Hello there.

I was just wondering how you fellows would defeat the grumpy little demon on the last level of Watchers Keep.

I'm soloing a Kensai/Mage 21/22 level.

I specifically need to know what his weaknesses are, do timestops work, does he have magic resistances etc etc.

Cheers lubbers [img]tongue.gif[/img]

PS. Demogorgon is it?

Yes, demogorgon. Timestops dont work on him. I dont remember if he has mr or not. He isnt that hard, though. Im sure the regulars can give you some good advice.

http://gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii...demogorgon.php

Grumpy, indeed. The Demogorgon fight had me scratching my head for a bit as well. Dragon's Breaths, Comets, and "lesser" spells (Magic Missile, Melf's Arrow, Skull Trap, etc.) rolled off him like water off a duck. On top of that, he seems to regenerate at a fairly healthy rate and has healthy resistances. All around yucky for any adventuring mage.

I would heartily suggest making intelligent use of the following:
--Simulacrum (if it can cast anything helpful)
--Project Image (w/Spell Immunity: Divination to protect from True Sight)
--"Meat": Fallen Planetars, Mordy's Swords, Skeleton Warriors. Virtually anything you can stuff in that room to keep Demo busy.
--Improved Alacrity. There's really nothing quite like it.
--Resist-lowering spells. Pierce Magic, Lower Resist, etc.
--Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting. This was virtually the only thing I could get to damage Demogorgon.
--Chain Contingency. Enemy-Sighted -> 3x Wilting is always nice.

My solution (over)simplified:
Project Image -> Alacrity -> SI: Div -> "Meat" -> -Resists% -> Wilt ad nauseam.

Something like that is definitely plausible. (It worked for me. Roughly.) Being a Kensai/Mage, you may even be able to score close-combat hits on him. His AC is still quite formidable, though (-12 or somesuch?).

Or you could try Dundee's "Bunny Nuke" technique.

-Lem

If you happened to get greater whirlwind attack as the 2nd of your fighter class HLA's(you would have to have selected whirlwind attack as youre first), it will help you immensly.

Oversimplified:
Potion of speed/whirlwind, Ki strike, chop. And just hope he dies before you do...

Well I just got there yesterday as well...and when the ghost said that the imprisoned one was the prince of demons I actually made a second thought of casting that scroll..., but Im no chicken and that beast is going down and this will be a most extraordinary moment to try out the bunny nuke tactic :D ..

What sis the bunny nuke tactic? (I assume it invovles limited wish)

bunny nuke did nothing to him, but he fell pretty too darn easy in the old fashioned way....

Lure some of the lesser demons onto the upper level and cast two Mord's Swords on each stair case, they should distract and stop the the demons from attacking you while you concerntrate on Demogorgon

I mostly agree with Lemmy's ideas... slight nitpick, though:

Demogorgon is immune to Lower Resistance, and Pierce Magic does not lower the target's Magic Resistance. ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Pierce Shield, on the other hand, would be a good idea. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Pierce Magic does lower the target's Magic Resistance, but Pierce Shield will be more efficient. CContingency 3 Pierce Shields, then Bunny-Nuke him, instant KO. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Demogorgan would spent the next eternity screaming repeatedly, "No! Not the bunnies! Not the bunnies! AHHHH!"

Funny thing I tried that, but it didnt have any effect except that Imoen died...

Demogorgon is immune to Lower Resistance, and Pierce Magic does not lower the target's Magic Resistance. ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Pierce Shield, on the other hand, would be a good idea. [img]smile.gif[/img] </font>[/QUOTE]Oh...it doesnt? Heh well when I took him down I loaded up a Spellstrike with 3xPierce Magics... I didnt know they would be ineffective, but he fell anyway... 4 ADHW (3 of them in a contigency), Dragons Breath, Firestorm and Storm of Vengeance casted under improved alacrity took him out pretty fast while he was busy fighting my summons [img]smile.gif[/img] . Oh and I threw Valygar and Keldorn in there for some fun, but they got slaughtered when the Demogoron turned my summons(Mordekainens Sword, Earth Elemental prince). Valygar was slain and Keldorn quickly chickened out, then they took care of them tough summons that was left and the mission was accomplished [img]smile.gif[/img]

You did remember to make sure your party had immunity to Magic Damage beforehand right? Bunny-Nuke is not caster-friendly, nor is it party-friendly.

To say it one more time, Pierce Magic does lower Magic Resistance, but since Demogorgan is immuned to level 1-6 spells, it will bounce off him. Pierce Shield is your only option to lower his Magic Resistance using spells.

I am just wondering what demogorgan drop's when you kill him.

P.S Please Spoil Me.

You did remember to make sure your party had immunity to Magic Damage beforehand right? Bunny-Nuke is not caster-friendly, nor is it party-friendly.

To say it one more time, Pierce Magic does lower Magic Resistance, but since Demogorgan is immuned to level 1-6 spells, it will bounce off him. Pierce Shield is your only option to lower his Magic Resistance using spells.</font>[/QUOTE]I know its not party friendly, but I couldnt care less [img]graemlins/evilhaha.gif[/img]
I summoned the bunnies, Read out the Wish scroll and talked to the Demogoron.
Then the Djinni spoke to me and I told him to launch the Nuke. The nuke exploded but Demogoron was Uninjured. Note that at this time the bunnies were all over the place. Maybe if they had been centered around the Demogoron, he would fall instantly. This could probably be done with Improved Alacrity and a Timestop. Summon the bunnies, cast timestop, Read out wish scroll, talk to Demogoron right before the timestop ends and nuke the bastard.

So even lvl 6 spells wont hurt him? I used Kelbens Warding Whip and Ruby Ray of Reversal on him then cast a good deal of ADHW and Storm of Vengeance and IC while summoning Devas and Planetars to keep him busy with his things. He fell at last and was a little easier than expected. He is after all the prince of demons...

Spoiler:
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Dust :D (he doesnt drop a s**t)

[ 01-17-2003, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: Brennihelvete ]

SPOILER

Demo doesnt drop anything, except for a load of exp.

BTW, the bunny nuke tactic is something Dundee found out, involving Wish. Use the "I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies", which summons a horde of rabbits. Then use the Abi Dalzhims on everyone in the area, and watch anyone in the rabbits presence get Koreanized....

[ 01-17-2003, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Pyrenk ]

Prince of the Demons!?!, well I reckon that Demogorgon fancies to call himself that and surely he is quite powerful (his personal palace is made up of three entire layers of the Abyss).

Still most planar scholars agree that his claim to that title is a little more than spurious. The facts of Tanar´ri politics seldom sees the light of day.

It kinda' bites that you don't get sqwat from him. I chopped him up and forgave the clerics up top. I was wondering if you go and kill the Priests at the top, do you get anything good, or just some random equipment?
(Wondering if I should go back a save right before Demogorgon if there's something good or important I missed...)
-R

If you do that you wont get anything but another battle. Demogorgan and his Mariliths Drop nothing. Though the false Helm guys that u lured down to his lair has some minor trasueres that can be lotted after the battle.

Dundee:
"To say it one more time, Pierce Magic does lower Magic Resistance, but since Demogorgan is immuned to level 1-6 spells, it will bounce off him."

I wish the game would kindly *tell* you these damn things. Instead, it has a variety of cryptic "Spell failed" messages. Pah. Liches immune 1-5. Rakashahs-whatevers immune to, what is it, 1-6? Demo imm 1-6? Sometimes I feel like I need a copy of the "Monstrous Manual" just to not look like a complete dunce. Infinity Explorer can only help so much if you don't know what "Immunity to Effect: (random string of digits)" is.

I mean, would it be so hard to incorporate hints into the game *other* than in the form of "(Name)- One of the spells has failed." messages? Note how it says "one of THE spells" not "YOUR spell failed" so as to remain completely cryptic and non-helpful; leaving you to wonder whether the Lich's spell fizzled or yours did. Is it (Name)'s spell that failed, or did a spell fail against (Name)? For all I know one of the things Lichy cast during his time stop didn't work. That sort of thing.

Now, as for incorporating little "hints" into the game, take Demogorgon as an example. If you don't attack him outright and get the Helmites to go into the Keep, you'll talk to that ghostly Helmish priest woman. She could *easily* make a point to say, "But if you decide to kill Demogorgon, you'll need spells of at least 7th level to do anything to him." Lesson learned: Never trust ghosts. Which brings rise to a new party idea: Bill Murrary, Harold Remis, Dan Aykroyd, and that other guy - The Ghostbusters. 4 Undead Hunters wreaking havoc upon *ALL* annoying spectres (Watch out, Wellyn!). No proton packs, but Carsomyr can chunkify ghosts all the same. (What's with being able to *chunk* ghosts, anyway?)

Whoops, digressing. Revenge on Helmish clergy later. Late now. Must sleep.

-Lem

The game does tell you, but you need to make sure that you did not disable combat feedback. When an enemy does not have Spell Immunity and you get the message, <font color="white">Spell Ineffective</font>, then it means that that particular enemy is immuned to spells of that level.

Rakashas are immuned to spells of level 1-7 by the way.

Dundee:
"The game does tell you, but you need to make sure that you did not disable combat feedback."

It isn't disabled. It's enabled and, insofar as this goes, non-helpful. That's the problem.

"When an enemy does not have Spell Immunity and you get the message, Spell Ineffective, then it means that that particular enemy is immuned to spells of that level."

"Spell Ineffective" is not the same as saying "Monster is immune to spells of that level." "Spell Ineffective" could mean the given monster is immune to that *particular* spell. The game doesn't specify that "Spell Ineffective" applies to a group of spells. "Spell Ineffective" is a cryptic hint; the game isn't telling the gamer much at all.

-Lem

Generally, Spell Ineffective means that the target is immuned to spells of that level. If the target is immuned to just that particular spell, the game usually uses "Monster is immuned" text instead. Spell Immunity is a special case though, as it means that the target is immuned to spells of that particular school.