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Hello, i just got an idea while playing Bg2 today.
Spolier ahead! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Okay, when you have gotten the 15.000 needed to go get Imoen, you have two options. Shadow thieves - Evil band of thieves, tortures people, blackmailing, general evil. Vampires - Evil bloodsuckers, kills innocents, quite morbid creatures, and very evil aswell. Now, notice that the word "evil" occurs in both of the descriptions, and since evil is the opposite of good, and if done alot, will shatter the balance for "neutral" characters. Now, listen to this: Harpers - Neutral band of people, does not like evil, but they are not quite good either, now are they? That is why i suggest a mod to be made, that creates a THIRD choice in getting Imoen, the harpers. And here is my opinion on how it could be done. When you get out of chateu Irenicus, he kills the Shadow Theives, the Cowled wizzies come to the rescue, takes him and Imoen with them. Then when they have ported away, someone else ports in, right next to you, and (if you have one) your party. 1. Harper (No name yet) - "We have been watching you and your friend, she who just got kidnapped by the cowled ones. We know, they may seem to uphoold some form of "order", but inside, they all cary black hearts." 2 a) [CHARNAME] - I see, and who are you? 3 b) [CHARNAME] - Could you leave me alone? I have to go get Imoen. 4 Response to a) Harper - "I am one of those who harp, no more needs to be said." Response to b) Harper - "Ah but you see, this is exactly what we can do." 5 Response to a). [CHARNAME] - Right, so what do you want? Response to b). [CHARNAME] - Yeah right, get away from me. 6 Response to a). Harper - "We can get you to where Imoen is, and the magician who went with her, for a small fee." Response to b). Harper - "That is quite foolish of you. All we want is to maintain some form of balance, and if you despise us, be assured, you will certainly be approached by far, far, evil entities, but as you wish. I will begone. [Dimension door away.]" 7 Response to a). [CHARNAME] - And what´s this "fee"? 8 Response to a). Harper - 17.000 golden lions, and, a few tasks. 9 d), Resonse to a). [CHARNAME] - 17.000! That is quite alot, but i may be able to manage it. e), Response to a). [CHARNAME] - That is too much for me. f), Response to a). [CHARNAME] - I see, and what are these, "tasks"? I havnt come op with anything else, but basicly, if you accept, it would lead to a few neutral good/evil tasks, paying their fee, and some cool dialouge with Jaheira if she would be in your party. So, what do you think? [ 12-01-2004, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Mystique ] |
<font color=plum>VERY COOL IDEA!!! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
Only problem is that you would still have to tie the Harper Journey into the Sauhagin and Underdark portions of the game. Of course, I suppose you could have the Sauhagin attack the Harper boat just as easily as they did the pirate's ship. I DO like the idea of having a Neutral option available to get the PC to Spellhold. It would be nice if a Good option existed too - perhaps by approaching the Order of the Radiant Heart. I'm no good at programming, but I'll try to offer some suggestions as to what "tasks" might be appropriate for the Harper's to request.</font> |
There's no reason you can't just link it to Saemon's boat. Saemon's neutral, so I don't see why you just can't do that. At least the betrayal at the docks would make sense then.
I agree with the idea of using the harpers...who are more good than neutral (hey, they go around hunting EVIL dragons). Also, there needs to be an alternate way to deal with Rayic Gethras. You need to be able to convince him (using Int or Chr) to just leave Edwin alone. You could accomplish this by threatening him, bribing him, or simply convincing him that Edwin isn't worth the time. This would let you avoid killing him, and the Virtue hit. |
Aside from the Harpers, a fourth party could also be the Cowled Wizards.
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I remember Six talking about how this would be a good idea, and I completely agree. The only problem is finding someone who knows how to *do* it with enough time to do it. I'd do it myself if I knew how.
Unfortunately, I just know how to make items and spells, and write good dialogue. But if there's anyone who knows more... |
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Well that's nice...I'm expecting that it will involve a bribe.
Anyway, the Cowled Wizards wouldn't want to *help* the PC. They wouldn't want the PC anywhere NEAR spellhold. Heck, they would try to STOP the PC. But yeah, need harper alternative. |
The Radiant Heart might be a choice for a "good" alternative to the thieves or vamps, although the fact that they are also lawful complicates things -- the CW are operating within the law, after all, and for all we know the RH might agree that "deviants" should be confined to Spellhold.
I like the Harper idea, but it does have the problem of conflicting with the existing Harper storyline. The boss Harper of Athkatla, after all, wants to use the character for his own purposes, so it is hard to think he'd also turn around and help the character. But some form of third alternative would be welcome -- as my sig says, I'm all for it. [img]smile.gif[/img] Come to think of it, the Harper alternative could combine with the existing storyline without a conflict: just have the character betrayed by the Harpers instead of having them keep up their end of the bargain. After the character whacks the boss, he could find some means of bribing/blackmailing Saimon to take him to Spellhold. Needs work, but it might do. -- Mal [ 12-01-2004, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: Malthaussen ] |
<span style="color: lightblue">There are atleast two mods which aim to do a similar thing to this. ThirdWay (see the link in my signature), and one by khayman. Unfortunately, it slips my mind where Khayman's is hosted, and what it is called. I've no doubt that someone will aid my memory soon. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Anyway, both are currently idle (Khayman's was last I checked, anyway. That could since have changed), but Andrewas and I have been considering a few things that should help breath some life back into Limbo and the work we seek to do. [img]smile.gif[/img] EDIT: Deleted accidental almost-duplicate... [ 12-02-2004, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: LennonCook ] |
Yeah I am quite sure the cowled wizards wouldnt want you there. Unless they needed your help to take out jonny, but that would make the whole scene with jonny showing you all inmates totally ridiculous.
I like the Harper idea and maybe you can get them to fight Bodhi in chapter 6 which is real cool. On the other hand, Jaheira's quests will be affected, so unless you can think of a way to get everything to blend together...... |
Time to throw some cold water on this idea..
The whole which evil do I choose, the evil I know or the evil I don't is one of the best part's of the game, your basicaly going out to defy the law and breakout a criminal (oh yes you are) The question is, do the end's justfy the means? The great part is you know your dealing with shady types, will you continue to deal with them to save your sibbling or will you leave her to her fate, dance with the devil and your gonna get burned. If the harpers where added as a choice for getting to spellhold it'd be best to link it via Jaheira rather than a new NPC that jump's in with an offer out of the blue, tag it on at the end of her personal quest, or as part of it, use benard or maybe hendak as a contact then you could tie in extra gameplay elements like an anti slaver quest which links to vampires feeding off slaves and so on.. [ 12-05-2004, 06:12 AM: Message edited by: Q'alooaith ] |
Well, lets see...
Shadow Thieves are using you to get to Irenicus. Bodhi is luring you to Spellhold so Jonny can steal your soul. So we need a group that GENUINELY tries to help you. A.k.a. harpers. The harpers may get you to do a few things for them, but they do keep their end of the bargain, and would help you. Harpers would NOT betray you. They might not tell you the whole truth, but they won't betray you. As an example, lets take stock of Harper members: Elm Khelben Gorion Jaheira Khalid Out of those, only Jaheira is Neutral, the rest are good. |
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Why would the cowled wizards let you go to their super secret prison with all these super dangerous people?
O_o |
"Harpers would not betray you."
Bunk. You're generalizing from specifics, and running contrary to things that can actually happen in the game. To say more would spoil the plot. At any rate, I'm hardly wedded to the idea of the Harpers shafting the player, but something would have to be done to reconcile the existing plot with the suggested mod. -- Mal |
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How about the Cowled Wizards loose contact with the Island and because you know both the new inmates they send you to investigate
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The PC knows that Imoen has been wrongly imprisoned BY the Cowled Wizards. Under normal circumstances, I would agree 100% with <font color=yellow>Riftmaker</font> that they absolutely would NOT want the PC and his/her party anywhere NEAR their private little Spellhold. However, <font color=deepskyblue>T-D-C</font> (along with others) DO have a point that the Cowled Wizards would be "concerned" about the events transpiring at Spellhold, and I can certainly picture them sending the PC to investigate rather than placing themselves in harm's way. As for the Harper tie-in. As the game stands now, the leader of the Harpers is out to capture the PC and/or imprison him/her because of their Slayer abilities. If you have Jaheira in the party, this leads to an inevitable confrontation in which you have to defend yourself against the leader and several members of the Harpers. The PC doesn't suffer any repurcussions for his actions - however - because Jaheira and the rest of the Harpers realize this guy was following an unsanctioned personal agenda. So the replacement leader could offer passage to Spellhold as a way to compensate the PC for the trouble he/she endured at the hands of the former leader. They could still require a few tasks to be completed by the PC first and could then offer passage for free (or they could say the standard fee is still necessary in order to bribe the proper people to secure passage). I admit my memory of the whole Harper Interaction is a bit fuzzy and may not be completely accurate. It also may be completely different if Jaheira isn't in the party. I'm just recalling events as best as I remember them.</font> |
Heyas everyone
Heres my thoughts: Harpers: If you do Jaheira's quests then the leader of the Harpers (or what seems to be the leader in Athkatla) tries to 'dispose' of you anyway right? Because of the taint within. So, They could offer you the passage to Spellhold in the hope that you will 'die' for lack of a better term. That could solve one problem no? Or, for the boat ride back, Saemon could be hired on the pretense that you (the PC) will be captured by the Gith which is another way of 'disposing' of you, without the Harpers getting the blame. Either way, your life will be put on the line, causing a threat to the taint. Cowled Wizards: It turns out that Irenicus takes over Spellhold anyway, and logic dictates that the Cowled ones would want it back no? As is usually the case with the Cowled Wizards, they dont want to do the dirty work (Tolgerias and Valygar) so wouldnt have a problem getting you to solve their problems rather than put themselves in harms way. I mean, why would they care if you lived or died? They would just recruit the next lacky to try get Spellhold back, the only thing is, you are perfect because you have incentive to go their anyway. I dont know whether these are good or not, its just what my thoughts are. Thanks alot --Kestrel-- |
To their knowledge, two people who had been involved in a major disturbance are now wreaking some serious havoc in Spellhold. Presumably the worst thing the Cowled Wizards can do is send along yet another person who was involved in said disturbance.
[ 12-03-2004, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: SimDing0 ] |
The problem with embedding a "Harper" path to Spellhold into the Jahiera plot is that it takes a long while for Jahiera's Harper plot to play thru. There's really no way to just force the issue and leave for Spellhold ASAP as there is with the Shadow Thieves and (I assume) the vampires.
It would be nice to have a Harper path that was more similar to the other two paths, such that you could talk to them and, after jumping thru a few hoops, they'd help you get to spellhold. I don't see any need for the Harpers to betray you. Perhaps they just set up a boatride with Saemon and you let the betrayal continue as normal. A MAJOR problem with a Harper path would be how to incorporate it with the Jahiera harper plotline. Heck, I think that it's arguable that whether you have Jahiera with you or not, the Harpers don't think too well of the PC. They may not really be willing to help you at all. After all, you are a Bhaalspawn. OTOH... Hmmm... (free thinking here...) Perhaps the "bad" Harpers would be very willing to "help" you. Perhaps they would be very willing to help you get to Spellhold, because they've secretly made a deal with Irenicus and aren't all that nice at all. Having said this, this idea does seem to be a bit in conflict with the Jahiera Harper plot. After all, would you willingly trust "Harpers" who just tried to imprison you? If not for the Jahiera Harper plot, I could see these "bad" Harpers doing this sort of betrayal. It would be nice to have a truly "good" path for getting to Spellhold. I just played a NG Swashbuckler thru SoA and ToB. So going the path of the Shadow Thieves was just fine for my PC. But it would be nice to have a Good path for a more goody-two-shoes sort of PC. I agree that it might be a bit of a conflict for the Order of the Radiant Heart to fill this role. Perhaps, the Clerics of Lathander could help out here? |
Question, how would the Cowled wizards know something was wrong? Jonny is powerful enough to take it over, and nobody else would have a clue. I doubt anyone outside of Spellhold would even know something changed. The residents of Brynnlaw certainly didn't.
Simple answer to a simple problem. Attach the harper path to the current harper quest somehow. After you do the whole assassin thing, they could offer you a way to Spellhold if you do some things for them. The fee would be the same of course, 15,000 gp. |
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It is true that they have their own agenda that they pursue and they aren't shy about "using" adventurers to help achieve these goals. Because of this secretive nature, they are often viewed with a great deal of mistrust by commoners and even some adventurers (since the Harper asking for help rarely gives full details - they seem to especially "forget" to mention some of the more dire dangers that may be involved in the adventure). But they still work for the cause of "Good" more often than not. While it isn't unheard of, it most definitely is the exception to have "bad" Harpers. Anyway, it is made very clear that the Harper "leader" in BG2 is considered a "rogue" by the rest of the group after his attempt to "dispose" of the PC. Also, the Harpers wouldn't be likely to make a "deal" with someone like Irenicus (or anybody else for that matter). They will certainly "use" people for thier own purposes, but it would be rare for them to actually make a formal agreement or arrangement with someone like Irenicus. Also, one other problem mentioned is the time necessary for Jaheira's plot to play out. Many players like to get to Spellhold as quickly as possible. They do just enough quests to get the $15,000gp needed for the trip and leave ALL the other quests (including most stronghold quests) until AFTER they return from rescueing their sister. However, this could still work with the current "rogue" leader of the Harpers. He might see this as a chance to get rid of the Bhaalspawn. Once you return safely from Spellhold (MUCH to his disappointment), the rest of the Harper plot could continue as normal.</font> |
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The suggestion about involving the clerics of Lathandar is also good, though you would need to come up with an explanation of how it would benefit the church. The Order would benefit because the PC is either a future member of their ranks (paladin or kit) OR they are attempting to fight the corrupt Cowled Wizards. The second reasoning is less solid, but is at least feasible. Of course, the clerics could realize just HOW corrupt the Wizards are and also realize that Imoen was wrongfully imprisoned. It's also possible they would be concerned about their divination spells being unable to penetrate the defenses around Spellhold. Since it is concievable that even their own brethren could end up being sent there, it is reasonable to assume they would want to be able to "monitor" the events at Spellhold to see just how the prisoners are treated there. I like the idea of using the clerics for something OTHER than being sent to kill beholders and have a statue built. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] </font> |
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Another option could be that one of the Cowled Wizards got away. Irenicus may have taken over, but we don't know if he slaughtered every last one of the Cowled Wizards (CW). For all we know, the two CW's that were killed (I thought they were murdered anyway) in the "I cannot be caged, I cannot be controlled. Know that as you die, ever pathetic, ever fools"-scene were the only ones to die by the hands of our favorite evil archmage. If the Cowled Wizards were informed Spellhold was lost to them, they wouldn't be itchy to reconquer the place themselves. We know for a fact that they are afraid of Irenicus' powers ("This mage's power's immense!" "He took down four of us before we could contain him!"), so it would be pretty plausible to assume they are eager to throw in someone else in order to save their own hides. Your thoughts? [ 12-09-2004, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Link ] |
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It is true that they have their own agenda that they pursue and they aren't shy about "using" adventurers to help achieve these goals. Because of this secretive nature, they are often viewed with a great deal of mistrust by commoners and even some adventurers (since the Harper asking for help rarely gives full details - they seem to especially "forget" to mention some of the more dire dangers that may be involved in the adventure). But they still work for the cause of "Good" more often than not. While it isn't unheard of, it most definitely is the exception to have "bad" Harpers. Anyway, it is made very clear that the Harper "leader" in BG2 is considered a "rogue" by the rest of the group after his attempt to "dispose" of the PC. Also, the Harpers wouldn't be likely to make a "deal" with someone like Irenicus (or anybody else for that matter). They will certainly "use" people for thier own purposes, but it would be rare for them to actually make a formal agreement or arrangement with someone like Irenicus. Also, one other problem mentioned is the time necessary for Jaheira's plot to play out. Many players like to get to Spellhold as quickly as possible. They do just enough quests to get the $15,000gp needed for the trip and leave ALL the other quests (including most stronghold quests) until AFTER they return from rescueing their sister. However, this could still work with the current "rogue" leader of the Harpers. He might see this as a chance to get rid of the Bhaalspawn. Once you return safely from Spellhold (MUCH to his disappointment), the rest of the Harper plot could continue as normal.</font> </font>[/QUOTE]Cerek, when I discussed using the "bad" harpers, I *was* talking about the rogue Harpers in the Jahiera plot. I understand that the true harpers would probably not deal with Irenicus, etc. That's why I was only talking about the rogue harper. If this guy was willing to try to Imprison the PC, I could also see him trying to set up the PC by trying to get him/her sent to Spellhold. I agree that some players like to go to Spellhold ASAP. That's why any "good" option would need to have a way to fulfill any requirements of the "good" organization that's willing to help. BTW, one downside of having the rogue harpers is that they wouldn't be a truly Good option. Just another evil (or neutral at best) option. |
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The suggestion about involving the clerics of Lathandar is also good, though you would need to come up with an explanation of how it would benefit the church. The Order would benefit because the PC is either a future member of their ranks (paladin or kit) OR they are attempting to fight the corrupt Cowled Wizards. The second reasoning is less solid, but is at least feasible. Of course, the clerics could realize just HOW corrupt the Wizards are and also realize that Imoen was wrongfully imprisoned. It's also possible they would be concerned about their divination spells being unable to penetrate the defenses around Spellhold. Since it is concievable that even their own brethren could end up being sent there, it is reasonable to assume they would want to be able to "monitor" the events at Spellhold to see just how the prisoners are treated there. I like the idea of using the clerics for something OTHER than being sent to kill beholders and have a statue built. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] </font> </font>[/QUOTE]I suppose that the Lathanderites could actually be fully aware of the corruptness of the Cowled Wizards, but have had no way to confront them or no legit reason. Perhaps the kidnapping of Imeon would provide them with a reason. The Clerics might see the PC and his party as a good means of getting a group over to Brynnlaw and to scope out Spellhold. The question might be how do they actually *get* to Brynnlaw. I suppose the simplest way would be for the clerics to simply make a deal with Saemon Havarian and let the plot procede from there. The clerics wouldn't be any more responsible for betraying the PC than Aran Linvail. Actually, the next questions to be asked would be how and where would the Clerics come into contact with the PC. And then, what tasks would the PC need to do for the Clerics before they set up the little boat ride to Brynnlaw? (And what would the justification for those tasks be?) |
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Another option could be that one of the Cowled Wizards got away. Irenicus may have taken over, but we don't know if he slaughtered every last one of the Cowled Wizards (CW). For all we know, the two CW's that were killed (I thought they were murdered anyway) in the "I cannot be caged, I cannot be controlled. Know that as you die, ever pathetic, ever fools"-scene were the only ones to die by the hands of our favorite evil archmage. If the Cowled Wizards were informed Spellhold was lost to them, they wouldn't be itchy to reconquer the place. We know for a fact that they are afraid of Irenicus' powers ("This mage's power's immense!" "He took down four of us before we could contain him!"), so it would be pretty plausible to assume they are hesitant to throw in someone else in order to save their own hides. Your thoughts? </font>[/QUOTE]Link, I can see this being a fairly legit justification for the Cowled Wizzies looking for help. However, there would be some potential conflicts. I think that you would absolutely have to buy the magic license or absolutely avoid killing any CW's. I cannot see the CW's being willing to help a party that kills CW's on the streets of Athkatla. Also, I think that you might have to find a way to justify not killing Valygar. I suppose that you could get around killing the CW's in the Planar Sphere by saying that what happens in the Planar Sphere, stays in the Planar Sphere, if you know what I mean. ;) But if you actually had Valygar in your party when you were trying to deal with these CW's, this might cause a serious problem. The CW's might refuse to help you. They might even attack you. Also, where would the CW's HQ be? At "City Hall"? Perhaps, but not a good place if you wanted to allow for the CW's to get PO'd at you for having Valygar in the group and attack. Otherwise, City Hall would probably work, since the CW's seem to sort of run Athkatla. The thing is, the CW's are hardly a Good option. They are, perhaps, more of a Lawful Nuetral option. |
Magness: I'm not sure what the quests might be, but they could end up the same place the ST quests do, no? Raiding the compound is a very Lathander-esque thing to do. Take the dungeon by force... Throw open the doors, that the light of Lathander might burn the darkness within.
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Okay...the whole point is, we are looking for a GOOD alternative to the Shadow Thieves and Bodhi. We are not discussing random alternatives, we are looking for a GOOD aligned one.
Paladins: Would not help you. This would interfere with the law of Athkala. That's against what the Order stands for. Cowled Wizards: Not a GOOD aligned alternative. These guys are Lawful Neutral at best. Definitely NOT good. Rogue Harpers: Again, not a GOOD aligned alternative. Forget them completely. Real Harpers: Definitely a GOOD aligned alternative. Because Harpers often don't act within the bounds of the law, they would make a perfect GOOD alternative. Hell, I can even see an appearance by Elm in there. Lathanderites: They are mostly concerned with destroying evil / undead and promoting Lathander. I doubt they even know Jonny exists. Besides, they wouldn't interfere with the CW's policing of magic. They are LAWFUL after all. |
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As for the Lathander peoples... They're not lawful, they're true (neutral) good. That means that they'd be more concerned with the evil of the Cowled Ones than the fact that they're the law of the land. |
Wow, er, so people liked my idea?
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Not sure that I agree with your assessment of the Clerics. For one, I agree with Illumina's assessment of the clerics. But also, I do not think that the clerics have to know anything about Irenicus. I think that all they'd really need to know is that Imeon's been kidnapped by the Cowled Wizards. If the Lathanderites have a problem with the CW's, then Imoen's kidnapping should be sufficient justification for them to help the PC, particularly if the PC is going to do a little bit of work for them (i.e. the preliminary tasks before arranging the boat ride to Brynnlaw). The problem with the Real Harpers is that it would seem to me that their presense in Athkatla would conflict with rogue harper plot. If Jahiera knew that there were "real" Harpers in the city, she could run to them immediately and ask for help with the rogue harpers. |
Still, Lathanderites aren't really concerned with much beyond killing undead and promoting good. Besides, there is no indication that the Lathanderites have any quarrel with the CW's (AFAIK), and even if there were, I doubt they would interfere in the CW's jurisdiction. Heck, Athkala probably has laws against that.
I still say Real Harpers are the best bet. Note, I haven't played Jaheira's sub-plot(s) at all, so I don't know the story. |
<font color=plum>Well, <font color=yellow>Riftmaker</font>, I have to disagree that the Order and the Lathanderites would refuse to help because they are "Lawful" and the C.W.'s are the "lawful representatives".
I agree it would take exceptional circumstances for them to go against the Cowled Wizards...but the PC brings these circumstances in abundance. First of all, it is no secret that the Cowled Wizards are corrupt. The demand a "license fee" that is nothing more than a transparant bribe. One of their members sends the PC after a Ranger - supposedly for crimes against the C.W.'s. However, once you actually meet Valygar, he explains that his actions were self-defense and that the C.W.'s attacked HIM in an attempt to FORCE him to grant them entry into the Planar Sphere. The C.W.'s make no secret of the fact that they are perfectly happy for the PC to kill Valygar if necessary. So the PC is basically being contracted for a sanctioned murder against a good-aligned character. Finally, there is the wrongful imprisonment of Imoen herself. Not to mention the fact that if the PC casts even the most basic and non-threatening spell (such as Stoneskin - which doesn't endanger ANY innocent bystanders), a whole GROUP of C.W.'s will show up and attack the PC and his/her group with full magical force - and they have no concern for any innocents that may get caught in the crossfire. Upon returning from Umar Hills, the PC could take Valygar to the Order to present his side of the case to them. The PC could then point out that they aren't asking the Order to confront the C.W.'s directly - all they are asking is that the Order provide a way for the PC and his group to travel to Spellhold so that they can investigate the situation and rescue Imoen on their own. While it IS "unlawful" to support helping a prisoner escape from prison, there is ample cause to believe Imoen was wrongfully imprisoned to begin with...and the C.W.'s don't have any "parole board" for her or the PC to appeal to. In this case, the Order would almost be "honor bound" to help if they could - without violating the laws of Athkatla. But even so, it is quite evident that they would be serving the "greater good" by aiding the PC in this particular instance. Note that I'm not saying the Paladins will automatically believe the PC. They would have to meet several requirements. For starters, the PC (and most of the group) would HAVE to be of good alignment. Second, they would have to take Valygar to present his evidence of the C.W.'s corrupt and malicous nature. And it would be stressed that any "aid" they give will be strictly "behind the scenes".</font> |
The desire for a Good-aligned path through Chapter 3 is anything but new, it's been around since the first Paladin got frustrated at being made to choose between Thieves and Vampires. The ins and outs of the various groups that might help you (some part of the original game, some discussed in this thread and earlier, some decanted from my own little demented head) are as follows:
Shadow Thieves: Irenicus betrayed them in some fashion, they want him dead. Bodhi's declared war on them, they want her dead too. Might as well get a professional adventurer (who in all likelihood has their own beef with Irenicus, and wants to go to Spellhold anyway) to rub both of them out. Bodhi: Why she's playing for piddling stakes like the Athkatla underworld, when the real prize at stake here is the soul of a Bhaalspawn, is beyond me. But yeah, she has to make sure the PC gets to Spellhold safe and sound, so she'll help you, all right. But she'll get her money's worth out of you first. Cowled Wizards: The key here is recognizing that the Cowled order is currently undergoing a MAJOR schism in their ranks, with a majority of younger, Neutral Evil types nabbing power from the established Lawful Neutral leaders. Hence the shift from the 'true' CWs ("Okay, you passed the intelligence test, the psychoanalysis, and the marksmanship trials, welcome to the ranks of responsible spellcasters,") to the 'new' CWs ("We don't give a flying fart who gets Fireballed in the Government District, as long as we can extort a hefty bribe from everyone"). Therefore, the path to Spellhold through the CWs involves choosing a side, destroying the opposition, then opening and clearing out the Planar Sphere. For this service, the CWs will Dimension door you right to Byrnnlaw, and help you get this Irenicus--who they have just learned has escaped--under control once again. Harpers: To avoid Jaheira difficulties, these quests must be completely independent of her, and also be over rather quickly. They have long suspected that the Copper Coronet was harboring slave activity, and last week they got confirmation from their plant there (Bernard). They want you to bust up the slave business there, and track down where the slaves are coming from. On Captain Heagan's corpse is a register of delivered slaves, which also mentions the Guarded Compound in the Temple District. Upon reporting this to Berinvar (who runs the Galvarey Estate when Galvarey's not around), you are instructed to attack the Guarded Compound and capture or kill the Slave Lords there. Most Noble Order of the Radiant Heart: Will not help you. While it is true that the Cowls show no inclination towards Good, and it seems that every third-class group of Bandits has purchased a license (and can therefore do pretty much whatever they want), the Cowled Wizards are a perfectly legitimate organization supported in every level of Amnish government. The only reason they might aid you is your claim that Imoen was unaware of the spellcasting ban, and was likely deported without a trial. This might give the Order cause to investigate the location of this Asylum for the Magically Deviant, but they won't provide material assistance towards getting you there. Major Athkatla Churches: Also will not help you. Lathander has no beef against a Neutral organization that has nothing to do with Undead (although individual Clerics might take a stand against Spellhold, as it represents stagnation), Helm would be against the Cowls only as far as the way they might treat spellcasters unfairly (making the Temple of Helm take roughly the same line as the Order of the Radiant Heart), and Talos gets along with the Cowls just fine. Besides, as Clerics, what do they care about Wizards having to pay money in order to cast spells? Zhentarim: A few moments after Xzar is assassinated, a Monk named Lafcadio comes up to you and says he has an interesting and profitable job for you--but he won't tell you what it is if Jaheira is nearby. If you wish, you can accompany him back to Prebek's home, where he asks you to re-enter the Harper Hold and bring back the real Montaron this time. You have the option of either A) Killing him right off, B) Telling the Harpers about him, or C) accepting his quest. If you take C, Lafcadio introduces you to a Sorceress named Hexerei, and you all go stand outside the Harper Hold. At this point, Jaheira demands to know what is going on, and it is impossible to keep her in the party any further if you wish to continue (she goes to her usual location, outside the door to the Galvarey Estate). Hexerei casts Mass Dimension Door, taking herself and the entire party to the roof of the Harper Hold. From here, you descend to the 2nd floor (killing the Spectral Harpists if necessary), retrieve Montaron's body, and take it back to Hexerei. She Mass Dimension Doors you back down to ground level, and a party of hostile Cowled Enforcers appear. Thanks to his Magic Resistance and quick running speed, Lafcadio lures the Wizards away, leaving you and Hexerei with Montaron. She casts a powerful form of Negative Plane Protection on him, so that during the next hour, a simple Raise dead should bring him back to live. She tells you to go get him Raised, and bring him to Prebek's home when you're done. She then runs off, to avoid summoning any more Cowls. You bring Monty back to life at the Temple of Oghma, and then Lafcadio says he has some more jobs for you: While Montaron is helping steal a valuable artifact from the Order of the Radiant Heart (good luck getting Keldorn to go along with this), you are asked to weaken the Harpers from within, by recruiting Jaheira and planting the Shazellim scimitar on her, then framing her for some unsavory crime. Once this task is completed (leaving Jaheira dead), Lafcadio wants you to investigate the Graveyard District: It seems that a powerful sword, called Namarra, has been entombed there--it once belonged to the Zhentarim, and they'd like to have it back. Your final task is to stage a direct assault on the Galverey Estate and kill everyone in it. Wizard Slayers' Guild: You can start on this path by talking to Hoskins, a rather angry man who appears just as you leave Irenicus's dungeon. He is furious about the amount of damage done to Waukeen's Promenade, and starts to blame the PC for contributing to it--when you calm him down, he admits it was all Irenicus's fault--even the girl that the Cowls took away hardly did anything. You can press him on this, and he will admit that he's hated wizards ever since one killed his wife....and he'll suggest that if you really want to get back at Irenicus, you should speak to a man named Lord Ketlaar Argrim, in the Council of Six building in the Government District. Argrim will test you first, and then tell you about a secret door, concealed inside a building in the Goverment District; the one near the SW corner of the map, with a man's face on either side of the door. Now that he's told you where to look for the door, you can enter the Wizard Slayers' Guild. Except for the anteroom, all areas inside the Guild are Dead Magic Zones. The WSG is willing to discover the location of the Asylum if you help to break the stranglehold that the Cowled Wizard have on the city: The very WORST people to judge competent spellcasting would be fellow spellcasters. It is the Wizard Slayers, not the Cowls, who should be patrolling Athkatla. To this end, they want you to do everything you can to contain and/or destroy dangerous spellcasters. Your first mission is to investigate the goings-on in Waukeen's Promenade: They've heard something about a mysterious and quite probably deadly transformation of a circus there. Next is to bait out the Cowled Wizards, and kill them. Lastly, you are ordered to find some way of getting the Planar Sphere back where it came from--or at least out of Athkatla. Since this might well mean taking it to another Plane, and you'd really rather not get stuck there, the WSG gives you a powerful homing artifact that can transport you from plane to plane--but not from one point to another within planes. (This device can also bring the Solamnic Knights along, if you use it in the right place.) |
See, I told you I was right about the churches. Yeesh.
Also, the Imprisonment of Imoen IS LAWFUL. It is against the law to use wizard's magic in Athkala without a 'liscence'. She broke that law, she was punished, along with Jonny. As to why Bodhi is kicking around in Athkala is probably because Jonny wanted her to. Being his lackey and all. |
Quote:
Still, I'll concede that her arrest IS "Lawful" if she cast any spells in defense against Johnny. <font color=silver>SixOfSpades</font> - Thanks for the rundown on the various paths that had been discussed previously. I personally like the idea of the Wizard Slayer group the best - but then I'm partial to that kit anyway. Still, it makes a LOT more sense that a group of Wizard Slayers would want to see the C.W.'s removed from power. Are there any Mods out there that actually explore or develop these various alternatives?</font> |
She casts a Magic Missile spell. Then the CWs show up.
|
Yeah, its goes something like...
Irenicus: "You can't leave, not when im so close to unlocking your power!" Imoen: "We dont want anything from you" *casts magic missile* *Cowled Wizards teleport in* Or something to that effect --Kestrel-- [ 12-05-2004, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Kestrel Daystar ] |
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