flail, 1 hammer (Mace & missile to 3, then Mace to 5 after DC)
-OR-
3.) DC Good_Cleric[12-13]/Ranger: 1 hammer, 1 club (Mace & Missile to 2, then Flail to 2, after DC).

Hope you found this interesting.

</font>--------------------<font color = mediumspringgreen>
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
</font>

[ 09-17-2005, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

Wow, thanks a lot!

Ya know, I can't help but think that I would have been better off dual classing that druid from fighter.

If I restart, what's a good level to dual class at?

I have up to TotLM, so I think I should be able to get plenty of experience, but I'd also like my spells and druid powers at a reasonable time.

I'll try to roll up a human fighter to dual later on into druid. I know it would be a nightmare to get the optimal fighter stats and then dual into a druid, so I won't obsess over them. I'll just make sure to have a 15 str and 17 in wis and chr.

Good levels to dual F-D

Level 2: to do it as soon as possible, and enjoy druid spells all the way through

Level 3: to get 3 PPs in missile weapons, which will be the primary for this weakish character

Level 7: to get the extra 1/2 attack - very valuable as you can use it when shapeshifted

Level 9: to get to GM in one melee weapon.

Level 13: to get another 1/2 attack

I think it's a matter of playing style which is better. How do you want to use the character? If the character will primarily be a spell caster 2 or 3 are ideal. If you really want a character to mix it up you need to get to at least 9. If you're on the fence maybe 7 is good. The cost of dualling later is simply that you spend more of the game without a druid.

[ 09-19-2005, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: ister ]

Lvl 9 is probably the "best" level for dualing in the sense that it almost maximizes the fighter benefits (HP, proficiencies) while only taking 250 000 XP.

Note that getting to 10th lvl druid only requires 125 000 XP - as dual classing goes by level, 375 000 XP gives you a lvl 9/10 fighter druid and the same amount of XP gives a lvl 12 druid. Ask yourself if 9 fighter levels are worth 2 druid levels...

I have few quibbles with the proficiencies suggested above for your characters. However, I would be reluctant to give 2 PP in Axe (slashing damage) to a paladin with the paladin's obvious need for 2 PP in longsword (likewise slashing damage). Why take Axe just to avoid switching a shield when the paladin can take slings? The ill/thief, fighter, and bard can all use bows, although one should use crossbows.

Thrown axes are piercing though.

The paladin doesn't need the 2 in large swords until he's level 12 or so on even on core difficulty. So there is plenty of time to get him 2 stars in that proficiency later on. What the paladin needs is a missile weapon of some sort, and a crushing weapon of some sort. (Both of these are needed before you can double up in a third weapon at level 6.) The problem with choosing slings is the F/C and F-D will both be taking missile weapons. You'll be waiting a long time for a third magical sling, and in the long run I don't know of three really good slings, and magical sling ammunition isn't so overabundent to supply 2 slings very easily.

Now the druid could use darts, and until level 7 I think that choice is more powerful. (i.e., P with sling, F/C with sling, F-D with darts is better than P with axes, F/C with sling, F-D with sling). But after level 7 the extra attacks count against the slings, and the second choice is clearly superior.

I think you're really arguing your first point - have the paladin take a crossbow or bow and switch out with a shield when the bad guys close after one or two shots. This is clearly stronger than even the throwing axe and 2 stars. However, I find it cheesy and from an role playing point of view it's a little weird. Plus it's a lot of trouble to keep switching.

Of course the true powergamer should dismiss these concerns as being irrelevent. [img]smile.gif[/img]

edit: Realized I didn't make any suggestion. I would not start the paladin with large swords and axes. I'd start him with axes and hammers (or other unused crushing weapon) and add large swords at levels 3 and 6.

[ 09-21-2005, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: ister ]

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Depends on what you want to do with him. The level by level list of sweet spots is nice; but if you are doing all of IWD/HoW/TotLM, then your optimum DC points for the F/D collapse (IMHO) to essentially 2 choices:

1.) Using the Druid primarily as a spellcaster --> DC at F(9)

This first choice gets you very high HP. In fact, My DC F(9)/D is easily the highest HP character in the group. It also lets your Druid side develop very well: I am past Druid(17). This character suffers a bit on the front line, though. Could be because I maximized his STR instead of his DEX (big mistake). Because I was looking for this character to hold his own on the front line, I am a bit disappointed in the build. I have thoroughly enjoyed the extremely useful Druid spells, though; and, if you are looking for a tough spellcaster (not a tank), this character rocks. But I repeat, if you want to use the shapeshifting occasionally, max DEX to give this character some staying power on the front line.

2.) Using the Druid primarily as a melee artist --> DC at F(12) or F(13)

The second choice is for a character useful on the front line, with spell use a secondary concern. The extra 4 THAC0 and extra 1/2 ApR that he gets (over an F{9}/D ) while shapeshifted should be a real boon. This is what I am building for my newest Power Party. This guy is a late bloomer: I would suggest maybe DC at F(12) if you want a lot of play out of the finished character, are on Normal difficulty, and and are not doing TotLM. Keep rolling until you can max DEX, CON and STR (in that order of importance); bu STR can be less than max if you have the right STR spells and potions.

Hope you found this interesting.

</font>--------------------<font color = mediumspringgreen>
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
</font>

[ 09-23-2005, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

The paladin doesn't need the 2 in large swords until he's level 12 or so on even on core difficulty. So there is plenty of time to get him 2 stars in that proficiency later on. What the paladin needs is a missile weapon of some sort, and a crushing weapon of some sort. (Both of these are needed before you can double up in a third weapon at level 6.) The problem with choosing slings is the F/C and F-D will both be taking missile weapons. You'll be waiting a long time for a third magical sling, and in the long run I don't know of three really good slings, and magical sling ammunition isn't so overabundent to supply 2 slings very easily.

Now the druid could use darts, and until level 7 I think that choice is more powerful. (i.e., P with sling, F/C with sling, F-D with darts is better than P with axes, F/C with sling, F-D with sling). But after level 7 the extra attacks count against the slings, and the second choice is clearly superior.

I think you're really arguing your first point - have the paladin take a crossbow or bow and switch out with a shield when the bad guys close after one or two shots. This is clearly stronger than even the throwing axe and 2 stars. However, I find it cheesy and from an role playing point of view it's a little weird. Plus it's a lot of trouble to keep switching.

Of course the true powergamer should dismiss these concerns as being irrelevent. [img]smile.gif[/img]

edit: Realized I didn't make any suggestion. I would not start the paladin with large swords and axes. I'd start him with axes and hammers (or other unused crushing weapon) and add large swords at levels 3 and 6. </font>[/QUOTE]Good point re: too many slings and not enough bows. However, there are enough good slings to go around, and it gets to the point where a cleric or druid should not be using many missiles anyway. One thing I've done with some success is use a 2nd lvl cleric slot or three on the magical hammer spell (Spiritual Hammer?). Druids should be firing away with sunscorch and alicorn lance. Btw, the shopkeeper in the severed hand sells unlimited +2 slingstones.

I often start a paladin with a ranged weapon and crushing weapon, add a 2-hander (greatsword), then go to longsword. It's hardly worth adding a shield before Dragon's Eye anyway.

Well, my party composition has changed a tiny bit. I've got this so far:


Human Paladin
Half-Elf Bard
Gnome Ftr/Illusionist
Half-Elf Ftr/Druid
Dwarf Ftr/Cleric
Elf Ftr/Thief