Yeah can any1 tell me y this is?
Or is this a bug?
Y then do u get the option in your special abilities icon to change into a SLAYER when u just DIE shortly afterwards?
Wot then is the purpose of it?

<span style="color: lightblue">The Slayer is extremely powerful - it's the avatar of a god, even. But it would just be *too* powerful if you could stay in Slayer form permenantly, or even for the duration of a large fight.

He is not that powerful if you are a mage.
Sarevok, Korgan or any decent fighter will beat the hell out of him.

Minor spoil ahead.
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While playing with a wild mage, I was hastly killed by the challengers you face at the very first challenge in the pocket plane...

I think that LennonCook's point is that the Slayer is supposed to be the most powerful character, even if the game isn't quite balanced that way. Imagine going through the rest of SoA turned into the Slayer (especially with five powerful NPCs at your side). Where would be the challenge in that?

The power of the Slayer is NOT his fighting prowess, how good that may be, but his various immunities. He is immune to imprisonment, maze, charm, confusion and more...

sorry u can take off that other post it was actually in response to this TOPIC or place that TOPIC here and take off this one....It was an accident I clicked POST NEW TOPIC instead of POST A REPLY.

Hey Wisefool. Could you perhaps pay a little bit more attention to writing in just basic english, instead of MSN-liked abbrevations and such? It makes reading your posts a lot easier.

Is it really immune to imprisonment? That's a new one to me. I'm aware that it gets a decent amount of resistance in just about everything, but that's a new one. What are the other things it's immune to?

Come again? I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying your Abazigal thread was meant to be in here?

ADD] Oh, I see. I have closed the other thread. You may refer to it via this link.

Click Here

On a side note, unless there is some sort of life or death emergency going on, you might want to seriously consider avoiding shortcuts. It can really make your posts much more readable. Making 'be' into 'b' is not abbreviating, it's just plain madness.

[ 03-19-2004, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

I don't know if it's immune to imprisonment and can't test it right now (how's that for a meaningful contribution) but wouldn't you die if you were imprisoned as the Slayer?

Slayer is immuned to Imprisonment. It is a valid tactic against Demi-Liches.

Come again? I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying your Abazigal thread was meant to be in here?

ADD] Oh, I see. I have closed the other thread. You may refer to it via this link.

Click Here

On a side note, unless there is some sort of life or death emergency going on, you might want to seriously consider avoiding shortcuts. It can really make your posts much more readable. Making 'be' into 'b' is not abbreviating, it's just plain madness. </font>[/QUOTE]Yes and people who don't know those shortcuts (like me) think that you are mad because the sentences are silly. Please I know it takes more time but type every letter [img]smile.gif[/img]

I think the slayer/death issue makes logical sense when you consider just who the PC is, the prophecy and of course the Bhaalspawn aspect that the slayer represents. I see it as a kind of madness if you like. A schizoid severing of personalities, whereby death has come as a result of the slayer taking over the PC's mental state.
You can survive for a short time remember...but its potent force and bloodlust is always pushing, pushing, forcing itself further into consciouness which eventually if left untended, the mind breaks down.
:D

@Dundee. Plain madness? Would you prefer unique madness then? [img]tongue.gif[/img] (Not to say I don't agree with you on the issue of course) ;)

[ 05-20-2004, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: CerebroDragon ]

Interesting discussion, though there are some points to make. One, the Slayer form is not all powerful in that I have yet to see it imune to time stop. Two, the two alternative slayers which are seen in the game in the challenges were beaten by the fighters in my group. Three, has anyone other than me noticed how long the Slayer form lasts before harming your PC when you reach the throne of Bhaal.

What pisses me off about the Slayer is the Reputation loss (-2). It makes sense in most situations, as being seen as an avatar of a dead god of murder should really piss some people off. But, I don't think it should amount to a hill of beans when there's nobody around to see this transformation (like when fighting a demi-lich, or in the underdark).

From what I understand, there's a mod that takes care of things like this... The one that seperates evil actions from negative reputation... Perhaps someone can refresh my memory?

Well, party members witnessing the change may not approve. Hence the reputation loss.

I can see it now:

Aerie: Look everyone! He/She's the Slayer!!! RUN!!!!

The only use I have ever seen with the Slayer is fighting Demi-Liches when there aren't any Spell Immunity scrolls around, and when I'm too lazy to charm a Mind Flayer to open one of their complex doors. Reputation loss though? Not really a big deal, considering you do a godly amount of quests in the game to make it rise anyway.

The Slayer itself really isn't the most powerful thing that you can turn into, but I guess if you add in a couple HLA's during the change, he would be half way decent.

I really don't think that you should die during a slayer change. I know that you have the essence of a god taking over you, but I don't see it as something that should kill you. Look at it like this, when you transform, you lose points of reputation, start losing control of your PC, and depending on how long you lasted, it'll cause damage to you afterwards. Too many penalties just to be killed in the end anyway. They should have made it where depending on how long you lasted, when you return to your normal form, there would be some kind of stat change. Considering having the essence of a god of death, it would tax your mind or your constitution and so forth, being temporary of course.

Virtue<span style="color: lightblue">.

OK, but _every_time_ you change? Then again, considering my recent complaints about Korgan and Viconia repeating themselves incessantly, maybe that makes sense too.

[ 05-24-2004, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Feral ]

Imoen's Diary
5 Flamerule 1360
Today Mara turned into the Slayer to get us out of the prison. I guess it's justifiable, as we needed to act quickly, but I really don't like it, and I'm sure there was another way out.

14 Flamerule 1360
We killed a Demilich earlier... It was a tough fight, and it attempted to imprison us, but Mara... turned into the Slayer again. I told her that she could stand back, that I had a spell that could prevent imprisonment, but she wouldn't hear it. At least that evil floating skull was defeated, but I really don't like this.

24 Flamerule 1360
Today we fought Bodhi.. Mara ripped her to shreds. I told her that I could use the Sunray from Daystar to weaken her, or that I could handle her myself. She wouldn't listen to me.
Mara's changed. Every time she changes back from her Slayer form, she seems more distant, more irritable, even. I tried to read her aura today and it was far different than I've ever seen it. I felt nauseous.

30 Flamerule 1360
That's it. That was a group of bandits we could have easily handled, but Mara went Slayer again. I don't get it. It was almost reflexive for her. The first arrow was shot, and it hit her, and she flew into a rage, almost as if she had transformed without even thinking about it. Tonight I will have to confront her about it. Keldorn already left the group, and Jahiera is ready to. I need to stop this before it's too late.


The diary ends here.

Illumina, did you make that up, or is it rteally from somewhere?

Made it up in response to Feral's "Every time you change?" post.

I personally take the Slayer the most usless thing in this game. I never,ever used it. I can kick anyone`s butt with good party and wepoans, without losing reputation and taking damage from the stupid transformation.

Right. [img]smile.gif[/img]

So the big question is: should your reputation decrease by 2 at 5, 14, 25 and 30 Flamerule, or just at 5 (when she sees it for the first time) or just at 30 (when she really can't take it anymore)?

Every time. It gets worse and worse, a growing problem. If I designed the game it would start out at a loss of 1, then 2, then 3, then 4, and so on every time you did it until 15. Then you'd start taking hits on Charisma and Wisdom.

That brings us to Xen's point (and others before Xen) that the Slayer is at best a so-so avatar of a god. The penalty you're suggesting may be fair if the Slayer was really as powerful as it sounds.

I don't care how powerful it is... Becoming the avatar of an evil god should really have more permanent or long-lasting effects on the way one acts or is percieved, don't you think? Especially the god of murder.

And we know that its power is so-so compared to how powerful the PC normally is.
Consider how many peasants you could slaughter with the Slayer.

I think the power of the slayer is often relative to what level your PC is and obviously your class can play a role in whether it is useful or not.

For example, a potent fighter might not feel the need to turn to the slayer, happy and proud of its own sword arm. However, a soloing mage may find instances where it could be very handy indeed! (If he has run out of spells or whatever...there are many other cases I could think of)
Think of it as a more potent form of Tenser's Transformation! (not counting the potentially deathly and moral side-effects of course)

So I don't think its very wise to generalise the slayer as weak or useless in power, as it varies from game to game and is often relative to your level.

I know when I first got the ability when I first played Bg1, the slayer transformation intoxicated me! My Great Druid also used it a bit in the final battle in ToB to good effect.

As to the argument that transforming shouldn't result in death, well...I'll just say that we're talking about an incarnate, instrumental force of death itself here. If your only willful thought was to kill maim and destroy, how long do you think your repressed rational self would survive?
Not very long I think.

Like I said, I think of it as a schizoid kind of madness which destroys the PC's mind if the slayer form is taken on for too long.

Nice diary entries too Illumina, a point well illustrated.

[ 05-26-2004, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: CerebroDragon ]

I never used the Slayer myself. However, I do see the point about how a Soloing Mage may be tempted or will use the Slayer.

Yes, it should. I'm simply saying that the impact on how you're perceived shouldn't escalate, if the audience remains the same. As for the effect on the protagonist - absolutely. Sort of a Faerun Picture of Dorian Gray.

All of them.