ok so this watchers keep thing...is that for really high levels? or can you only get so far without dying? i don;t get it when (and what level) should i start exploring?

The first two levels are doable even with a level 11-12 party.

The rest of the keep, though, is much tougher - wait until level 16-17. [img]smile.gif[/img]

so i should be able to just walktz on through using level 21 characters? I am a timid beast

Level 21?!
Yes, and quite easily, too. [img]smile.gif[/img]

damn...i thought i was gonna be some CRAZY hard area thats like for right before you go to the final battle....so at level 21 its not a challenge then aye?

Levels 4 and 5 can still be a challenge, not to mention the Final Battle.

Don't worry.
The keep is fun. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I went in there with a level 12 party on my first shot through TOB, they came out level 17 ;) . It was quite a challenge though, i didnt even try taking demogorgon of coarse.

Well, there are "Level 12" parties and "Level 12" parties. For instance, my party is about Level 12 right now (we're zipping through the game, in the Underdark now), and there's no WAY I'm taking them into Watcher's Keep anytime soon. After getting my rear end handed to me about 10 times in a row by the damned Balor, I finally threw everything I had at him, and it was only just enough. That's because, frankly, it's a lousy party:
ME: NE Half-Orc Barbarian, 18/18/20/10/11/9
Valygar
Anomen
Cernd
Nalia
Imoen
How's that for an armor-restricted party? Only 1 of them can wear Plate. Not to mention I'm dragging Cernd along for the ride. Hasn't been much help so far, that's for sure. I'll keep him in GWW form for a while and see how he does as a Fighter.

Your Level 12 party, on the other hand, is probably much better.

It was good for me back then, but now i would probably laugh at how pathetic it was! More than likely my party would have had 3 fighters, 1 fighter/cleric or druid (Jaheira probably), aerie, and a pally of some sort as my pc. Thats my usual party format; 4 fighters, cleric or druid, and a mage. They can handle every situation and with 4 fighters i can maul large numbers of enemies and thus keeping my mage free from being attacked.

I zoomed (so i could get Solafein quickly) to the underdark this game and gave up after 3 shots at trying to take that baalor (i was level 10 i think, couldnt even hit him!). I ended up pick pocketing the lord of the gnome village for the gem. Adalon wasnt impressed. She then had the the audacity to blame *ME* for the destruction of the gnome city by the rampaging baalor!! I wasnt the one who dug up some 5000 year old demon was i?

Weird....I never even knew that could happen. I thought the Svirfneblin had the Balor securely locked up?

I think the Balor got tougher when I patched & BaldurDashed my game; I don't remember him inflicting Fear with every hit. Good thing I had a Resist Fear memorized, and lucky me, he uses all his Hold gaze attacks at the very beginning of the fight, so Valygar, Anomen & Cernd could wait in the wings until they were all used up.

Actually, SixOfSpades, that is not such a bad party. ;)

Barabrians are amazing tanks, especially with your CON score. (BG1, i assume?)

Valygar is an amazing NPC - his personal armor is probably the best armor for Stalkers in SoA, and while dual wielding Celestial Fury and his Family's Katana, he is truly a sight to behold.

Anomen is annoying, but powergaming wise, he is not bad. Weild the Flail of Ages and the Delryn Family's Shield, buff properly, and he can do some carnage.

Cernd is a Druid - so he can't be bad. ;)
Just don't use him as a fighter.
With IRONSKINS 24/7, Fire Elementals, Woodland Beings, Insect Plague and the ever-cheesy Nature's Beauty, Cernd can be the enemy Mages' worst nightmare. :D

Imoen and Nalia are both Mages. 'Nuff said, methinks. :D

I shall take this NPC and give him the best game equipment I can.

Praise Be!

I shall mix and match the equipment around to counter all his deficiencies.

Praise Be!

Verily powerful shall this NPC be.

Amen.

Dundee, making a subtle point. ;)

Yes, that would be a good start.
Rearrange his spell selection while you're at it.

We're getting somewhere...

Of course.
That was the whole purpose.

Alson, countering Dundee in the most annoying manner he can. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 11-13-2002, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Alson ]

Pfft! [img]tongue.gif[/img] ;)

Thou shall not anger the Gods of Powergaming once more!!
*roaring thunder*

[img]tongue.gif[/img] :D

Pfft! [img]tongue.gif[/img] ;)

Dundee, if you ever find yourself in Israel, i invite you to a good Israeli meal and a delightful game of Chess. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 11-13-2002, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Alson ]

Ah... I can't, not without breaking the law. Blame it on politics between your government and my government( Malaysia).

I meant to post this yesterday, but better late....

Yup, I played BG1 with a Human Fighter that I cheated into a Half-Orc Barbarian (better stats, but no Plate Armor). I *could* have had a STR/DEX/CON of 20/19/20 right now, but I played fair with my dice roll in BG1 and didn't use the + or - buttons to move my points into other skills, except for INT and CHA: My best die roll was 16/17/18/5/9/15. Not even a Half-Orc could grow up in Candlekeep and walk out with only 5 INT, and the 15 CHA didn't make sense either. Grint's done well by me so far, but as he's low-level (he just hit Level 13 last night), his Saving Throws were rather poor, especially with his magical armor. So he was constantly getting Confused and Dominated and Stunned and Held, as the Barbarian Rage certainly doesn't have much of a duration.

Valygar is also kickin' butt, but he has the exact same problem. Also, Thieves can wear Elven Chainmail, but Stalkers can't???

My only problem with Anomen is that we haven't done the Unseeing Eye quest yet.

Oh, yes, Cernd can CERTAINLY be bad. He only has 2 Level 5 spells, so Iron Skins loses out to Insent Plague, sorry. His AC as a GWW is -13 (yes, Dundee, I HAVE been giving him the good items), so he doesn't need Ironskins that much. He doesn't have too many hitpoints, though. I feel bad all over about using Cernd: Insect Plague is nice, but Nature's Beauty just feels too much like cheating. (Not that I've tried it yet....)

No complaints on Imoen or Nalia--Imoen's only half a level behind, and Nalia's up to 2 Level 6 spells per day, so that's decent. One odd thing, though, is that Imoen seems to have gotten some strange boost to her Thieving skills after I patched & BaldurDashed my game. I'll have to re-evaluate certain plans, Imoen-wise, and perhaps decide that there's no reason for them after all.

One thing I've noticed about this group: This is probably the very first "No Elves" party I've ever run! In fact, apart from my Half-Orc, we're all Human! Without Anomen's Helmet, we'd be running around the Underdark without Infravision.

Perhaps I should have gone whole hog with a "No Plate Armor" party, and used Haer'Dalis instead of Anomen. (Which would have presented a problem: I needed Anomen's Raise Dead a couple of times in Chapter 5.)

Huh?!
I thought you're from Singapore...
Israel and Singapore are quite a close allies, due to good, mutual High-Tech tradings. Israelis can travel to Singapore anytime.

Malaysia, on the other hand, is a different story. The dominant religion there is Islam, right?
*sigh*...
Sometimes i just feel that there is no hope for this planet... :rolleyes: