I want to create a Generic archer but there are some questions i need answered and some tips I need.
First up, should I dualclass to thief? Is that good or does it just make her less powerful later in the game? Im kind of after a semi-sneaky character but it does not really have to be like that.
I kind of want to be an elf so this rules out the dualclass option, obviously.
I COULD just giver her the appearance of an elf, as i find that better for an archer.

What party should I use? Im a goody two shoes as always [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Me - Generic Archer

Anomen for that rrrromance

Keldorn for Carso...If i go with a dual-class i will exchange him because I will get the use all item HLA so I can wield it myself

Yoshi+Nalia then Imoen

Solafein for his power

so I have another spot, should I go with Minsc? Some other perhaps? Give me the tips please!

Get Aerie. She's powerful in the later stages of the game.
If you want to Dual-Class, dual your Archer into a Mage. That's cheesey.

Dont want to be a chunk of cheese...I want theif or pure bowman

An Archer (I assume you are planning on playing a Ranger with the Archer kit) can only dual-class into a Cleric. You probably want to stay a Ranger.

Rangers get Stealth, so that's good, because you said you like being sneaky. Your best racial choice, power-wise is Elf. Elves get a +1 to hit when using a bow.

As for a party, use who you like. If it were me, I'd go with Imoen, Jaheira, Aerie, Minsc, and Keldorn (I like goody two-shoes as well).

Since you're playing a female, and want a romance, sub in Anomen, or I think you can romance Solafein too (I've never used this mod). While we're at it, what other mods are you using?

I am going to be a GENERIC Archer....

Then from the Sola Add-Ons I suppose.

You can romance Sola.

That also rules out multiclassing. Generic Archer is a fighter kit. You can only have a kit if you single class or dual class (and then only in the class you are dualing from, not that you are dualing to). Thus, if you are a demihuman (any of the non human races), you are limited to single class generic archer (barring cheating, but I won't discuss that). Humans can be single class or dual class generic archer to some other non-kit class (same options open to any other fighter). If human, you can do generic archer to mage, generic archer to thief, generic archer to cleric, or generic archer to druid.

Keldorn and Anomen are good for tanking, allowing you to kick back and shoot from a distance (however, generic archers are decent in a melee battle, as well). Solafein (sp?) is solid (mage with solid tanking ability). Yoshimo to Imoen works for your thief. This is already a well-rounded party, but you still have 2 slots. Aerie is solid (especially in ToB), but maybe try Jaheira instead (for the druid spells, plus she is a great tank with spells). You could also try Jan (the only thief you can advance through the game, plus a mage to boot). The choice is up to you (so try some people you haven't used before).

Legally, only Beast Masters and pure Rangers can Dual to Cleric, Archers and Stalkers cannot Dual at all. A rule which seems nonsensical to me, but I'm honor-bound to point out that it is a rule.

I played a Fighter-Archer(15)->Thief once, and he kicked ass. (My intent for the character was a Thief who was a crack shot with a Bow, but as Andyr's Sharpshooter kit fails to deliver this, I had to improvise.) The Thief component gave Brendan what he was missing from not being a Ranger, the armor restriction was no hindrance to someone who was constantly using his Thieving abilities anyway, and his Archer half came back in time for Improved Irenicus. I never even bothered taking UAI: What would I need it for?
I've also toyed with a Generic Archer->Druid: The armor restriction is similarly not a problem, there are such things as worthwhile Bucklers now, etc.
I would never play an Archer->Mage; that's even cheesier than a Kensai->Mage. Besides, even a Berserker->Mage will have a nice THAC0 with ranged weapons.

You can't plan a party until you plan your PC; although I will say that your party seems a little light in Tanking power.

Ok, so I will do a PC as a Fighter (Gen. Archer) and then dual him to Thief. What would be a good level to do so? I have ToB installed.

Party pretty much looks like this:
Me

Anomen

Keldorn - Later someone in ToB...got to redeem his soul, you know

Minsc

Sola

Imoen

i'm confused: you want an archer - you want an elf - you want to be stealthy . . .

so, why do you want to be a generic archer rather than a ranger archer?

just wondering . . . [img]smile.gif[/img]

^^ i agree... the generic archer ends up being slightly overpowered any way in my opinion... and having a ranger, a hunting woodsman as an archer is just plain cool in my opinion :D . but hey, it's your choice.

The reason for not allowing archers to be dual-classed (i believe) is to stop a character from reaping the massive bow benefits until level 15 (where the benefits slow down) and simply dualing once you've milked the best out of the archer.

Isn't the elf bonus only for LONG bows?

Well Im not saying exactly what I want...just wanted to know your opinions. I cant decide myself obviously [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Long swords and long bow only. Bear in mind that a high dexterity gives a missile 'to hit' bonus, and Elves (and the Archer/Thief dual especially) will almost certainly have a high Dexterity score.

I am going to be a GENERIC Archer.... </font>[/QUOTE]WTF is a GENERIC archer? Please elaborate. If it's a kit from a mod, keep in mind stuff like that is not common knowledge. If you mean "a fighter with a lot of points in a bow skill" then say just that. :roll:


Long swords and long bow only. Bear in mind that a high dexterity gives a missile 'to hit' bonus, and Elves (and the Archer/Thief dual especially) will almost certainly have a high Dexterity score. </font>[/QUOTE]Weird, I didn't know that's how it was implemented in BG. In AD&D, the bonus was to hit with long- and short- swords and bows. I wonder why they changed it.

The Generic Archer is a component of the Tactics Mod. It adds a fighter kit called Generic Archer. From the Readme:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Basically, it's just like the Ranger-Archer except that:
(1) you can specialize in melee weapons
(2) it is a fighter kit
(3) so any race and alignment are OK
(4) and humans can dual-class later to thief/mage/cleric

GENERIC ARCHER: The generic archer is the epitome of skill with the bow.
He is the ultimate marksman, able to make almost any shot, no matter how
difficult. To become so skilled with the bow, the archer has had to
sacrifice some of his proficiency with melee weapons and armor.

Traditional missile weapons are slings, short bows, long bows, darts and
crossbows.

Advantages:
- +1 to hit, and +1 to damage with any missile weapon for every 3 levels
of experience.
- Every 4 levels he gains the ability to make a called shot once per day.
When he activates this ability, any shot made within the next 10
seconds is augmented in the following manner (according to the level
of the archer):
4th level: -1 to THACO of target
8th level: -1 to save vs magic of target
12th level: -1 to strength of target
16th level: +2 bonus to damage

Disadvantages:
- An archer can only specialize in melee weapons; he may never obtain
mastery.
- An archer cannot wear any metal armor.</pre>[/QUOTE]A "disadvantage" (not really, because fighters normally do not get the ability) is no stealth. It is the only component of Tactics that I installed, just so I could have halfling slingers, dwarvish crossbowmen, etc. It is slightly overpowered if you dual (the generic archer to mage that Six mentions is especially cheesy, but some of the others are not so bad). However, I also like it better than the ranger archer because it lets you get bonuses for weapons other than bows.

[ 01-27-2005, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: Nerull ]

generic archer is a kit from a mod. I think it is an unfair one because it ends up making the archer even more powerful than the ranger version due to the fighter bonuses.

Long swords and long bow only. Bear in mind that a high dexterity gives a missile 'to hit' bonus, and Elves (and the Archer/Thief dual especially) will almost certainly have a high Dexterity score. </font>[/QUOTE]Well I don't really see why the choice of making the archer an elf (per Kruchy Frog's post above) is any better than making the archer a halfling. The halfling gets the same DEX, and significantly better saves versus poison and magic. The long bow bonus is only +1, and doesn't help much because you get the Tuigan bow very quickly, and that is much preferable to any long bow even with an extra +1. Not to mention Gessen is IMHO the best bow. The halfling has better CON than the elf but worse STR. But you're an archer for goodness sake - the CON is more useful.

So, I disagree with krunchy frog that the best racial choice for the generic archer, power wise, is the elf.

The Fighter Archer is indeed a bit more powerful than the Ranger Archer, but only a bit, and most of that isn't Weimer's fault--it's BioWare's. Ranger Archers are a bit nerfed in that they are not allowed to obtain Grandmastery in Slings and Darts, or to Dual-Class. The only 'error' Weimer made was to keep the Generic Archer's bonuses on the same level-based setup as the Ranger Archer's: Because Fighters level up faster than Rangers, a Fighter Archer will always have more Called Shots and Hit & Damage bonuses than a Ranger Archer of equivalent EXP. I suggested that Weimer correct these discrepancies in my Tactics review, but so far I am unaware of any action having been taken. Still, the Generic Archer isn't what I would call overpowered, barring the Archer->Mage Dual, of course.

<font color=plum>Not in 1st or 2nd Edition rules. In the first two PnP editions, elves got a +1 bonus with long swords and long bows, but not short swords. I don't know if 3rd Edition changed that or not.</font>

<font color=plum><font color=lime>krunchyfrogg</font> was talking about the Ranger kit, not the Generic kit. Since Rangers can only dual to Cleric and the OP wanted to dual to a thief (or perhaps mage), dualing the Archer seemed to be a moot point. Also, the Ranger/Archer kit doesn't get the bonuses with slings (IIRC). Since he can't dual, it makes sense to make the archer a demihuman for the racial bonuses. Since the R/A kit only gets bonuses with the bow, it makes sense to choose an elf over dwarf, gnome or halfling...because the elf is the only race that gets an extra bonus with long bows.

Tuigen bow IS one of the best weapons in the game (despite only being +1), but there are plenty of good long bows available also. With a Girdle of Giant Strength, the elf could take the Strong Arm bow and gain even more THAC0 bonuses.

As for the Generic archer kit, I agree that a halfling slinger would be an awesome choice (as would a dwarven crossbowman). In the generic kit, all races are fairly equal. The halfling and dwarf don't get the extra +1 bonus the elf gets, but (as you pointed out) they DO get a much better bonus vs poison and magic.

As for halflings having better CON, that all depends on the stats you roll. They have a higher maximum, but there is no gaurantee you'll get a CON that high. And the elf's higher DEX - in addition to the +1 bonus - gives plenty of reason to consider them as the ultimate archer (with bows) in the game. ;)

BTW.......

<font color=lime>WELCOME TO IRONWORKS, <font color=yellow>ISTER</font> !!!</font>


[img]graemlins/barbarian.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/barbarian.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/barbarian.gif[/img]
<font color=orange>Official Barbarian Salute</font></font>

I thought both halflings and elves got 19 dex?

<font color=plum>By golly, I believe you're right, <font color=red>Jerr</font>. Now that you mention it, I think halflings DO get a +1 bonus to DEX and they take a -1 penalty to STR whereas the elf takes the -1 penalty to CON.</font>

Cause I always up my halflings' dex to 19 :D

Halflings also have a WIS penalty. They're capped at 17. But they have a bonus with Slings to match the Elves' Bow and Longsword.

Yea, I tried making a Halfling Cleric once. Could only get 17 Wis :(

WIS is kinda of a moot point for an Archer.

Lol true! Though doesn't WIS help a Ranger Archer at least?

Not in the slightest. It has no effect on ranger spellcasting like it does a cleric, and archers do not get spells anyway. Might as well just leave it at the minimum required to be a ranger (or if doing the generic archer, at around 10).

Not in the slightest. It has no effect on ranger spellcasting like it does a cleric, and archers do not get spells anyway. Might as well just leave it at the minimum required to be a ranger (or if doing the generic archer, at around 10). </font>[/QUOTE]<font color=plum>Wisdom also helps improve your Saving Throws vs spells like Charm and Domination (IIRC), so it is still to your advantage to keep it fairly high. I always try to get WIS and INT both around 12-14 for non-spellcasters if possible. Naturally, I want them higher if I'm playing a spellcaster, but it doesn't hurt to have a good Wisdom score for any character (except maybe a barbarian or beserker - since their Rage will make them immune to mind-affecting spells anyway).</font>

It only affects the save if it is 15 or higher (15 = +1, 16 = +2, etc.). And, to be honest, I've played a mage with 18 in both Intelligence and Wisdom (high save vs. spells and a +4 to saves) and still get zapped pretty regularly without protection like Chaotic Commands, so I am not sure that the bonus is implemented in the game. If it isn't, then other than one area in the series that I know of (I won't spoil it) wisdom does not mean anything if you are not a cleric or druid.

<font color=plum>Not in 1st or 2nd Edition rules. In the first two PnP editions, elves got a +1 bonus with long swords and long bows, but not short swords. I don't know if 3rd Edition changed that or not.</font> </font>[/QUOTE]You better go back and look at your books. they got bonuses with long and short bows and swords.

no bonuses in 3rd edition: elves are just automatically proficient with these weapons,.

Unfortunately, your suspicion is true. The Saves Bonuses of WIS are not implemented in the game.

Or a Mage/Sorcerer.

And Archers (Ranger Archers, anyway) DO get to cast spells, just like any other Ranger.

Really? The one time I played as an archer, I never got spells. Must have been a bug (got everything else, though). Didn't really miss the spells, to be honest (I just shot everything into non-existence). And from what I've seen, high wisdom has no effect on the number of spells that rangers and paladins get.

Dundee, beyond specialization in a school, how does wisdom help mages? And sorcerers at all?

<font color=plum>Not in 1st or 2nd Edition rules. In the first two PnP editions, elves got a +1 bonus with long swords and long bows, but not short swords. I don't know if 3rd Edition changed that or not.</font> </font>[/QUOTE]You better go back and look at your books. they got bonuses with long and short bows and swords.

no bonuses in 3rd edition: elves are just automatically proficient with these weapons,. </font>[/QUOTE]<font color=plum>By golly, you're right. [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] I stand humbly corrected. [img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img] </font>

Wisdom is almost totally irrelevant to anyone who is not a Cleric or Druid.
Wisdom has nothing to do with the Specialist Mage kits, except that some of them have WIS as a secondary requirement: Diviners and Necromancers have a minimum of 16 WIS, and all Abjurers must have at least 15.
All Wizards would do well to have a high Wisdom for two major reasons: One 7th-level spell, and one 9th-level spell.
Mages would also do well to put some points in WIS, if only to assure that at least one party member has good Lore. (Sorcerers' Lore will always suck, though.)

Oops...forgot about those two spells (I usually stock up on potions of insight and have a mid to higher wisdom). Lore is useful in the beginning, but once you have vast amounts of money it is not as useful.

<font color=plum>Not in 1st or 2nd Edition rules. In the first two PnP editions, elves got a +1 bonus with long swords and long bows, but not short swords. I don't know if 3rd Edition changed that or not.</font> </font>[/QUOTE]You better go back and look at your books. they got bonuses with long and short bows and swords.

no bonuses in 3rd edition: elves are just automatically proficient with these weapons,. </font>[/QUOTE]<font color=plum>By golly, you're right. [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] I stand humbly corrected. [img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img] </font> </font>[/QUOTE]its cool./ the discrepancy in my games was always whether or not the elves' bonuses applied to composite bows or not.

My opinion is to download Apack and Song and Silence so that you can use the Sharpshooter Kit for the Thief, which I am currently playing a game through with.

She is bloody powerful I can tell you.

Thats my recommendation anyway

--Kestrel--