He "possesses the most of Bhaal's essence, except for you."

He's saved for the very last.

He sends his underlings to threaten and kill Sendai and Abazigal, respectively.

So why is he such a pathetic loser when it comes to actual combat? Even in his Improved version, I was forced to--oh no--withdraw a party member from the fight and have him drink some Potions because he was getting low on health. Oh dear. And we took him on without even any spells, buffing or otherwise: We just ran up and whacked his Monks, then pounded on the man himself.

Even Improved Gromnir put up more of a fight than this twit.

Does anyone out there think he's difficult?

I don´t. :/

What makes him even more pathetic are those "Lunar stance!" lines and other idioticies he keeps shouting... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Same. My PC archer almost could duel him 1v1 and win... in melee!

Only thing that could possibly make him difficult....

is if your party is nothing but mages. His magic resistance could give a party of mages some trouble until they use the Lower Resistance spell.

The lunar stance is supposed to make him cause extra fire damage and I think it heals him too IIRC.

Neo, that resistance can be taken care of in about 2 seconds. You stick a few 'lower resistances' in a spell trigger and cast it on him right away.

Six is right. Balthazar is a pathetic monk. My currently level 18 monk from SoA could probably kick his butt in 1 on 1 combat. Anyone have any idea what level monk he is?
Seeing how Balthazar's monks are so weak (yet barely weaker than him), he either needs to be given stronger protectors or be made considerably stronger. He should have faster than normal movement for even a monk since he has so much of the Bhaal essence in him. His level should be raised considerably. Since he doesn't seem to be tough, his 'to hit' needs to be raised (raising his strength should be fine. Maybe to 18/00? Or if it is already around there, it should be put higher, like 21.). A strength of 21 may seem to high, but think about it. He's got plenty of Bhaal's essence in him, he's a fighter, and he needs to be able to hit you in the first place to even deal out damage. From 18/00 to 20, the 'to hit' factor is at +3, so if it needs to be increased, it should be placed at 21 so that he gets a +4 to hit.
Can't really think of anything else right now since he can't cast spells. I dunno what special abilities he could be given either.

Gotta agree with Six as well. Balthazar is a pathetic excuse for a monk. He has to be the easiest of the five without ANY doubt.

Easiest one, I agree. Maybe that first one with the boots of speed was easier, that's it.

He doesn't have a prayer against 6 PRATIs... trust me on this one.

PRATIs?

Sorry, I've been out of the loop as far as acronyms go, what spell is that? o.o

Project Image +
Robe of Vecna +
Amulet of Power +
Time Stop +
Improved Alacrity

Maybe Big B should be given similar special abilities to that of CHARNAME. He could DUHM at the beginning of the fight, and cure himself. Maybe even transform into the slayer if the going gets tough, but thats a stretch.

Well, you'd have to do some super mega cheese to get a hold of 6 Robes of Vecna and 6 Amulets of Power [img]tongue.gif[/img]

1 Mage/Sorcerer = 6-8 PRATIs

Why should he be able to turn into the slayer? He hasn't lost his soul to have the slayer take over his body. Giving him similar abilities to CHARNAME is a good idea.

Why should he be able to turn into the slayer? He hasn't lost his soul to have the slayer take over his body. Giving him similar abilities to CHARNAME is a good idea. </font>[/QUOTE]You can still go Slayer after you get your soul back. But I think it's against Balthazar not only to become the Slayer, but to use any of his Bhaal powers. He's trying to remove the taint from the land, correct? Then why on earth would he go Slayer, moving him closer to the taint he's trying so hard to stamp out? That's why him being a monk seems right. It's all about mastering yourself.

Just like CHARNAME? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Oh, well, i never bothered checking up on if it does anything, since it still doesn´t do enough to save his sorry ass. [img]tongue.gif[/img]


So... Anyway...
Instead of Bhaal powers, i think some sort of psionics would suit him better...
I mean, the question is, since he´s such an lousy fighter, then what HAS he been practicing all that time? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Just like CHARNAME? [img]tongue.gif[/img]
</font>[/QUOTE]No. It was never stated that CHARNAME has to be a monk. Monks can't be hastened, but I suggest having his lunar stance or something cause his movement rate to increase even more. Well, it actually doesn't even need to increase his movement rate. Maybe it could just give him an extra attack or so per round.

What about the passive ones, like permanent Negative Plane Protection or Physical Resistances? While I agree that he certainly wouldn't use Slayer Transformation or Hand of Murder, he certainly needs *SOMETHING* if he's going to stand up to the PC (let alone the entire party), and that something could come from nothing other than his Bhaal essence. He probably wouldn't see anything wrong with using it to enforce his views on what should become of the Bhaalspawn situation: If his Bhaal essence is what got him INTO this mess, then it can darn well get him OUT.

What about the passive ones, like permanent Negative Plane Protection or Physical Resistances? While I agree that he certainly wouldn't use Slayer Transformation or Hand of Murder, he certainly needs *SOMETHING* if he's going to stand up to the PC (let alone the entire party), and that something could come from nothing other than his Bhaal essence. He probably wouldn't see anything wrong with using it to enforce his views on what should become of the Bhaalspawn situation: If his Bhaal essence is what got him INTO this mess, then it can darn well get him OUT. </font>[/QUOTE]I didn't think about the passive ones. I agree on that point; I just can't see him using the spell-type powers.

And I agree, he DOES need something if he's going to stand up to the PC. Maybe you proved yourself wrong... He certainly doesn't do a good job of standing up to the PC. If only he had used his essence...

Maybe a mod where, in the beginning parts of the fight, he doesn't use his bhall powers out of whatever belief he has, and then when he gets to near death or something, a conversation comes up, and he comments on how much better you are than he thought or something, then he starts using bhall powers? Stupid idea?

Am I allowed to agree with you?

What powers would he use, anyway?

"Curse you, Charname! Your power is much greater than I thought. I cast.... VAMPIRIC TOUCH! DRAW UPON HOLY MIGHT! HORROR! SLOW POISON!"

No, I meant *good* Bhall powers. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

+1 to Wisdom?

But if charname would be a monk, then he would have to have the same special increase in speed. [img]tongue.gif[/img]


Anyway.
Abazigal is a dragon, Sendai has her statues, Gromnir has those wizards, and Illasera just sucks.

So anyway, i´m thinking that it would be most unfair making Balthazar anything more than equal to an monk-class Charname of equal level, he´s only human, and Charname has certainly been through more trouble than he, and also has more essence in him.
So in my opinion, Balthazar must not be "over-improved".

Instead, i think the focus should be on his lackeys.
Maybe he could have a handful of higher-ups from the monastery by his side in the fight; some stronger than generic monks.

Also he should have some better survival abilities, so that the player can´t just ignore his helpers and go for him and him alone.


[EDIT]
BTW...
If that´s supposed to be a quote from the post mortem interrogation of Yaga Shura (as i suspect it is), then i think it goes more like this:
"...most of bhaals essence? Certainly you, but also the Five."

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 07-13-2005, 03:57 AM: Message edited by: GoblinZ ]

Balthazar is a smart, but frightened man. He has great fear of the power that came to him due to his heritage. He fears that he might one day lose himself to the bloodlust, to the touch of the Lord of Murder. Therefore he has devised a plan to destroy Bhaal's essence once and for all, and to make sure he accomplishes this feat he has a group of faithful followers: the Honor Guard, a group of monks and fanatics who protect their master from all harm.

Balthazar himself is a weak monk, afraid that any harmful action that he takes might awaken the essence inside him. Instead, he embraces a life of solitude and lives his life as a hermit. The Honor Guard protects him from those powerhungry individuals who are after Balthazar's hidden powers. And they stop at nothing to protect their master from enemies.

+1 to Wisdom? </font>[/QUOTE]Iced Coffee all over the keyboard. :water:

I believe the Ascension's Improved Balthazar already has 22 Strength. And around 19 or 20 Constitution. (I recall looking at him in ShadowKeeper.) And I could have sworn I saw him using Hand of Murder in the Ascension final battle. But giving him more or better helpers (maybe some mages and Priests of Lathander - Summon Astral Deva has no place in Irenicus' dungeon, but I think by the time you reach Balthazar you could reasonably expect it) would help him? Or giving him better innate abilities (imagine if Faster Than The Eye was equivalent to Time Stop rather than Dimension Door?).

I tend to agree with Link as the view is pretty consistent with the conversations the PC has with him. On my last run through (only my 2nd) I persuaded him to help me in the final fight and it seemed much more gratifying than fighting / killing him. Of course I was playing a Lawful Good Paladin so it was not so much of a stretch to get him to join. An Evil PC (not sure about a Nuetral one) obviously can not take this path and wouldn't give a 2nd thought to killing him...no matter how weak or strong he was.

Balthazar seems to have one goal in life...destroying all traces of Bhaal. For him to even consider using any Bhaal powers...even when faced with his own death seems counter to everything he stands for.

I'm not sure I agree with that. He *is* a member of The Five, after all. He just seems more like a "end justifies the means" type of guy who would use *any* weapon at his disposal.

- Imrahil

[ 07-14-2005, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Imrahil ]

+1 to Wisdom? </font>[/QUOTE]Slayer?

+1 to Wisdom? </font>[/QUOTE]Slayer? </font>[/QUOTE]I still disagree... His life's calling is to stamp out the Bhaalspawn. He's a monk; they tend to not give up their life's callings.

[ 07-15-2005, 01:34 AM: Message edited by: Illumina Drathiran'ar ]

Grrreat, now EVERYONE´S disagreeing. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

What I find most ironic about Balthazar is that the most difficult part of my return to Amkethran is dealing with the stupid Mercenaries, Balthazar's a doddle compared to them. (There's dozens of them, you can't keep tabs on them all, and they all have really low THAC0, okay?) They're almost enough to make me take Balthazar seriously....if it wasn't for the fact that I have all the time in the world to Rest, Regenerate, etc., before I go to see the Man Himself.
So I pondered this setup: But then I realized: As neat as Bhaal's essence might be, it can't give Balthazar the power to summon up an infinite supply of living human beings, all fanatical enough to throw themselves on the blades of their enemies on one man's say-so. Balthazar needs power in himself, not his Kleenex Brigade.

Possibilities (apart from the possibility of a one-on-one duel):
1. Fist of the Ram ability: Similar to the Ring of the Ram (except can be used multiple times per day, and only works within melee range), it punches right through most spell & combat protections and usually disrupts spellcasting. Coupled with Balthazar's partial immunity to Time Stop, this could even the odds against Wizards, particularly if he or one of his attendants has a Wand of Spell Striking.
2. Aura of Exhaustion: During the 4 rounds in which this ability lasts, anyone striking Balthazar with a melee weapon has a 25% chance of being Fatigued (which stacks). May be cast multiple times.
3. Standing Stone: Balthazar is Stoneskinned, and for 5 rounds gains -6 to AC and +35% Physical Resistances (stacks with Hardiness). His movement rate and Attacks per Round are reduced to 25% of their original amounts for the duration.
4. Folding Flower: Balthazar's Magic Resistance is set to 100% and Saving Throws are set to 1, for 5 rounds, and he also gains +35% Resistance to all forms of non-physical damage. During this period, his THAC0 takes a +20 penalty.
5. Multiple Me: Creates a Simulacrum of Balthazar, then both the copy and the original are Mirror Imaged (and possibly Misled). May be used only once.
6. Balthazar himself is permanently immune to all Traps.

As stated in my previous post, I believe Balthazar to be a man who knows very well the danger that comes with his heritage. Why would he then allow himself to become powerful? Why would he want to gain all those powers when he's unsure whether or not he can control them?

Actually, am I the only one who thinks Balthazar is scared of his heritage?

Well said, Link. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm afraid I disagree with you about Balthazar's being scared of his heritage. My impression of him was that he genuinely believed he was doing something right. As we learn from "The Transformation and the Dream" in Spellhold, your Bhaal powers can come out whether you like them to or not. Actually, some of the powers he uses may not come fro Bhaal at all - they may come from his monk training.

I actually like the sound of that. This isn't Improved Ilyich, this is the last fight before the very hard Ascension battle, and you expect it to be a similar difficulty or maybe a step lower. Is it a worry, though, that the PC still has a six-man party who will be of higher level than Balthazar's monks? Maybe in addition to his cool monk powers he'd like two or three really good helpers like (off the top of my head) an epic-level Cleric of Lathander, Stalker, and Invoker?

Hrumph.

I don´t like the sound of making him an turbo monk who kills all.

In my opinion he should either have a handful of powerful followers, OR his surroundings could be trapped heavily; it´s his home, and he´s smart enough, certainly it´d be logical for him to have prepared well for the confrontation? :/

I'm afraid I disagree with you about Balthazar's being scared of his heritage. My impression of him was that he genuinely believed he was doing something right. As we learn from "The Transformation and the Dream" in Spellhold, your Bhaal powers can come out whether you like them to or not. Actually, some of the powers he uses may not come fro Bhaal at all - they may come from his monk training.
</font>[/QUOTE]

I don't see this as a contradiction, really. Can't he be scared of his heritage and at the same time genuinely believe he's doing something right? I know that in "The Transformation and the Dream" you learn that your Bhaal-powers are unpredictable, but surely you must agree with me that actually giving in to the essence (as Bhaal tells you to do!) is giving in to the bloodlust that's in your veins? In the end it's your choice, and your choice alone.
I see Bhaal as a manifestion in each of his children, but a sleeping one for that. He's waiting for his children to shed blood all across the Sword Coast, and the strongest one of them all (i.e. the one who's the most powerful, vicious, cunning etc.) will eventually ensure his ascension to the Throne.

In this line of thought, Balthazar will undoubtedly not allow himself to commit acts of murder, acts of violence or any of that kind. He will not allow himself to give in to the taint. After all, that's what you are told in one of the sequences in your Pocket Plane as well: (something along the lines of:) "You are no innocent bystander yourself. How many have you killed to get here?"
I see Balthazar as a person who's willing to sacrifice everything (including his own life) to remove the taint of Bhaal from Faerun. This means he will not, ever give in to it. He will have wanted someone else, a group of faithful followers (or some such) to both protect him from others (so he will be one of the last to survive the massacre), and protect himself from giving in to the bloodlust.

Phew.. I really hope I've made myself clear with this speech. I understand if it's all a bit vague, but that's what the whole saga is about, right ;)

[ 07-15-2005, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Link ]

Well, Link makes some very good points, and I like what Six is saying, too.

So why can't we have it both ways?

Remember, people, he's a monk. If all he wanted to do was control the taint, he'd remain a level-1 commoner and stay in a remote village somewhere. He picked the class of self-perfection so he could control the taint at all times, no matter what. On the way, he picks up abilities not only to protect himself from those who would try and use him, but to enact his ultimate plan- removing the essence from the Realms. So we can have it both ways.

And Six, you're right. Even though Balthazar has the greatest amount of essence other than you, he can't summon up an infinite supply of human beings. That's Yaga-Shura's job.

Well, in the case of Yaga-Shura, the endless supply is meant to simulate an army. [img]tongue.gif[/img]