Howdy
I'm currently playing BG2 ToB now, but am nearing the end. I just bought IWD and the expansion, HoW and also d/l Trials of the Luremaster as I need my RPG fix.

Any suggestions on what my party in IWD should look like? I'm figuring to play a party of good and neutral characters, out to "save the world" and make a name (and some gold) for themsleves - altruistic, but not completely so.

I am thinking along these lines:

2 fighters (perhaps one of them a paladin)
1 thief
1 mage
1 cleric
1 druid, or perhaps a multiclassed fighter/druid.

Any comments/suggestions?

Thanks.

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"Butt-kicking for goodness!" - Minsc
"Cities always teem with evil and decay. Let's give it a good shake and SEE WHAT FALLS OUT!!" - Minsc
http://www.dabros.net/images/tcampbell/hadb6copy.jpg

Good party composition overall. My biggest concern is the Thief. Thief's have some nice abilities (find/remove traps, pick pockets(only in town), and hide in shadows. The locks are harder to pick with all the IWDs installed, but you can force most of them open with a good fighter/cleric. For the Thief, i would recommend a multi classed character (single or triple.. most people hate triple cuz it's slow, but they have the capacity to reach 30/30/30 if you get enough xp). If you don't like multi class, try a dual class at level 8 or 9. By then you have most the theiving abilities you want at max, and it's not too long for the next class to overcome. Thief/Fighters are superb, while a Thief/mage is weak but versitile.
As for the Mage, try a straigh class so you get all spells.
The Cleric? well, clerics are essential. and it's nice to have a high level cleric in the party (maybe 2!). Personally, i like Cleric/mages and Ranger/clerics best cuz you get the essential heals along with extra spells to choose from.
The Druid? well, a fighter druid is the only way to go. Druids are just weak until they're reallly high level. I found that if you make a multi classed fighter/druid, you can only ever put 2 weapon proficiencies in each slot. If you make a Human druid and dual-class him into a Fighter after 18th level, you can make the most powerfull fighter druid who has weapon mastery (5 proficiency points) in two weapons (long sword and dagger, baby!). But of course, this means you'll be a solo druid for quite some time, then a straight fighter at some point in the Hear of Winter part of the game, then hopefully become a druid/fighter combo by the time you reach the Luremaster portion.
You fighters? well, a half-elf Ranger/Cleric or a Dwarven Fighter/Cleric can be very powerfull front men. Remember, clerics can cast "draw upon holy might" at 3rd level. This spell raises Str/Dex/Con by 1 point for every 3 levels of the caster; a deadly combo for cleric/fighter type classes.

Also, Bard are pretty sweet in this game if you got everything installed(sounds like you do). They get some special songs that kick butt on spell casting, plus they can cast mage spells and progress at about the same speed as a mage (though with fewer spells per level).

my all-time favorite party composition?
Half-elf Ranger/Cleric
Gnomish Cleric/Illusionist
Human Thief(lv8)/Fighter
Half-elf Bard

it's totally possible to play with less than 6 characters. as low as 3 even. In fact, it can be done with only one character! (Ranger/clerics and Cleric/mages have proven their powers to 'go it alone')
4 player parties are ideal for the Multi-class fans.

About the 4 player party thing:
not only do you get to level up more quickly, but you have less likelyhood of someone getting jumpped and dying in a stupid way. (mages and thiefs get smacked around like that) It can be real agrivating having to grab all your party member's loot and going back to town to Raise Dead every few battles. Fighter/Mages, now there's a mage you can't push around! (give him a bow and make him a range attacker; or a long sword and stone skin to make an invincible meele man)
One might Argue that with fewer characters the bad guys will swarm you more. Umm, i suppose they will. but they'll be swarming your two or three front men while the spell caster is ignored. And there are tricks like enchanting or healing a fighter during battle.
Of course, with less characters it means less inventory slots. That's not a problem in the Luremaster portion cuz of that bag of holding. but everywhere else, you gotta use gem bags, potion boxes, scroll cases and lug everything else in an open slot. Luckily, there are some good places to stash items in the game. Whenever you see an empty chest (especially near the entrance to a dungeon!) you might want to consider dropping less valuable items there for later (or valuable ones you know you'll be back for?).
umm, yeah.. sooo.. 4 player parties rock! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

Got to be honest Hayashi, Leafy's probably right (if you don't mind a newbie's opinion). The more I look into my own party composition I would tend to favour some of the cleric/ranger, cleric/illusionist, fighter/druid combos.
Having said that of course, I've been tempted to start from scratch with a bard on the books. Later on these guys can be real useful - you just have to appreciate that their spell-casting abilities will never be on par with a mage. Still, if you utilise the very successful cleric/illusionist they'll be able to learn and cast spells that your gnome cannot.
It depends whether you can stomach a violin playing popstar on your team (and few can).

The best advice is forward-planning; look at what you can do with that character later on when they advance. Also, as I've learned to my cost, read the damn spells veerrry carefully. "Stoneskin?" I mean, just how useful is that? "Static Charge" anyone?

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Making running away an art form

For what its worth, here was the composition of my favorite party:

2 straight fighters, a fighter/thief, a straight cleric, a fighter mage, and a cleric/illustionist. Thus, I had 4 fighters, 2 Clerics, 2 mages, and a thief. The combination of cleric/illusionist and fighter/mage were awsome to play and real party savers.

Albromor's got the right of it with his mage composition as I've only just discovered with my own party. The single player Bard's going up the ranks nicely, but the spell memorisation is, to use an expression, PONY!

I mean, three first levels spell, max, from levels five to fifteen. Plus you cannot utilise some of the magical equipment for mages that would balance out this "problem" (though I think there is a Bard MI that doubles first level spells).

Of course I put it down to being unfamiliar with the class, and that time will tell. I just hope that the new bardic songs are worth the effort.

Suggestions anyone?

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Making running away an art form

-paladin (human)
-fighter (dwarf) (evil)
-druid (elf) (neutral)
-fighter/thief (halfling)
-cleric/illusionist (gnome) (choose good for alignment!)
-bard (halfelf)

did I miss anything!?! (every race,alignment,class(except ranger..but it sucks)


Nantes=0 Galatasaray=1


[This message has been edited by Last OTTOMAN (edited 10-01-2001).]

Lord Brass, you dunno what good StoneSkin is? well, it protects the spell caster from direct damage. So let's pretend you're being swarmed by cold wights and needto cast Fireball. Well, if you have a spell like Mirror Imager and/or Stone Skin cast, then the wights can hit you without actually hurting you. This means less broken spells; a much needed lifesaver for spell casters.

As for the Bards, there is a harp adds some extra spells. There's also a Necklace and perhaps one other item (weapon?). All in All, the Bard spell casting is limited in # but since bards level up so quickly, the spells grow in strength very quickly. Spells like Flame Arrow become devastating at high levels. Plus, the bard songs make up for the lack of spells. The 'hold person' song is perfect for Dragon's eye; and the War Chant is ideal for almost any situation. (you'll find yourself always singing that song once you get it)
And as stated previously, bards are an adequate compliment to the Specialist Mage beause they can memorize all the spells of the mage's oposition schools.
It has also been noted that Bards aid the high level Druid's "summon shambler" spell because of their natural resistances to damage and the Bard's ability to augment those resistances with the War Chant.

Apologies for my attempts at humour Leafy, obviously not my strong point!

The reality is that I've only just discovered how good Stoneskin really is. I guess that I was confused with the Barkskin equivalent of the Druids. From the posts you guys have written in the past, the Bard seemed like a nice alternative to the more obvious classes (having never played one before). The songs appear really useful, and I can't wait to try out the War Chant. Still a long way for that however.
One thing though. If you "cast" a Bard song, does that mean that you must maintain concentration (or playing) which would appear logical, or can you cast other spells/move/attack and still receive the benefits? (If the answer's in the manual and I just haven't noticed it then sorry.)

BTW How's the party composition coming along Hayashi?

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Making running away an art form

Haven't started yet, I want to finish my game of Baldur's Gate 2 Throne of Bhaal first. Almost at the end tho', so I should be starting IWD SOON. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif Work & family permitting, of course.

I was fooling around with IWD over the weekend. I take it there's no way to create a few characters, save and create the rest of the party during another session?

There certainly is.

The facility to create a new character (nearly) anywhere in the game allows you to replace combat casualties, or just change your party if you feel like it. I think you can do it as long as you're not in a fight.

The one thing I would say to be aware of however, and I cannot remember if this is the same in BG (having never played BGII) but the six character slots you are presented with form your "actual" party order. If you go into an area that has to load the data e.g. into a new section of a dungeon, then your party will emerge with character slots 1 & 2 first. Thus, always place your main fighters here when you create your party. I've been caught out that way once too often.

Other than that, create a few characters, start the game, save and create the rest when you feel like it.

BTW I'm near to the end of BG, so how's BGII?

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Making running away an art form

I highly, strongly recommend BG2. If you can, get it, and the expansion Throne of Bhaal (ToB) as well. You create only one player character (the protagonist) but you can recruit up to 5 others during the course of the game. There are more than 5 NPCs of course, and part of the fun is getting the 'right' NPCs to suit your playing style and the party. Certain characters do not get along and may even come to blows (eventually). Did I say you can start a romance with some of the NPCs? Depends on you PC's race and gender of course.

Story-wise, I dare say BG2 is better than IWD in the sense that the story that begun in BG continues in BG2, with a new 'bad guy'. And ToB gives a sense of closure and concludes the epic.

Game wise I can't compare as I've not played BG. But while combat is a major element in the game, not everything boils down to hack n' slash. The characters can advance to really high levels - my PC in BG2 is a level 34 kensai! Great puzzles and side quests abound. High level monsters too - dragons, liches, a demi-lich or two, high level mages, trolls, umber hulks, plenty of drow, to name a few.

In a sense IWD will take quite some getting used to. It'll take quite a bit of adjustment when you're accustomed to swatting away goblins with no effort, and here I am in IWD when goblins are a major threat! http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

I agree that BG2 and TOB are a must have if you like IWD. As for getting used to being lower levels as you start IWD, I'd say that it can pay to hang around an area like the vale of shadows for a while and gain xp killing yetis and the local balcksmith will give you cash for the pelts too. Unfourtanatly the spells in that area you can buy are a bit pants though. Anyway to answer the origional message I think that the following is a good combo for games, but it depends on your playing style:

Mage/Cleric
Mage
Ranger
Fighter/Thief
Fighter
Fighter.

This gives you lots of magic and the thief to open the locks, chests etc while you have lots of power in the thick of it as well. also as the ranger gets high level he will be able to cast spells as well!

Thanks for the comments. Funnily enough, on the way to college I saw a copy of BGII reduced by a third of it's price. So I bought it. As you would.

Don't forget Druids though, pdh. Those boys rock at later levels. I mean, you can even turn into an elemental at level 11! That and Static Charge will really put the grief amongst the bad guys.

One thing that has concerned me about multi-class mages and clerics is that you cannot utilise those Mage Daggers, but it appears a small price to pay. Still, think of all the spells you get (which is true of the cleric/ranger too).

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Making running away an art form

Bard song works a bit like Turn Undead - you click the button, and when the next round begins, your bard will start playing. You can walk around and continue playing, but if you take any other action such as attacking an enemy, the song stops (try wielding a sword and playing lute at the same time).
Some of those songs are so good though, your bard is more use singing than fighting!

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http://www.gldb.com/wayno/e1.jpg
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas
Proud winner of the 'Most Useless Post 250 Has Ever Seen' Award 2001. "I'd just like to thank my friends and family, without whom none of this would have been possible..."

Thanks Epona, that clears up that little question.

Guys, since this morning (well morining for me anyway), I've obviously had time at college to scan through the BGII manual and...what are the spells like! I thought IWD was harder on the old grey matter than BG when it came spell-related cheekiness, but BGII is something else.

Fortunately, I've still got BG/TotSC, as well as HoW/TotL/IWD to complete. The summer has run out, and its back to the old grindstone for this poor alloy http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif

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Making running away an art form

Thanks for all you replies. I have just completed my game of BG2 and will be starting on IWD soon.

Just some questions to those of who graciously replied:

1. Why choose a cleric/illusionist? Many of you seem to take this class.

2. Would it be better to have a straight thief or a fighter/thief? Multi or dual classed? I am thinking of creating a halfling thief to get the max bonuses.

3. Similary, straight druid or a multiclassed fighter/druid (influenced by Jaheira here http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...miles/wink.gif )?

4. Would be cleric ba able to make a good secondary tank?

Thanks.

Why Cleric/Illusionist? Because he gets the most spells<period>. As a Specialist, he gets one more mage spell per level. Of course, he sacrifices Necromancy and Abjuration spells. The only real loss for necromancy is the high level "horrid wilting" (which can wilt your party if you're not careful!). As for Abjuration, there's the globe of invulnerability and one high level protection spell. All in all, it's not a bad trade (especially if you have a backup spell caster like a bard ot mage).

As for the Thief, i prefer Dual classing a Human from a Thief to a Fighter. By about 9th level as a Thief, you max the thieving abilities you really want (pick pockets? find traps?) then change over to a Fighter and master the bow or dagger or something! as a fighter/thief, you can only ever specialize in a weapon and eventually that thief class will become a boring thorn in your side while you try to level up. (BTW,no exp awards to Thief abilities like BG2)

Druids? personally i'd say be a druid first to lvl 18, then bevome a fighter and master the dagger and symitar! but realisticly, the fighter druid is a very playable choice. thogh they can only ever specialize in a weapon as well.

Clerics make excellent secondary tanks because they have high hitpoints and can wear heavy armor while casting. fighter clerics even more so (they KILL very well when enchanted).

How's it going Hayashi? Listen to Leafy, his comments just about cover it.

The Cleric/Fighter(Ranger) is a wonderful combination. The thing that makes them so good occurs at level 2 for their spells; Holy Might is the "dog's" once you've proceeded up a level or two. (If you're an old player of AD&D you'll expect some limitation to that spell, but there isn't one!)

Remember, for the old guys amongst us, level limits are only defined by the game/expansion that you have installed. Don't worry about 'Unearthed Arcana' or any of that nonsense. This is AD&D the way it should have been all along!

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Making running away an art form

Choices, choices, choices...

Here's what I've decided:

1. Paladin (high charisma, will function as the party's spokesman).

2. Dwarven fighter (2nd tank)

3. Gnome mage (to get 19 INT)

4. Halfling fighter/thief

5. Half-Elf cleric

6. Last one's a bit tough. I can't decide between a bard or a fighter/druid multiclass. I'm more inclined to go with a bard just to try it out & see.

Comments? Criticisms? Thanks.

Hayashi, if you listen to the veterans, those guys/gals, can't understand why you'd even take six charaters. For the rest of us, the choice of all six is a difficult one. At the moment, I'm running:

1. Dwarven Fighter
2. Dwarven Fighter
3. Half-Elf Fighter/Druid
4. Half-Elf Fighter/Thief
5. Gnome Cleric/Illusionist
6. Half-Elf Bard

Some people don't like straight forward fighters, but they level much quicker and can develop faster. With all said and done, it's these boys/girls that will take the brunt of the punishment so make 'em tough (you can't beat Dwarven 19 CON in IWD).
This party's been alright for me, but it does lack a cleric/ranger which is an awesome combination of spells/weapons. You have to have a Druid though (as I think I've said, check out Sir Moosington's 'Druids Shock' post to find out why). Well, that's my opinion anyway, and as any good IWD player will tell you, why bother with a single-class thief. Ever.

Well, I'll be a monkey's...my graphic's just changed with this post!

Bugger! My graphic changed two posts ago and I never noticed. Spot the observant boy!
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Making running away an art form

[This message has been edited by Lord Brass (edited 10-06-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Lord Brass (edited 10-06-2001).]

Won't you lose the theif's ability when you d/class him until he reaches one level better as a fighter? I'm concerned about traps and locked dors & chests.

I've come across precious few locked doors and chests in this game. Most locked doors require keys to get through, and those that don't can easily be bashed by one of your "tank" characters. The traps thing is a bit sticky, but the only time it's really a problem is in Chapter 2 in the Dragon's Eye. If you dual your thief right after Dragon's Eye, s/he should be fine through the next couple of chapters (and the experience starts rolling in during Chapters 3 and 4, and very few traps there, except for one notable place in Upper Dorn's deep (and I won't spoil you further there). During that time, have your cleric memorize "Find Traps" and use it. By the time you need to find traps again, your dualled thief should be back up and running as a fighter/thief.

Of course, you could multi as a fighter-thief from the beginning, but a lot of people don't like multi characters because they take so long to level up...unless you're running the 4-character party.

Oh, and I would recommend dualing at 8th level Thief, max. If you have a bard and a ranger in your party, ignore "Pickpocket" (Bard gains in that automatically) and "Move Silently" (Ranger gains in that automatically) and concentrate on building up "Find Traps" and "Open Locks"...unless you want to use your thief for backstabbing (which I've found to be not really worth that much and it places a rather weak character AC and HP-wise in a vulnerable position if backstab fails). Pickpocket is also pretty lame in this game, as you can't steal from merchants and there's precious little good stuff that NPC's carry. That may change in HoW, but since I haven't gotten there yet, I don't know.

Cheers,


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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/saz.gif

[This message has been edited by Sazerac (edited 10-08-2001).]

Little Spoiler!

About party composition, I always have a paladin and two mages of some sort;usually one is multi-classed. The reason is simple: (SPOILER!!) the paladin is the only one who can use Pale Justice(an awesome weapon)effectively, and I find that the extra magic ability of the second mage really helps on the final fight in HoW.
And trust me on this I've beaten the game 4 times, you must have plenty of magic. By the by, while 4 characters advance faster, 6 gives you more options. Besides if you are worried about experience turn up the difficulty level on the game.

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You wore out your welcome with random precision.

You crazy_diamond, you. I must confess that I've never taken a paladin - well, once as an experiment in BG, but it didn't last. Can't say that I've ever really enjoyed their skills. Now I'll have to go and look at the items lists to see what I'm missing!

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Making running away an art form

Actually rangers are quite good and can use stealth and at lvl 6,7,or 8 can use mage spells and they have good attack abilties and weapon catagories.

Chow
Necromancer3000

Actually, druid spells rather than mage spells, but yes, that's definitely a plus. Also, I've noticed that the ranger scores far more hits with missles than the others do, regardless of prof. levels.



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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/saz.gif

Ur one smart cookie Sazerac and u post replys all over ub\ve been really helpfull,thanx

Necromancer3000

If you want to play with a party entirly created by you, starrt a multi-player game, create 6 characters and export them under the pre-generate screen. Assign control of all characters to yourself and then begin the game. After you save just move the saved game file from the multisave file folder to the saved file folder and restart the game as a single player game. I haven't gotten as far as you seem to have but I can't see a difference between either of my single player games. Although I don't have to listen to Jaheira and Aeire squable all the time in the second game.

I am considering restarting the game & I have the following party composition in mind:

Paladin - leader of the band
Elf fighter - to utilise his bow and long sword bonuses
Fighter dualled to mage at level 3 - put more points into weapons whilst still a fighter, plus higher hps when starting out.
Bard - for pickpocket, lore ability and songs. Plus mage spells subsequently (must remember to roll 18 for INT next time, doh!!)
Cleric/Ranger - priest & druid spells
Dwarven fighter/thief - best possible starting stats for open locks and detect traps.

Any comments? Critiques?

Hey Hayashi. So, not happy with the previous party for some reason? I've got to be honest, I still don't see the attraction with the Paladin. Cleric/Ranger? Now that's a class!

I will say, and people will disagree I'm sure, but my bard's about 15/16th level (just went up I think) and I'm finally getting fed up with the fact that spells are so limited. If it wasn't for their songs, and one in particular, I would have multi-classed them long ago. Proper mage. That sort of thing.

Having said that, of course, dwarven fighter/clerics are good. Think of all of those 'Draw Upon Holy Might' spells you'll get later on!

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Making running away an art form

Thanks, Necromancer3000! I appreciate that, and I'm always glad to be of a little help here and there. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/no...iles/smile.gif

Cheers (and best wishes!)



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http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/saz.gif

There are many many combinations that work well, but here's my party:
1. Halfling or Elf Fighter/Thief with proficiencies in Bows, Daggers and Short Swords.
2. Human Conjurer (the best specialist mage in my opinion)
3. Cleric (any race except for Gnomes - wisdom penalty)or Druid
4. Fighter/Druid(half-elf)with proficiencies in Daggers, Spears and Slings or Dwarven Fighter/Cleric with proficiencies in Slings, Morning Stars and Hammers.
5. Fighter (any race except for Halflings due to strenght penalty)with Grandmastery in Long Swords, Proficient with Bows and Specialized with any other weapon.
6. Ranger (any possible race is good)with Skeletal Undead as racial enemy and specialization in Bows and any other weapon the previous characters didn't use.

paleden
cleric iltionest
fighter/druid
fighter/thefe

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shawn harden

use 2 to three magic users must have a druid they are to cool

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shawn harden

It's interesting to consider a party with only spellcasters in it. Larry was talking about doing just that thing on the BG forum. I'll have to give it a try, as the unpleasantness you'll be able to unleash should be...colourful to say the least!

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Making running away an art form

play a fighter, take him to level 9, and then dual him to a mage. he will have lots of hp, and when you get to level 10 as a mage, you will have a mage, with not only lots of hp, but a good sword, shield, and if smart, will be able to use a bow. he will also be able to go all the way to his max as a mage, so he can cast all of the cool spells too.