I read past posts about level 2 of Dragons Eye. It was said that the cold wights were easy XP. That they had low hp and were easy kills. Something must have changed big time because these guys are kicking my butt. I lead them back to the doorway so it is a fast escape when I need it. I use hand melee weapons as they seem to be the most effective. But still it takes many tries to finally get them. Usually my mages kill them with fire spells.

Am I missing something here? Is there an easier way to kill these than what I am doing?

Cold Wights are easy xp, IF you're well protected and a good fighter. Try equip a tank with a good weapon and armour, and let him take them on. Unprotected characters can die fairly quickly.

I have a level 5 fighter/cleric for the lead man. He has plate + 1 and a weapon + 1. The other 2 fighters edited part LET ME Clarify 1 is a Pure Fighter Dwarf Tank, The Other is a Pure RANGER edited part - rangers are similarily equipped but have weapons + 2 all this was found loot. The sheer amount of wights overwhelm my party. Could this be because I have HOW installed that they are more difficult to kill?
Once after I had the initial talk with the big skeleton I managed to see my whole party fall except my lead fighter. He was taking almost no damage standing right at the door. he killed them all with only a little damage. Still this was one tough fight. Difficulty leve is set at normal.
So I ask has this changed? I don't think these are easy kills at all. Compared to lizardmen they are quite hard to kill.


[ 10-13-2004, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: Calagari ]

That's level 3 of Dragon's Eye, right? The entrance is, IMO, the toughest fight on the level, because it's harder to prepare the battlefield. HoW makes it slightly more difficult because of the Call to Arms feature, which draws all the enemies within a certain radius once ONE enemy sights you. That can lead to overwhelming odds, but it's not unbeatable.

You have to shorten the odds - cast hindering spells like Entangle or Web in front of your party, far enough away that you don't get caught in them. Have party-affecting spells like Protection From Evil 10' cast on your party before you enter the level. Protection from Fire is good to have on your lead character(s) so that your mage can Fireball away. Try doubling or tripling up attacks on one Wight - it's better to have one dead enemy and one at full strength than to have two at seriously wounded. Backline mages or clerics should have a good selection of distance spells - Magic Missile and Magical Stone are very good at finishing off injured wights. This is also a good area for Agannazar's Scorcher. A fire-protected lead character can move around with impunity and cause many wights to get caught in the scorcher.

If you have a decent druid, it will crush the wights. Moonblade does exceptional damage, but it's not even the best druid spell for the level. The spell Wall of Moonlight does great damage to evilly-aligned undead - once you're past the entrance, use one fire-protected character to scout ahead and draw a bunch of wights. Have a Wall of Moonlight cast between your party and the lead, then walk the (non-evil) lead character back across the Wall (the wights will follow across and get really hurt) and hammer the wights with a Fireball. It's a rare cold wight that can survive a Fireball + Wall of Moonlight combination.

If you decide to rest, find a protected alcove. Put all of your characters except one in the alcove and leave your best fighter out in front by a few steps. It helps to have Protection from Fire active. Then when the wights come at you, they'll likely go after your toughest, most protected character, and you can Fireball them with minimal risk. That should bring them down to manageable numbers.

This is a good area to rest - lots of monsters to test out your spell tactics.

Edit: If you are having a hard time using these tactics, you can also cast Haste on your party before you enter the level. It will eventually fatigue you, but it will help you take out the wights more quickly. You can retreat to the lower level and Mother Egenia to rest. Also don't be afraid of retreating mid-fight if one of your characters is close to dying.

[ 10-11-2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Calagari,</font>

I have a level 5 fighter/cleric for the lead man. He has plate + 1 and a weapon + 1. The other 2 fighters - rangers are similarily equipped but have weapons + 2 all this was found loot. The sheer amount of wights overwhelm my party. Could this be because I have HOW installed that they are more difficult to kill?

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Here, I think, is part of your problem. (And it is not HoW.) Now don't take this personally; but IMHO your front line needs help. Did I read that correctly, that you have two rangers and a Fighter/Cleric? And you have no Fighter (No, I mean a REAL Fighter, who has CON=18 and is getting 14 HP per level, and who can stack Proficiency Points more than 2 high in a weapon.); nor a Pally (although a Pally, good later in the game, is not much more help than a Ranger at this stage).

(If you DO have a dual class or straight class Fighter, with Proficiency Points stacked at least 3 high in a close-in weapon, then please ignore all the ranting I am about to do.)

I have a suggestion or two on how to beat this fight with your party as is; but first let me suggest that if you have 2 Rangers ditch at least one of them for a DUAL CLASS (DC) Fighter/Cleric, a DUAL CLASS Fighter/Mage, a DUAL CLASS Fighter/Druid, or, at the very least, a straight class Fighter. Notice that I did not say Multiclass: Multiclass Fighters cannot stack PP more than 2 high. You are taking this party into HoW? Then I highly recommend a DC Fighter[X]/Cleric, where X is 9, 12 or even 13; DEX=STR=CON=WIS=18; and you stack ALL you PP into EXACTLY ONE ranged and ONE close-in weapon. Also, your Fighter/Cleric and other warriors have DEX=18, right? Did you know that DEX has a tremendous effect on Armor Class (AC)? Yup. IIRC, a DEX of 18 gives you an AC bonus of 4.

This is a tough fight at the beginning, as was said, because of the sheer number of Wights. In my treks, I've had to reload this battle once or maybe twice, myself. (Now don't say, "Duh!" at the following.) The key to victory for your lightly clad party is quick kills. The longer you let Wights hang around, the more damage they dish out. Your problem is that even one excellent Fighter would be hacking away for an hour getting rid of This many Wights; and (if I read you correctly) instead of two or three rock-hard warriors, you've got NOBODY with the deep Fighter skills needed to dispatch this crowd quickly. So, since you don't have the Fighter power to do it all, I hope you brought a Mage with access to Evocation spells

There is no one "magic bullet" that will get you through (that I know of). Here are a few tips that, used together, should help your party make a better showing:

Tactic 1: Prior preparation. (I assume you have a Mage with access to Evocation (a.k.a. Invocation) spells and a Thief. Who is your sixth party member?) Have your Mage and Cleric memorize the spells that you will need specifically for this fight. Starting with your most well protected Fighter, cast Bless on all three of your front line, in very quick succession. Then quickly step through the door to meet the wights. If you have Prayer, cast it just after going through the door (or, better, just after summons are called).

**IF** you have the cash and don't have another definite goal for it --> If any of your warriors have 2PP or better skill in a +3 or better weapon that is available for sale, maybe now would be a good time to buy it. (Lonesome Road and The Giving Star are two buys that were a perfect fit for my party, and I found to have lasting value. Also, there is another... Oops! almost spoiled for ya.) If you have not otherwise been feeling pinched for firepower, save your money: I think you can get through this.

Tactic 2: Use the pause button A LOT! Think about what you are going to do. Think about what the enemy will likely do. Think about how to screw the enemy's future plans. Your current plan should always extend at least two rounds ahead of the action.

Tactic 3: Form a protective line. Put your best AC characters on the front line. Stay close to the door, and try to arrange your front line so that Wights cannot do an end run around it to get at your weaker characters.

Tactic 4: Summons. Bolster your protective line with summons. No, they won't do much in the way of killing Wights; but every Wight blow to a summoned monster is a blow not aimed at YOU!

Tactic 5: Concentrate fire. Have all your front line concentrate on the monster in front of the middle guy. Have your weaker members in back join in on the same enemy with ranged weapons, if you have any that are effective. If you correctly followed Tactic 3, and your summons are placed correctly, the front line of your core party should all be able to do this without moving position.

Tactic 6: Fireball. Well, I said no one magic bullet; but this comes close. With your protective line or summons bunching up most of the Wights, throw a Fireball at just the right place to toast ALL of them without toasting any of your party. Oh, yes, it is quite doable. It might take a few reloads and reshaping your front line, if you haven't been practicing this technique; but the sheer joy of getting 12 Wight screams out of one spell is worth it. When you get it right, throw another Fireball and see what 12 Wight deaths from one spell feels like!

Tactic 7: Skull Trap. If you have a second Mage with Skull Trap, set her to work sprinkling these about such that the blast radius just barely misses your front line. Like Fireball, this takes practice. Unlike Fireball, this MUST be done quickly, before all wights have arrived at your front line.

Tactic 8: Aganazzar's Scorcher. Oh, how Cold wights hate fire! One of my favorite tactics is to have my front line perfectly lined up with all the enemy lined up toe-to-toe against them. Then I dodge my Mage out around the end of my front line, so that she is perfectly in line with the enemy; then cut loose on the farthest enemy with A. Scorcher and listen to the entire front line of the enemy sizzle and scream! Sniff, sniff, Mmmm... Please pass the A-1 sauce.

Tactic 9: Haste/Slow. As was mentioned by Aerich, Haste could be a real help. I hate the after effects; but you can lick your wounds at leisure after this tough battle. Slow might be just as helpful, without the drawback.

Tactic 10: Area effect spells like Web and Entangle. Additional advice to that already given: Definitely throw them to cover your weakest side and also make sure that as much of the sticky area as possible falls within the radius of your perfectly placed Fireballs.

Tactic 11: Flee (if needed). Again, good advice from Aerich. If you have to do this too much, then go back a level or two and sleep in monster-infested areas until you level.

How did I do it? A tough front line of Fighter (later to DC to Druid), Fighter (later to DC to Thief) and Ranger (later to DC to Cleric) kept the Wights from getting to my Cleric (later to DC to Fighter), MC Mage/Thief and Bard. No summons nor defensive spells were needed. My Mage Fireballed the entire area at least twice with perfectly placed spells to tenderize the enemy front line. Not all Wights got toasted twice. My Bard joined the magic action with, IIRC, a Skull Trap thrown in between the Mage's Fireballs. Then the Mage busied herself with Magic Missile, the Bard threw a fire potion, and the Cleric threw Prayer before joined the other three heavies in pulverizing first one then another of the smoking leftovers. My Fighters were at least 3PP in close-in weapon, and I'm sure my Ranger was maxed out at 2PP. No one in my party lost more than 1/4 of their HP. </font>

I don't think these are easy kills at all. Compared to lizardmen they are quite hard to kill.

<font color = mediumspringgreen> We aren't talking about the first battle. That, most would admit, is a bit tough: maybe one of the top dozen toughest battles relative to expected party stregth in IWD. And, yes Cold Wights are tougher than Lizardmen. But the expo is a lot more, and picking these guys off 2 or 4 at a time is a piece of cake for any party that can survive the initial battle. I think most would say that the expo gained for the effort is very good.

If it is not easy for your party to pulverize a party of 4 Wights (that you've surprised, because your Thief scouted ahead), expending only one low level spell (e.g., Web, Entangle, or low level summon) and negligible loss of HP, then I suggest you review your tactics and party make-up now; because it will get MUCH tougher before you finish Dragon's Eye. (It might be that you have played so efficiently that your party is not experienced enough; so go back and sleep at the end of DE1 until you level.)

I hope this helped.

</font>-------------------- <font color = mediumspringgreen>
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
</font>

Good tactical tips from NobleNick. Between us I think we've covered everything in these three posts.

The real trick, once your party has had it's butt whipped, is to sit back and think what went wrong and how to counter it. Yes, sometimes you need a bit of luck, but good tactics win out. NobleNick's most valuable piece of advice, IMO, is to use the pause button. You can also set the game to autopause whenever a character has finished a round.

If you have to (I often do this), rest on the level below so that you have exactly the spells you want for the fight. You may also want to switch up the party formation. If you change it to the triangle so that your best fighter-type is in front, that should help keep the wights away from your most vulnerable characters. You can also move that character forward if he has Free Action, so that the charging wights focus on that character alone. A couple Web spells dropped in there will help immeasurably.

I think you'll find that Web + the rings of Free Action are one of the most effective techniques you can use. Combine it with the Protection from Fire + fire spells, and it should get you through 90% of the battles.

I do have to disagree with NobleNick's assessment of your party. IMO, your front line is fine if it gets adequate support from the back and takes advantage of its strengths. Although your party is not absolutely the most efficient, it should do just fine. Rangers get an extra melee attack per round if using a single-handed weapon and no shield (simulating the dual-wield), and a F/C is a decent tank. I went through this area on insane with no single-class fighters and a multiclass F/C as my lead, and I did just fine (granted, I had 5 spellcasters at the time, but the point still stands).

One great tactic with a F/C is to cast Protection from Evil, Draw Upon Holy Might (DUHM), and Chant (in that order) before entering combat. Do this on the level below. You might be surprised how much this adds to the durability of your character. For extra-tough results, drink a potion of giant strength (or cast a strength spell of some kind) before casting DUHM.

One final thought? I'm not sure if you have a cleric other than your F[5]/C[5] tank, but if you do, try using Turn Undead.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Aerich, Calagari,</font>

If you have to (I often do this), rest on the level below so that you have exactly the spells you want for the fight.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Bingo. Excellent advice. </font>

You may also want to switch up the party formation. If you change it to the triangle so that your best fighter-type is in front, that should help keep the wights away from your most vulnerable characters.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Getting the enemy to concentrate on your most well protected character is an excellent move, provided that this character is very well armored. Calagari's F/C might be up to the task.

This reminds me of a nasty trick someone posted recently: *IF* your Thief can stay hid in shadows at this fight scene (I forget if there are torches there) then put your Thief on the front line and hide him in shadows on the previous level, just before going to DE3. If your Thief is still hidden when the Wights attack, he will be an invisible barricade that the Wights cannot pass through nor harm.</font>

I do have to disagree with NobleNick's assessment of your party. IMO, your front line is fine if it gets adequate support from the back and takes advantage of its strengths. Although your party is not absolutely the most efficient, it should do just fine.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>If Calagari's front line is MC F/C, Fighter and Ranger, then I agree. If his front line is F/C, Ranger, Ranger, then I am sorry, Aerich, this is not fine. Not fine now, and will get worse later. Most of HoW is going to be excruciating with this front line.</font>

Rangers get an extra melee attack per round if using a single-handed weapon and no shield (simulating the dual-wield)...

<font color = mediumspringgreen>And don't forget the racial enemy advantage. But so what? You aren't going to put these guys on the front line with no shield, are you? Ouch! They'll wilt faster than pansies transplanted to Houston in August. So, at least one has a shield and is helping shore up the front line, therefore no extra ApR. So, unless he just happens to be Fighting his racial enemy, he is going to be as effective as a poorly rolled and poorly groomed Fighter.</font>

...and a F/C is a decent tank.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Better can be had, to wit: DC Fighter[X]/Cleric (X = 6 to 13, 4 to 5 PP in blunt weapon); DC Fighter[X]/Druid (X = 9 to 13, 4 to 5 PP in Scimitar); Paladin (2 PP in LongSword); and SC Fighter (5 PP melee). However, I agree with your statement.</font>

I went through this area on insane with no single-class fighters and a multiclass F/C as my lead, and I did just fine (granted, I had 5 spellcasters at the time, but the point still stands).

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Now there you go, again, doing insane things. But with 5 spellcasters, you had quite a lot of buffing available and a whole mess of pain to dish out to the enemy in a very short space of time. That is my point: SOMEBODY has to dish out a lot of hurt to the enemy in a very short strip of time, or you die. Calagari's party doesn't have the offensive muscle in the front line to do much of the work in the time alloted. To exacerbate the situation, his front line is not exceptionally tough; so he has to dish out the required amount of pain in even less time than most other parties would have. Therefore, he needs to play very smart with what he has got to give the rest of his party time to pick up the slack. In your party, you probably could have put Thieves and Clerics on the front line; because your army of spellcasters toasted the enemy before most could close to melee. </font>
One great tactic with a F/C is to cast Protection from Evil, Draw Upon Holy Might (DUHM), and Chant (in that order) before entering combat.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>I have always avoided Chant because it required your Cleric to take no other action for the duration of the spell. Hmmm... I guess this is equivalent to the Bard's restriction of do nothing else when Singing War Chant. This might work...</font>

For extra-tough results, drink a potion of giant strength (or cast a strength spell of some kind) before casting DUHM.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>I don't understand how extra strength (DUHM and STR potions) helps when you F/C can take no offensive action while Chanting. I would think pumping DEX with a potion or spell of Cat's Grace would be more effective. </font>

One final thought? I'm not sure if you have a cleric other than your F[5]/C[5] tank, but if you do, try using Turn Undead.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>I thought of this, too; but don't know if Wights are undead. BTW - If Calagari has an extra Cleric in his party, then my estimation of his party's viability in the later game and HoW goes up considerably.</font>

</font>-------------------- <font color = mediumspringgreen>
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
</font>

Chant allows the cleric to do other action for the duration... he only cant cast spells and movement slowed by half but he can still fight normally... still because of these restriction I too avoided this spell and used the higher versions instead (Prayer...)

Wights are undead but cleric at this time is too low leveled to affect them.

A single-class cleric may be able to turn wights at this stage.

Chant is just another way to get +1 att/dmg for your party. The rationale behind using it this way is that a F/C tank won't be casting spells for the duration anyway. Does pretty well in melee, though, as long as you don't have to chase anything down. Might just want to use the slot for healing, though.

I still stand behind my comment that his front line is decent. The trick is to have the front line as a WEDGE, where the F/C (or a set of summoned monsters) is the focus of all attacks. The rangers can come in behind or beside the F/C and get their licks in without being as vulnerable. I agree, though, a pure or D/C fighter will be easier.

Second thing, you have to take advantage of the rangers' strengths. NobleNick mentioned having a thief invisible in the front line. Well, how about a ranger? Take off that armour and hide in shadows, but be ready to put the armour back on. If you're willing to do a bit of switching, it'll be just fine.

With two rangers, this party could specialize in ambush - both rangers with rings of free action go stealthed to scout out the enemy (or enter an area), attack, pause to put armour back on, and boot it back to the party. Drop a Web or Entangle spell near the rangers, and attack the stuck creatures with the rangers while the remainder of the party fires away with missile weapons. If too many enemies get free, run the rangers back through the Web in the other direction to maximize the chance of getting the chasing enemies caught again.

If you add a thief character and/or a druid with invisibility/sanctuary and Static Charge spells, that would give you four characters to get in the first blow from concealment. Could even Haste them for better results, subsequent fighting OR running.

IMO, there is no six-character party that cannot finish the game if they have decent stats - yes, there are combinations that would find it difficult (e.g. no priests), but it's not impossible.

Damn, so many texts for such simple solution... take mage with fireball, cast protection from fire
at tank, go with tank and when all this shit will be next to you, cast fireball. Finished.
Survilists will finish tank.

Be sure, you have your ac at least -2. (protection from evil is good spell for that).
How they can kick you butt?

Yes indeed a simple solution....If one had protection from fire which I don't. You talk like an experienced player Perhaps you should think that not all players are the same level as you. That perhaps some players need help for the first time playing this game. Having an -2 AC is a good goal if you have the gold to make each member of your party that low in armor. You would really need to know more about the party before making such suggestions. Those posters that are helping me are doing a great job. They ask questions and offers suggestions to help a new player. This could be my first time playing a RPG and am not familiar with the procerures and tactics. But you didn't consider any of that.


[ 10-14-2004, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: Calagari ]

Sorry, i didn't know this is your FIRST RPG game ever. I have used this tactic even when I've played IWD for the first time, so that's why I've been a little suprised, you haven't been able to discover such simple solution too.

But it is true, that IWD wasn't my first RPG ever, I played several RPG's before, like Diablo, some dungeons etc...
Many of them are using AD&D. This rules are a little complicated for newbie, but then, when you'll learn them, you'll better and easier understand similar rules in a new game using AD&D or similar rules.

IWD isn't easy game for non-RPG player and same it's rules. I think Baldur's gate & IWD series are games for hard-core RPG players. As a newbie, maybe you should start with simplier RPG-based game, like Diablo 2 or Sacred. Then, you will have no problem playin this.

If you like IWD so much, that you will continue playing it, you are free to ask, but please say you are newbie. Because from your first post, it seems like we all are mistaken, that cold wights are not easy XP. They are. [img]smile.gif[/img] I think, they are easiest XP in the whole Dragon's Eye. 1400 XP for every one and they are in so quantities... that simply ASK for some area-based spell. [img]smile.gif[/img]

To your problem with Armor Class:
You have not equip each member with best armor. Good armors are very expensive. Only your primary tank should have best armor (Plate Mail in Kuldahar, then Plate Mail +1) and such best AC.
Use him and attract all attention to him. If your tank will have ac -5 for example, only few of wights can hit him. Even if you have not Protection from Fire, nevermind. Cast Fireball anyway. Your tank will surely survive one fireball, but most of wights will not.

And you can use even this trick. Buy potion of Freedom (or cast Free action on your tank), and then, cast a web to all wights before. Then Fireball. Your tank can easily and without many dangers finished survalists.

And... read Topic: Unfair tricks. Here is also some information for you that can be useful. Enjoy ;)

You have 5-level Fighter/Cleric and have not Protection from Fire? Better open your eyes, and take closer look for your 2nd and 3th level cleric spells. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-14-2004, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: galdur ]

Believe me when I tell you I do not have the spell.


You have 5-level Fighter/Cleric and have not Protection from Fire? Better open your eyes, and take closer look for your 2nd and 3th level cleric spells. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]

The biggest problem with the cold wights is that they swarm and surround you making fighting difficult. Then the trolls come in and poison you. Finding a narrow space in which to fight is not always possible. I have some level 7 fighters and killing wights is very hard. It takes many hits to kill one. Meanwhile the other wights are pounding on you mercifully. Even with my mage at the rear of the group wights manage to run past them and attack the mage making casting difficult. This is a tactic I am trying to change and manage.

Experience in these games is everything. Not everyone has the savy and quickness of thought to plan the best strategy. Reloading is the best teacher. Sometimes you just want to move on and quit the frequency of reloading.

My lead fighter/cleric has -5 I think AC He does ok. But the Ranger is the one shooting fire arrows for the kill and he seems to die faster than the other fighters. I have tried to outfit him to a lower Ac but I can't get him lower than 2 right now. I also have tried to cast protective spells on him What I need is a poison preventive spell that would help greatly. I ran out of antidotes.

I just entered part 3 of Dragon's eye now. The hard fight begins.

The one trouble with spells is that you can only cast them once while you can cast each spell in that level. It would be really nice if you could repeatedly cast the same spell. I wonder if real mages ( if there were such things ) would only cast a spell one time then run like crazy to save themselves? It is kind of funny to visualize them doing that.


One does not always like to advertise how little experience they have in these games. Some boards look for newbies to make fun of. This board has been nothing but the greatest help and wealth of information.

Past posts are a great source of information. I try to read all I can when I have the chance before I post. But sometimes I just have to ask questions in my own words.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Calagari,

I don't think I understand your problem. You have more than one 2nd level spell slot and can only cast a certain 2nd level spell once? Did you know that you can change your spell mix and cast multiple instances of the same spell by going into your spell book? Assuming you don't:

On the left side are boxes containing memorized instances of spells for a given level. Dimmed spells are ones you have not yet memorized (or have memorized and cast), so are unusable until you sleep again. Undimmed ones on the left are spell instances that you have memorized and not yet cast since your last sleep (they are still usable). Any empty boxes are spell slots (instances) that you have not yet designated a spell to fill. Now, on the right side are available spells for that level. These are spells you have scribed but not necessarily memorized. Click on a spell that you would like to fill an empty slot with. If you have an empty box on the left page, it will get filled with a dimmed pic of the spell that you clicked on the right page. You have just filled a spell slot. After you sleep, this instance of the spell will be ready for use.

To open up more spell slots on the left, click on a box with an instance of a spell on the LEFT page that you can do without for a while. If the box was dimmed, the spell goes away immediately and a slot opens up (empty box); if the spell instance was undimmed (usable) you will be asked to confirm your decision to waste a good spell (do so). Now click on a desired spell on the right page, and it will fill an empty box with an instance of that spell on the left page. If you want ANOTHER instance of this SAME spell, and you have another empty box, just click on the same right page spell again. A second instance of the spell will fill another box on the left page.

Remember that the new instances of a spell are unusable until your character sleeps. Also remember that the lead member of the party (the guy in the top position of your party line up) stands guard and does not sleep, unless you are in an Inn or other protected sleeping place.

Now to get ready for this big shin dig with the Wights. I will assume that you have a specialist Mage (Illusionist is best) or otherwise have a combination of experience and equipment that gives you at least two (2) level-3 spell slots. I also assume you have acquired and scribed Fireball from a scroll. (Buy this scroll in Kuldahar or find it in your adventures. Save the game before attempting to scribe a spell into your book, so that you can retry if you fail.)

You have the spell written in your book. Good, now open your Mage's spell book to the level 3 spells page, and click on any boxes on the left page (these are called spell slots) until they are empty. Now, on the right page you will see a pic of the Fireball spell and other 3rd level spells, if you have scribed them. Click repeatedly on the right page Fireball spell until all your level 3 slots on the left page are filled with dimmed pictures of Fireball.

Repeat this same procedure for other spells or spell mixes, on other levels of your spell book, that you would like to see your Mage carry into this battle. It is not necessary to delete instances of spells on the left if you still want them. Just delete the stuff you don't want in the current mix and add the stuff you do want. For instance, in the paragraph above, it was not necessary to delete dimmed images of Fireball, just delete the non-Fireball spells and replace with Fireball.

Now go sleep. (Make sure that, if you sleep in a cave, your Mage is NOT the one standing guard. After a SUCCESSFUL sleep (monsters did not awaken your party) all your spell slots will now have usable spells. Open your Mage's spell book to 3rd level again and see that all your Fireball pics on the left side are no longer dimmed: You are ready to cast multiple Fireballs! </font>

One does not always like to advertise how little experience they have in these games. Some boards look for newbies to make fun of. This board has been nothing but the greatest help and wealth of information.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Only forums rife with immature people do that. (My mind wanders to the Halo forums hosted by Bungie.) You'll find that this forum is loaded with folks who love the community and don't hardly beat on anyone; but if provoked, they are quite adept at lambasting those who would put someone down for being new to the game. </font>

Past posts are a great source of information. I try to read all I can when I have the chance before I post. But sometimes I just have to ask questions in my own words

<font color = mediumspringgreen>You're doing better than most.

</font>--------------------<font color = mediumspringgreen>
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
</font>

[ 10-14-2004, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

posted 14 October, 2004 11:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Calagari:
The one trouble with spells is that you can only cast them once while you can cast each spell in that level. It would be really nice if you could repeatedly cast the same spell. I wonder if real mages ( if there were such things ) would only cast a spell one time then run like crazy to save themselves? It is kind of funny to visualize them doing that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ARGGGH!!! You have managed to once again make me realized I should be playing a romper room game instead of this complex game. LOL

It never occured to me to memorize more than 1 of the same spell per level. Tunnel vision is a terrible thing. I get so intense on trying to plan out what spells I will need I never think that I can memorize the same spell twice or more per spell level.

Once again Brains over well whatever it is I have wins. Thanks.


To open up more spell slots on the left, click on a box with an instance of a spell on the LEFT page that you can do without for a while. If the box was dimmed, the spell goes away immediately and a slot opens up (empty box); if the spell instance was undimmed (usable) you will be asked to confirm your decision to waste a good spell (do so). Now click on a desired spell on the right page, and it will fill an empty box with an instance of that spell on the left page. If you want ANOTHER instance of this SAME spell, and you have another empty box, just click on the same right page spell again. A second instance of the spell will fill another box on the left page.

Remember that the new instances of a spell are unusable until your character sleeps. Also remember that the lead member of the party (the guy in the top position of your party line up) stands guard and does not sleep, unless you are in an Inn or other protected sleeping place.

Question for you, Calagari - did you pick any pockets in Kuldahar? There are some life-saving items on three NPCs (Orrick, Arundel, Oswald) - if you don't have them, that may account for some of your trouble. You may wish to trek back and get them - HINT: save before and after each attempt to pick pockets. If you fail, the victim turns hostile and so does the whole town. Same if you injure somebody.

If I only have one mage during mass-enemy situations like the ones in Dragon's Eye, I use the majority of my spell slots for enemy-inhibiting spells - especially Web. I love that spell. If you can catch even half of the wights in it before they get to you, you're chances of survival go up a lot. You can also cast two Webs on top of each other or offset, so the enemies have to make two saving throws to get free or stay free. Spells like Prayer, Curse, and Chant will reduce opponents' saves.

Also, don't overlook the 3rd lvl mage spell Slow - you can buy it from Orrick, I think. Look at it carefully - hurts opponent AC and Thac0 by four, and halves movement rate and attacks per round - affected wights will only have one attack every TWO rounds. The spell is very difficult to save against, meaning your chances of affecting a significant number of them are quite good.

I assume you've found Protection from Fire now? 3rd level priest spell, cleric or druid. Hit the arrows on you priest spellbook, and memorize that ever-so-useful spell. ;)

Edit: Another tip - if you don't have enough spellslots for all the great third level spells, Oils of Fiery Burning do the same thing as fireball, just throw them. (you can "lift" two from Oswald, and he has a stock you can buy)

[ 10-14-2004, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

Since I'm headed into Dragon's Eye this is great info, guys. I'm such a lucky girl...men from everywhere giving me advice!

Btw, I saw that you suggest fireball. What level spell is that and can I purchase it? I haven't dualed over my mage yet so I'm depending on my bard.

Cary

Level 3 mage spell. Iirc, you can't actually purchase it in Kuldahar. You can find a scroll of it in Dragon's Eye, however. First level, in a statue behind the "boss."

You can get by without Fireball, but DE is a great place to experiment with it - timing, positioning, etc.

I made the trek back to Kuldahar and found many items on Oswald and Orrick. I also picked Conlans chest and got a great hammer. I did previously pick Arundels pocket and got the ring of free action, now I have 2 of those. I now have the protection from fire spell as well. I got a ring of protection +2 for my ranger to use in conjunction with the ring of free action. Now he should live a bit longer. I changed my mages spell books to reflect a few fireballs for each. With the new robes I got as loot just before I entered the 3rd area of Dragon's Eye I think I am ready now for battle. I do have the other spells you mentioned in the books ready to be used. I do have a pure mage and a thief/mage.

I have the oils in the quick slots ready to be used.

Nick suggested using some of Dundee Slayterns scripts. But once again I found myself having a problem with things like that. I downloaded the scripts.zip file and extracted it to my scripts folder. When I went to use them they didn't offer any text other then Custom Bard, pally, c/r etc. Will these work as shown or did I mess up something again? I couldn't find any explaination in the game of what the script would do. What I read of his scripts they sound very detailed and interesting. I really would like ot get them to work if possible.

I think the npcs will walk much faster now that all those items are removed from their pockets.

Yes, a pickpocketing is a good way of obtaining good items... but there's a problem. Some people simply don't like stealing... like me. I don't steal. It isn't true, you have dificulties playing without stealed equipment.
Right now, I am playing IWD with one character. All my party is Fighter/Druid and had no difficulties yet, except fight in Vale of Shadows, 1 level, fight with that priest.

Fireball is really good. As was said, you will find scroll in Dragon's Eye 1 level, in that large statue behing Lizard Man King. You can use Skull Trap instead Fireball, if you don't have it yet.

Casting several webs is a really good way to hold enemies. And when you cast curse and prayer, enemies are really in big shit.

Try even summon undead (3th level priest spells) and cast that yellow fumes (also 2nd mage spell like web). Undead are immune, so they can easily slash sleeping enemies.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Calagari,

Yeah, you're getting there. With the stuff you've learned and the stuff you've acquired in the last 36 hours, I'd say you are just about ready to kick Wight butt.

If some of your guys are close to leveling, I advise that you camp at the end of DE1 (near the entrance to DE2) and sleep/fight until they level. Then make sure you are totally rested with the right spell mix, before entering DE3.

With the extra rings of free action, the Web spells that Aerich suggested become extra effective.

Aerich remembers correctly: Fireball is a 3rd level Evocation (Invocation) spell.

Skull Trap (a Necro spell, IIRC) deals EXCELLENT damage; but the kill area is much less than Fireball and you have to get your timing right: Throw it too early and the first monster in triggers it, so only very few monsters take damage. Throw it too late and all monsters are already inside its trigger radius, so it does nothing. I believe Skull Trap is also a 3rd level spell. I have an Illusionist and a Bard, so use both Fireball and Skull Trap a lot; but my advice to you is to use all available 3rd level slots for Fireball, at least for the initial DE3 battle.

Remember: toasting every Wight and Troll at the scene, including those stacked up against your front line, without scorching ANY of your guys, is very doable. It just might take a little practice molding your front line to the right shape and getting the distance right; so save game just before entering DE3, and reload till you get it. If your Mage has two Fireballs and gets it right twice in a row, this encounter almost becomes a yawner. Correctly judging Fireball kill radius is a very valuable skill.

Off the subject unsolicited advice: Don't let the autosave be your babysitter, or you'll be sorry. Following the below rules *WILL* save you heartache later in the game.

1.) Save game at least once every 1/2 hour.
2.) Save game just before and after important points (battles, learning spells, pick pocketing, etc.) and just before entering doors that you suspect lead to new areas.
3.) Save to a NEW GAME NAME (e.g., DE1_01, DE1_02, DE1_03, DE2_01, DE2_02, etc.) at least once every 2 hours.
4.) Save game just BEFORE entering a new level or major area (like the caves in VoS) for the first time; and save to a NEW GAME NAME just AFTER entering a new area. This last is important enough to repeat: Save your game just before entering a door that you suspect leads to a new area (anything that makes you wait for a load; e.g., Black Wolf Temple level 1, BWT2, DE1, DE2, DE3, etc.) the FIRST time; and save to a NEW game name just after entering that loaded area for the FIRST time (to protect the save you made just BEFORE entering). These protected saves from just before an area loads are valuable for, among other things, re-randomizing treasure. (Randomized treasures are set the FIRST time an area loads, and do not change after that.) This starts becoming very important in the areas you visit just after DE.

</font>--------------------<font color = mediumspringgreen>
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
</font>

I didn't like the idea of stealing either that is why I missed the rings the first time around. I will say taking advantage of these npcs is well worth it. I couldn't believe how much Oswald was carrying. Without these items the upcoming fight is so much more difficult.

Calagari,

I've been reading your posts about being a new to the Forgotten Realm games. Here's my newbie tale.

I rolled my party last night and was in the tavern. I took the party down to kill the bugs. Being new to the game engine and all the buttons, I accidently had my party kill my paladin. He was dead before I realized it. [img]graemlins/lol.gif[/img]

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Silver Owl,

[img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] . [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] . [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] . WELCOME to the IWD Forum!! [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] . [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] . [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]

Isn't that sort of like fragging the platoon commander?

</font>--------------------<font color = mediumspringgreen>
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
</font>

That's all right, everybody has newbie mistakes when they start. I didn't read the manual before I started playing, and got wiped out by the goblins just outside of Easthaven a few times until I discovered Pause.

Just one more addition to the strategy discussion: you can cast Skull Trap into Webs, and as soon as a creature saves and starts to move, it will blow. Same works for the Glyph of Warding, although if you're short of 3rd level clerical spell slots, Animate Dead, Protection from Fire, and Prayer are generally better options. With creatures stuck in Webs, you have a little more time to judge the correct placement of area-effect spells and get the most bang for your buck.

Edit: Skull Trap is very valuable, because a) I think it does magical damage, which very, very few creatures have any resistance against, and b) it has no upper damage limit based on levels and c) because you can use it to set static traps.

If you ever have a bard, make sure to give ST to the bard (more vital than Fireball, in the long run), because a bard's casting level (effective mage level for spell damage, duration, etc) goes up every bard level. That means you get equivalent results for less HP than a mage, and casting level will generally be higher with a bard than with a mage.

[ 10-15-2004, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

...I didn't read the manual before I started playing, and got wiped out by the goblins just outside of Easthaven a few times until I discovered Pause.

Just one more addition to the strategy discussion: you can cast Skull Trap into Webs, and as soon as a creature saves and starts to move, it will blow. Same works for the Glyph of Warding

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Aerich,

I remember us helping a guy out a year or so back that, IIRC, made it to SH or DD with no pause! Amazing!! He had no clue, and was coming to us cause the game had finally gotten too hard. Whoa!! I told him that if he had made it that far with no pause, that we needed to take IWD lessons from him!!!

Hey, great pointer on the Skull Traps! As much as have I used S.T. and Web, I never even suspected this. (Reminds me of Calagari's talk about thinking in a rut.) Thanks!

</font>--------------------<font color = mediumspringgreen>
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
</font>

[ 10-15-2004, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

LOL! Yeah, the poor guy took it big time.

Thanks for the welcome.

Aerich,

I've been reading your's and NobleNick's posts on stratedgy since I found the site a few days ago.

My thanks! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Yeah, Aerich and NobleNick rock. They have so much game wisdom to bestow.

Someone got to DE without the autopause? Whoa, that guy is my new hero.

No kidding, mine too. I think he actually got farther than that - to Dorn's Deep. I don't even want to THINK about how difficult that must have been.

You're welcome. I like to talk about it, especially spell strategy. There's just so many neat things you can do. I have a party with 6 spellcasters that's most of the way through the Severed Hand, and there's a fairly detailed logbook thread that I had going. I don't have much time to play, so there haven't been any recent entries, but you can check it out here. It may give you some more ideas. Beware of spoilers, though.

Welcome to the Forum Silver Owl

I didn't know you could kill your own people. The game is great for learning about RPG's. By the time I finish this game I will feel more confident about playing others. On a positive note it was early in the game so you didn't lose much except to recreate another pally. I wish you good luck on your future adventures.


[ 10-15-2004, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Calagari ]

I am always playing without autopause [img]smile.gif[/img]

...I didn't know you could kill your own people.

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Then you must be a very quick study at placing those Fireballs! [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]

</font>--------------------<font color = mediumspringgreen>
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
</font>

autopause? Or normal pause? I finished the whole game without autopause... never use it... only started in IWD2 to autopause for detected trap... normal pause is a different matter...

<font color = mediumspringgreen>Without any pause (auto or other). I went searching for this incident. Didn't find what I was looking for; but something better, in a two year old thread, "Silly things Gamers Do," courtesy of our very own "no-pause-button hero"... PRITCHKE!!</font>

<font color = mediumspringgreen>In another post in the same thread, pritchke goes on to share some of the flaming hoops he had to jump through to accomplish such a feat. Another gamer made it to DE before discovering pause. See the thread for more details.

</font>--------------------<font color = mediumspringgreen>
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!
</font>

Personally, just for the role-playing aspect, I don't think lawful or good aligned characters should pickpocket or kill NPCs just to take their stuff. Many of the NPCs are friendly and want to establish trade relations with your party. It's simply unlawful and not "good" to steal from or kill them. On the other hand, if you play chaotic or neutral-evil characters, I suppose you ought break the law or do anything that further's personal gain.

Since I usually play good-aligned characters, I find it fun and challenging without the picketpocketed items. For example, instead of stealing rings of free-action, I try to disrupt spellcasters with missles, and use the Mantle of the Coming Storm and potions of freedom. Eventually, there are some free-action items anyway.

PS: I never found the cold wights to be a tough battle. A solo ranger with the +2 defender axe should be able to clear the level without much trouble.

Equip ranger as follows:
platemail
mantle of coming storm (AC bonus & cold resistance)
boots of fox (if you have)
black wolf talisman
+2 defender axe

AC should be -5 or -6 if you have 18 Dex. If you want lower, give potion of mind focusing for dex 21 (AC -6 or -7).

Then send out your ranger who will (unshielded) have 3 attacks/round. That should do it. If cadaverous undead is his/her hated-enemy, so much the better. Remember to switch to bow and shoot the exploding skeletons from a safe distance.

[ 10-20-2004, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: jmsteven ]

It's only a game. If it were real life I would agree with you, but its a game and we are allowed to do these things. That is why we have thief characters within the game.

Each of us are allowed our own feelings. There is neither a right way or a wrong way when it comes to playing a single play game.

Thanks for your suggestion on the ranger tactics.


Personally, I have an ethical issue with pickpocketing NPCs or killing NPCs just to take their stuff. Most of the NPCs are friendly and want to establish trading relations with your party. It's simply wrong to betray their trust.

Yeah, I sort of felt that way about picking pockets with good characters, but then I rationalized it. :D

Think about on the basis of need. Orrick never leaves his tower - why does he need a ring of free action? He doesn't even come out to help against any monsters. Oswald, same thing - and he has too much stuff in his pockets anyway - we're doing him a favour. Arundel sends you hither and thither to accomplish his aims, but doesn't give you any material help. Compare these jokers with your party, who are heroically fighting and hacking their way through hordes of monsters and taking grievous injuries every so often. Don't they deserve a little aid, even if they have to facilitate the giving themselves? ;)

I kind of agree about the killing bit. However, it's worth killing the NPCs once, just to find out what they're carrying (and how much XP you get from them). Some of them are downright rude to the saviors of Icewind Dale, and need to suffer for their impertinence. I feel no guilt about thumping those ones - especially one particular merchant.