A rather goofy thread, but an interesting subject nonetheless. <font color=white>FINAL BATTLE SPOILERS</font>

Bhaal's Holy Symbol is a human skull, viewed head-on, surrounded by 13 tears flowing in a counterclockwise direction. Assuming that the 13 tears are physical objects (or manefestations of Bhaal's divinity), where are they? You gained 5 of them through your Trials in Hell. With Ascension installed, the results of the Pocket Plane challenges could easily equate to another 5. (Both of these places would be logical situations in which to "come to terms" with fragments of your father's soul, as they were both created by your Bhaal essence.) Are there 3 more Tears out there, sitting in some Lost & Found waiting to be claimed?

And rummaging through some of BioWare's concept art, http://www.bioware.com/games/throne_...ml?galleryID=7 (top row, far right), I see that Amelysan is wearing 5 of the Tears of Bhaal herself. Regardless of how she got them, this brings the total to 15--are 2 of them phonies?

Random thoughts: A "Missing Tears" MOD that allows the PC to locate/earn the missing 3 Tears (looted from the last 3 of the Five, perhaps), and allows the Tears (<u>all</u> the Tears, even those earned during the Hell Trials) to be given to ANY Bhaalspawn in the party, not just the PC.

[ 07-15-2003, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

REMEMBER, THIS HAS SPOILERS

If she has 5, and you had 10, can't we just pretend that 10+5=13, not 15? [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] Well, I'd think that maybe she added a little magic of herself since she's trying to become a God.

Maybe you are sharing two of the tears? Like Melissan has them during the weekdays and the PC has them during the weekends) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Do the tears even do anything for Mellisan? Boost any stats or whatever?

Maybe the tears, as metaphysical aspects of Bhaals nature (or whatever) can exist in a physical form in more than one location at the same time.

Baldur's Gate: The Custody Battle [img]redface.gif[/img]

<span style="color: lightblue">Interesting that after the two sets of hell trials, there are exactly three remaining... interesting that the developers may have seen this, and prepared for it, but left it out... interesting that I can see *exactly* where the final tears should be picked up.
Interesting enough infact that, once the mod I'm working on now is released, I'll start work on a small mod to put the final 8 tears physically into place. Shouldn't be too hard to make once I get a couple of basic ideas worked out.
Some of the stuff in Ascension makes a bit more sense to me now. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Interesting thought, Lennoncook, but I doubt any Tears will be won during the Final Battle itself, since [Amelysan] + [the PC] + [possible few remaining Bhaalspwan] = 100% of Bhaal's essence. Or does it? Even so, winning the last 3 Tears from silencing the Pools implies that Amelysan had to spend a significant part of her power (not something she's likely to do) to summon folks like Cryonax, and risk losing that power to you when you use Cryonax to mop the floor.

Putting the final 3 Tears into Ascension would indeed be a nice fix, but in my opinion that contibutes to ToB's glaring linear plot structure. I'd much rather see this as additional background for new MODs that take place in ToB--my "Bhaalpriests" MOD idea might be one, as they could quite logically hold a Tear, and a nice quest for Imoen could have a Tear at the end of it as well--as could a quest for Sarevok. Just random thoughts, of course.

[ 07-17-2003, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

<span style="color: lightblue">I would argue that it implies you drawing the power from her, which seems to be the point of the pools, anyway. Ascension already grants you Bhaalspawn abilities from the 5 challenge rooms, and the three pools, meaning that to put the Bhaaltears in would be simply to change the way you get those powers.
<span style="color: lightblue">I agree entirely with TOB needing a few more sidequests... as it is, I can think of exactly 3, whereas I can quite easily list 20+ in SOA. But, something this related to the main storyline should be /part/ of that main storyline -- for the same reason that you can't exit Irenicus' dungeon, go do the De'Arnase Keep, go back to Athkatla and there's Imoen waiting for you in the Copper Corronette . Put, it's always possible to put a few sidequests in aswell... the Bhaal Priests sense the tears you hold, and try to murder you for them, for example.
While I'm at it, I think I'll try to fix some of the bugs in the SOA Hell-trials, too...

BTW, does anyone happen to have a reliable list of the bonuses you get in all of the trials (SOA Hell, Pocket Plane, and the Throne of Blood), for both good and evil paths ??

SoA Hell:
FEAR TEAR (the Nymph cloak) Good: Immunity to +1 weapons or less Evil: +2 CON

SELFISHNESS TEAR (sacrifice for companion) Good: +10 resistance to magic Evil: +2 to your AC

GREED TEAR (the Blackrazor sword) Good: +2 to all saving throws Evil: +15 to HP

PRIDE TEAR (the dragon) Good: +20% resistances to fire, cold and electricity Evil: Gain 200,000 experience

WRATH TEAR (Sarevok) Good: +1 to WIS and CHA Evil: +2 to STR

This was taken from Dan Simpson's BG walkthrough

Um, what are the pocket plane bonuses besides XP???
And what's the Throne of Blood???

Lord, you may want to put in some spoiler tags. ;)

I'm assuming you mean the bonuses with Ascension or improved Bhaalpowers installed, rather than base. They just give you 30,000 quest XP otherwise

ASCENSION POCKET PLANE SPOILERS
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2nd Test
Good => Mass Healing
Evil => Regeneration
3rd Test
Good => Draw Upon Holy Might (Instant)
Evil => Dark
4th Test
Good => +5% Magic Resistance and Immunity to Level Drain
Evil => Hand of Murder
5th Test
Good => Resurrection
Evil => (EDIT)25% Resist to slashing, piercing, blunt, missile.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 07-19-2003, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: True_Moose ]

<span style="color: lightblue">Lord, the Throne of Blood is the final arena - Bhaal's Throne. It's called that in the opening movie... "One thing remains certain: as long as Bhaal's Throne of Blood stands empty, chaos shall reign".

Thanks for the lists... now all I'm missing is the Throne of Blood bonuses (with Ascension installed), and I already know two of them - DDoor and Focus. Which only leaves one, which I can figure out fairly easily... I've still got an old final save around here somewhere...

*cough*Control Demon*cough*

And I don't know if this'd be any help for you, Lennon, but the Revised Hell Trials (which I consider a near essential mod for proper roleplaying) has neutral versions of all the Hell Trials too. Those bonuses may want to be factored in aswell. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Whoa! So that means there are only four Tears collected in your Pocket Plane. Unless you get the last one from Cespenar for bringing him a nice imp girlfriend.....

What bugs would these be? The abuses I sent to UserUnfriendly to be part of his Cheese Guide? [img]smile.gif[/img]

<span style="color: lightblue">TrueMoose, thanks for the spell... and yeah, I was thinking of the Revised Hell Trials myself. I'll talk to the author about using their content in this mod. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Six, I have a small idea for the fifth Pocket Plane tear... although, the bonuses from it would be hard to decide on...
And yes, I do mean the ones you sent to UserUnfriendly. If those can be fixed (which shouldn't be hard), I'll do it.

Immunity to Maze and Imprisonment would be quite nice, I'll say that much.

Nah, thats what Ascension's for. Focus, among others, makes you Immune to those things for a period of time.

Wich things? Not Maze and Imprisonment!
Only Time Stop AFAIK

I wonder if the developers counted the 3 original Bhall powers you get during BG1 as Tears?? I think I would.

5 From Hell
+5 from ToB trials
+3 from BG1
_______________
18 tears/abilities

lol, a mini game for Cespenar, good aligned characters who can have a familiar only. Coach him through dating your Pseudo/Fairy Dragon, and out of gratitude he gives you a tear..
"Master left poor Cespenar one of his shiny tears, yes. Cespenar anger Master and Master threw pretty tear into Cespenar's nose, he did. Ooooh. New Master can have tear now."

What is the point of getting the tear from him? What good does it do you?

Entertainment.

If you meant, what good does the tear do...read above =)

<span style="color: lightblue">I have officially started working on this mod. There is a discussion forum for it here, where I will be posting updates as I go along. I'm planning on making this mod a little bigger than just putting in a few new items, so I will be posting some small amounts of 'teaser' material as I go. Guest posting is enabled there if you want to give feedback, and I will still be looking at this thread for people's ideas. [img]smile.gif[/img]