Ok here goes...........

1)Where can i find all the parts for the wave blade(halberd)? I got it before in a previous game but just cant seem to remember now.

2)Do monks cap at +3 fists or is there some way to get to +4 or 5?(needed to hit certain enemies)

3)Do jesters suck, or is it just me?

4)Between a fighter/thief or a kensai->thief and an assasin(thief subclass), who does more backstab damage? Cause kensai->thief has grandmastery in weapons while an assasin only has proficiency. I once did 200+ damage wif my kensai->thief(critical hit) so do you think an assasin can ever reach that high, even wif the x7 multiplier?

5)Isnt Yoshimo's snares a form of cheating? I've used them to kill(not in any preference, order and by no means exhaustible) greater wolfweres, dragons, mages(Cowled wizards who appear after you cast a spell), war parties, jonny boy, Marissan, numerous monsters and all the time i am jus thinking, hey shouldnt you poor buggers look a bit worried when i start planting like 8 snares around you, even if i have the shadow dragon wardstone and that makes you not attack me...........

6)I wld like to add a mod or two for my next game of bg2. What is your most fav, must-have mod and why? Pls dun write down all of them, even if you have a lot of mods you like.........

7)Does anyone use a spear for valgyar? I just find the +10 piercing damage spear so cool that i dont give him anything else......This isnt a very gd question i think but just humour me pls.

I guess thats all for now. I might have one or two questions that slipped my mind so ill add on later

Spoilers ahoy...


1) The most-often overlooked piece of the Wave is found on Prince Villynatty (sic?) in the City of Caverns. I don't usually get it because I usually take his side.

3) It's not just you.

5) People often complain about this, and it's true. Sadly, in this case gamers just have to police themselves. Not in the final battles (as you know what's coming), but in dragon battles and such.

6) I really like Tactics... but I've soloed on Insane difficulty. I don't know how long you've been playing, but know it's not for the beginner.

7) No, but I gave that spear to Jahiera and it worked rather well.

the piercing spear is very cool indeed and my 'lone hunter' character (solo archer) used very little else once she'd found it

(PS: as i understand it if you have SoA without ToB then Valygar can backstab with spears . . . ;)

1) Underwater City (depending on which way you do the quest), and Planar Prison.

2) Monks' fists become +4 enchanted at Level 25, or so I hear.

3) ALL Bards suck. Some people persist in believing that they can fight, but I do my part to dispel this fallacy.

4) Assassin->Fighter has the highest possible Backstab damage, unless you take a specific NPC into account.

5) Abusing Traps like that is not cheating, it's cheese. It's breaking the roleplay and pretending that Firkraag isn't smart enough to notice that you're littering his floor with Traps. (Now, Golems are dumb enough to fall for this, bu that's pretty much it.)

6) Unfinished Business, Kelsey, Rogue Rebalancing, Enhanced Thief Stronghold, and certain components of Tactics, Ease-of-Use, and Item Upgrades.

7) Spear + Longbow is a very nice combo for Valygar, since he's already got points in both, he's a damn good sniper, and it's good to keep him a Spear's length away from the enemy.

Bards do NOT suck. Well, in BG2, they do. But in IWD and IWD2, they rock, and in PnP, they rock. I heard somewhere about a mod introducing the IWD bard perks in BG2, but can't seem to find any more information about it. Anyone know? (Icelus?)

Must plug the Gibberlings Three and the PPG. They make good mods for roleplaying characters.

The blade has the potential to be an exceptional fighter (with enough patience and nurturing), thanks to decent dual wielding and spell buffing.

The Skald is redundant with ToB, and the standard Bard is too weak offensively. The Jester on the other hand is a great kit to play. Greater Malison + Invisibility + Bard song = fun fun fun.

Only with one very specific weapon (well, two I guess, both staves), and that's due to its immense base damage. Using any other weapon, the kensai->thief will come out on top afaik.

The highest theoretical damage an assassin can do on a critical backstab (dualled from fighter) is 466 (or there abouts). One particular NPC Six hinted at can beat that though ;) A pure assassin could probably manage around 320+. From your list though, the kensai->thief would own them all (if dualled at the optimum level).

[ 10-19-2004, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Jim ]

And the Swashbuckler has the potential to be an even better fighter, thanks to the fact that he doesn't NEED spells (or even UAI) to get almost-decent combat stats. A Blade will always beat a Swashbuckler in a duel, but in the game itself, a Swashbuckler is much more valuable.
Hell, even Nalia has "decent dual-wielding and spell buffing," as you call it.

This is weird but ill answer some of my own questions and ask a few more......

3)Supposedly with the latest ToB patch Jesters actually can do more than confuse, now theres stun and slow at level 20, which sounds kinda cool. Has anyone tried it?

2)Well the kid description for monk doesnt say anything about a +4 fist at level 25. Perhaps theres a mod which changes this?

1)Ok Prince Villy is now lying in pieces in Sahaugin city. So I have 1 part of the wave and trying to figure out who to kill to get the next one. Help?

6)Not trying to be a wimp or anything but Tactics sounds really hard from the description given. I took Ascension instead, because it seemed a little easier at that time. Hopefully it works out cos i hate being a punching bag.

Extra questions!

8) Has anyone managed to successfully complete Imoen's romance? It seems that the campfire conversation is very important and after that she hasnt spoken to me for like 5,6 real hours. I am guessing thats bad. A few hints would be great, even one or two spoilers as long as i keep the romance going.

9)Does frame rate affect the speed in which conversations start? As in the frame rate in the baldur.ini file. Supposedly if i double the frame rate would the time waiting for conversations be halved?

Thanks a bunch

item spoilers can be easily found here . . .

http://www.flatface.net/~itemsmart/magic_items_menu.htm

Tactics is cool by whe way - so far (early days though) I've only found improved Illyich to be the stupidly powerful (many many reloads required) but you can choose which bits you install - the tweaked mages and improved undead are definitely worth it

Yes, the Swashbuckler will eventually become a superior fighter - there's no disputing that, but I'm not sure that the Swashbuckler is more valuable in the game. What does the Swashbuckler have over the Blade versatility wise? AC, damage and to hit bonuses? Great....except for Offensive/Defensive spins of the Blade which essentially nullify the swashbucklers' advantage here. As the swashbuckler grows in power, the combat/AC bonuses will eventually overtake the Blade's spin abilities, but being able to use Blur/Mirror Image/Stoneskin/Tensors Transform combined with some powerful chain armour always had more more use for me. Then there's the summons, but that's only really advantageous when considering soloing.

As for Nalia, she has the spell buffing yes, but dual wielding? Amazingly bad THAC0 combined with penalties from only being able to use 1* in Two Weapon Style? Even with significant spell buffing she isn't going to be hitting much anytime soon.

That's the Rogue Rebalancing mod that does that, not ToB. ToB simply adds the HLA of Enhanced Bard Song, which allows all Bards (including the Jester) to change their Song into that of a high-level Skald.

I've never played a Monk, but the table I put together (from many reputable sources) states a +4 enchantment at Level 25. That's a ToB addition, you see, and the Kit Descriptions commonly only include details relevant to SoA levels.

I already told you this.

Tactics increases the difficulty (often to ludicrous levels), yes. That's what it's for. The added challenge makes things more interesting and, hopefully, fun. It is NOT for anyone who is relatively new to the game.


Well, versatility-wise, the Swashbuckler has the advantage of being able to get the party through Watcher's Keep and the Marching Mountains in one piece, and sneak around at a moment's notice, instead of just being a poor substitute for a Warrior. The Blade, on the other hand, can, umm....mumble a tune that does essentially nothing, and cast a few low-level spells.

This is not even counting UAI. Once UAI is called into play, then the Swashbuckler is pretty much immune to any physical attacks that don't come from people like Abazigal, and makes the Swashbuckler able to match the Blade spell for spell. There's also the fact that the Swashbuckler's THAC0 also applies to missile weapons, making him a better archer than a Blade (or Sharpshooter kit from G3) could ever be.

Ahem. Mirror Image + PfMW + Improved Haste.
Staff of the Magi.
Time Stop.
Whack.
Belm + Kundane.
Another Time Stop.
Dead Pontifex.
Total party hitpoint loss: 0
You were saying?

A Blade could do this, true, but only by using Vhailor's Helm.

But a blade still COULD. I have to say, i solo'd a blade and became a real nasty figher.Then wehn you chuck a few spells around you're unstoppable.Meh, i'll always love the blade.

Right. The Wave Blade pieces can be found:

i) If you save Haer'dalis (A very good bard) from Mekrath then go to the playhouse in the Bridge District, the actors there will perform a spell which opens a portal to another plane. That plane is a prison where the actors are now held in. In that prison there is a cambion called the Warden. If you kill him you will find the shaft to the Wave Blade on his body.

ii) Later on in the game, you will come to the Sanguin City. After you go through that storyline you have to side with the king (or kill the prince after you help him if your evil). You will do some wuests and then have to murder the prince. As far as I know it is the prince with the Blade to the weapon so take it of his dead body.

That should do the trick. When you get back to Athkatla, go to Cromwell and he will assemble the Blade [img]smile.gif[/img]

Your post has merit, but everything you've suggested a Blade can do too. Traps can be disarmed via Mirror Image / stoneskin and locks opened via knock. Sneeking around at a moments notice? A single level 2 spell will grant much longer invisibility without needing skill point checks each round that will always fail if an enemy is on screen. It seems to me that you are trying to put the Blade down because they do not excel in any one area - moderate warrior skills and moderate spellcasting, but combining the two makes for a capable character. The THAC0 may well stop decreasing at 10, but with helmets, gauntlets, STR enhancing items, magical weapons and effective dual wielding, the THAC0 reaches a state that makes the warrior abilities of the Blade more than capable of dealing with around 95% of enemies. Being able to use chainmail and helmets effectively matches the slow improving AC bonus of the Swashbuckler in the early stages of the game. Then there's the spell buffing. To top this off, the Blade has the Offensive Spin ability which will dish out more damage than even the very high level Swashbucklers, and against even the toughest melee opponents, Defensive Spin = problem solved. It is combining all these abilities into one character that makes the campaign so easy to do with a blade.

I'm not trying to say that Blades will always be better than Swashbucklers, since I like them both very much, I am simply suggesting that Blades are far, far from useless if used properly.

Immune to physical attacks? Surely you jest! DoE+Ronarchs Horn+Jans Adventure Wear(tm) is all a thief can muster through UAI. Lacking AoF, Hardiness and the innate physical defense of a barbarian leaves the thief/bard open to damage from all attacks. Haer'Dalis will beat this due to his natural resistance to physical attacks regardless. A bard doesn't even need UAI to use the DoE or Ronarchs Horn which is a immediate bonus.

If you are referring to spell protections cast from scrolls - again a Blade can do this without UAI so it's pretty much even stevens. If you are referring to a godly AC that can barely be touched, again the Blade has the defensive spin ability, which combined with any armour combination that the Swashbuckler can muster will always be better that the swashbucklers AC bonuses. Sure, the Blade can't move in this state (unless you cheese it with Free Action) but enemies in the game that threaten a great AC will always come to the character anyway. Ultimately - offensive spin matches the offensive capabilities of a Swashbuckler (the Blade is lacking +7 to hit in the most extreme case, but this will only cause problems in the most extreme battles for which spells such as TT will help, or even potions of power if need be), defensive spin surpasses the AC bonus of the Swashbuckler and the spell buffs of the Bard will give him the fighting advantage until the Swashbuckler reaches godly levels.

I stand corrected....Nalia can effectively dual wield once she reaches an extremely high level, or is lucky enough to find a scroll of Time Stop somewhere, as well as possessing arguably the most powerful weapon in the game in her inventory.

Any character becomes a god at high levels, especially in solo games. The question is, who does it better?

List of things where a Blade beats a Fighter/Mage:
Bard Song that barely does anything
A weakened version of the least useful Thieving skill
Woo! High Lore!
Running around real fast

List of things where a Fighter/Mage beats a Blade:
THAC0
AC
Saving Throws
ApR
Hitpoints
Spellslots
Spell levels
Equipment restrictions
Stronghold (not really a power consideration, but still)
Race restrictions


True, that is possible, but I prefer to gain EXP from things like that, instead of using up perfectly good spells that I'd rather use against enemies. (The flip side of that is that the Swashbuckler can't cast spells like Stoneskin and PfMW from memory, of course, but happily there are far fewer battles that would encourage a Swashbuckler's use of those spells than there are Traps in the game.) As for Stealth, you know perfectly well that it's only HiS that will always fail if there's an enemy in your visual range--MS works just fine. If a Swashbuckler needs to vanish when there's a bad guy in sight, a simple Potion will do the trick, and when's the last time you were short of Invisibility Potions?

Capable? Yes. Since all the Blade kits have been soloed all through the game, then by definition they are capable characters. I am simply down on Bards because they are so almost completely eclipsed by the other classes, especially multiclasses. I don't mind a character not being really useful all the time, that'd be too much to expect from anyone. But when I notice that I <u>never</u> say to myself, "Boy, it's a good thing I've got Haer'Dalis in the party!", I tend to file that as a black mark.

Since Bards and Thieves use the same combat numbers, and a Thief can use Ioun Stones, THAC0 gauntlets, STR Girdles, magical weapons, effective dual-wielding, and some nice leather (all good armors in the game have roughly equivalent AC, compare the Melodic Chain with The Night's Gift), the equation boils down to this:
A Blade can kick some major ass when buffed to the gills.
A Swashbuckler is kickass 24/7.

True. I would remove the second 'far,' though.

Oh, I wasn't referring to Resistances, simply to not getting hit at all. The Swashbuckler owns the title of Lowest Permanent AC in the Game (the lowest AC the game will recognize, in fact), and with a few Stoneskin scrolls saved for emergencies, who cares about Physical Resists when there ain't nothing gonna touch you?

Oh, the Staff is only there to knock away Ponty's Stoneskins, doing this technique without it would only require another Time Stop, which would put Nalia at.....4.5 million EXP, which is within the scope of SoA (not even entering WK) with Tactics installed.
As for the alleged rarity of Time Stop scrolls, there are 5 of them in unmodded SoA.
As for Dual-wielding in general, I only picked Nalia as the worst possible example; why Dual with her when she's just fine with Tuigan or Gesen?

Bard Song - agreed, that sucks. A certain ToB HLA nullifies this disadvantage though.

A weakened version of the least useful Thieving skill - True, although there are a couple of instances where being able to pick pockets is useful.

High Lore - simply a time/money saver, although a F/M will have no issues idenfitying anything anyway.

Running around real fast - I assume you mean via Offensive Spin combined with boots of speed? I suppose this at least means that no opponent is going to run away from you (not that this would be much use in game, I agree).

I feel more credit needs to be given to the Offensive/Defensive spins. Offensive spin grants an extra attack - mostly making up for the lack of ApR compared to a warrior, maximum damage from the weapons! - i.e. a super KI that lasts far longer, and +2 to hit and damage which makes up for the lack of specialisation. What does this mean? It means that when dealing with 95% of the foes in the game, the melee offensive abilities of the Blade beat those of a F/M. The other 5% will give the Blade problems due to the relatively poor THAC0, something the warrior classes do not suffer from, but then there's buffing/summoning which the blade can use to help deal with this minority of "thorn/ass interaction" enemies.

THAC0 - agreed.

AC - not really. Defensive spin combined with some decent equipment/chain mail whoops any AC a F/M can come up with, however the F/M can have a superior permanant AC. Once you get UAI - any AC a F/M can manage gets trumped by the Blade.

Saving Throws - true.

ApR - true - However the Blade can get 4 ApR using certain weapons, 5 with OS which has hit the cap anyway.

Hitpoints - I disagree. At the start of SoA, an 89,000XP F/M will have roughly (assuming 18 CON and max D10/D4) (6*((1D10+4)/2)+(6*((1D4+2)/2) = 42+18=60HP. In contrast, an 89,000XP Blade (assuming 16 CON and max D6) will have (8*(1D6+2)) = 64HP.

We can take this to the other extreme of 8 million XP giving 24/20 levels of F/M compared to 40 of Bard:

F/M: ((9*((1D10+4)/2))+(10*((1D4+2)/2))+(15*2)+(10*1)) = 63 (fighter class) + 30 (mage class) + 30 (fighter HP post level 9) + 10 (mage HP post level 10) = 133HP.

Blade: (10*(1D6+2))+(30*2) = 140HP.

So we have 133HP for a F/M, compared to 140HP for a Blade, and that's even with 18CON vs 16.

Spellslots: Agreed.

Spell levels: Agreed, although high level scrolls can still be cast by the Blade.

Equipment restrictions: Agreed, but becomes nullified through UAI.

Stronghold: Bah! But agreed.

Race: Agreed.

The F/M is certainly a superior overall class due to the excellent spell casting power, and I'm not trying to say that a Blade can compete power wise, but for the majority of the game the Blade can hold his own.

This boils down to preference, since in the games I play XP is plentyful anyway, and I don't have a problem with casting stoneskin after a rest anyway due to its long duration, or simply gritting my teeth and taking a butt load of damage from a trap and then getting some healing. It might not be ideal, but the game doesn't neccessitate a thief.

But once hidden in the shadows, the thief requires constant skill checks to ensure that he will remain hidden. This check is an auto fail once a hostile is visible, which will bring the thief out of the shadows regardless of skill. Sure, you can run away and hide again, or quaff a potion, but that was not the point I was making. All I was saying was that invisibility > HiS.

One could argue that multiclasses will always be better than their single class counterparts (with the exception of the mage), as are powergaming dual class characters, which brings into question why play a straight class if there's always a better alternative. One must consider role playing and play style, as well as quicker level progression.

You may not have ever appreciated HD in the party, but with a permanant 60% physical resistance attainable (the highest permamant physical resistance of any other NPC or PC a player can come up with) I've sure been glad to have him from time to time. Again, this is preference.

I guess that's fair enough. I prefer to play a character that requires more patience and nurturing but has excellent potential rather than one that has little depth but has power available on tap.

Yeah I had a feeling I was going a little too far with that one [img]smile.gif[/img]

Rock bottom AC is fair enough, although it doesn't guarantee that you won't get hit. Many bosses have a THAC0 so low that your AC is irrelevant anyway. If the cap is -24 (iirc), and a boss such as Demogorgon has a -19 THAC0 or whatever it is with 4 ApR or something, he isn't going to run into problems hitting you anytime soon...I place far more value on a moderately high AC but with high physical resistances.

On a side note, a Blade can achieve a lower AC than a swashbuckler can. Sure it won't be permamant, but is nontheless manageable. If a swashbuckler can keep piling equipment on until he reaches the cap, that's as far as he's going. This may be considered cheesy (in fact I'm fairly sure it is), but a blade can use his DS (and even improved bard song ability) to actually bypass the AC cap...I need to investigate this more but I'm sure it's possible. Basically, it involves reaching the cap, but still having an abundance of items/abilities left to push the AC beyond the cap, once the cap has been reached.

ARGH! I just did all this research and lost my post...grrrrr......

Anyway, your math is gimped, suffice it to say that the F/M actually ends up with 149 HP, and the Blade ends up with 134.

Second, constant HiS checks are not necesarry when sighting a hostile, you just have to make MS checks every round. HiS only auto-fails if you are in LoS of a hostile.

Third, monsters will always have at least 5% chance to hit you, regardless of what your AC is.

You are omitting 6HP from the Blade because you haven't taken into account (I assume) the fact that rogues roll 10D6+CON bonuses for their hit dice before they receive only 2hp per round (with the exception of mages, all other classes roll 9Dx+CON). Rolling a max of 6 hp + 2 from CON bonus for the first 10 levels = 80 HP. That leaves 30 levels of 2HP = 60hp. 80+60=140HP. If you play on normal or easy difficulty, you get a "bonus" Dx of whatever class you are, so in the case of the Bard, you get a bonus +6hp at the start. Therefore on normal or easy difficulty the final HP of the Bard is 146HP. Try it and see ;) .

As for a F/M, I just created one, set the XP to 8000000 and fully levelled up. The resulting HP was 133. Don't believe me? Again, try it and see. I assume from my earlier calculations that I was in the region of 1HP out for every couple of levels or so (since there is rounding applied with M/C characters). The end result has been the same however, since I assume a F/M gets a free 10hp+4hp at the start so the resulting 133HP turns out to be exactly how I calculated it. How did you arrive at 149? I wouldn't go as far as to say that my math is "gimped" ;) .

I fully stand corrected on this matter. I have certainly been plagued with this problem in the past, but it must have been addressed in a patch because I've just tested it and you are indeed correct.

I never stated otherwise. I would never say that having an AC of X provides immunity from physical attacks because of the chance for enemies to roll a 20 on their hit roll. This is partly why I place more value on physical resistances.

[Edited for spelling]

[ 10-26-2004, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Jim ]

I guess I don't entirely understand how they handled the HP in BG2, I'll have a look in my 2nd Edition PH when I get home, then I'll tell you if it's right or not.

True, but by the time you can get the HLA, your Blade will be stronger fighting than singing, so the only way you can really make it be useful is through Mislead cheese. (Those who actually use Bards should feel free to differ with me on this.)


No, I actually consider speed to be quite a valid asset. For a Tank at least, being the first person seen by an enemy is a definite advantage, and of course running away can always be a big help when you're low on HP, or when you're ambushed by Vampires and you haven't got the Amulet yet.

Your comment about Offensive Spin's ApR is correct--under OS, a Blade will be only 1/2 an attack behind a F/M. But I consider such factors as THAC0 to be far more important than maximum damage with every hit, especially since the damage due to such things as high STR tends to render the damage from the weapon itself rather negligible. When you're hitting for 25 damage per hit, the difference between 1D4 and 1D10 seems rather inconsequential. Therefore, the Blade's got a long way to go before it can "beat those of a F/M."

Ummm--how? By wearing Plate and shooting himself in the foot without his spells?

What's the point of 4 ApR if your weapons don't do anything else and are incapable of hitting the very critters you most need to hit? A F/M can achieve a permanent ApR of 4.5 by dualing Kundane & Your Choice of Nasty Mainhand Weapon.


Okay, point conceded.

Thank you, that brings up another difference: The EXP cap. A Bard will hit Level 39 about 1/4th of the way into ToB, leaving you with virtually no character growth for the rest of the game. A F/M (or any other Multiclass), however, can continue to grow until reaching Level 40 in both classes.


Not sure if this is truly a valid point or not, since Haer'Dalis is so buggy anyway, but his Resistances are anything but consistent in regards to his recruitment level. I sure wish BaldurDash had something conclusive to say about him.....
But what is a valid point is that Haer'Dalis is <u>not</u> a PC Blade, and therefore his Resistances (and weapon specialization) cannot be counted as being part & parcel of the Blade.

Hm. I don't weigh characters by the amount of button-pushing I have to do (although I must admit that my all-Warrior party was my fastest breeze through the game ever), but I suppose this issue is just personal preference.

Yes, which is precisely why I mentioned those "Stoneskin scrolls saved for emergencies," such as Weimer bosses or Critical Strike. Besides, a Swashbuckler can achieve exactly the same physical resists that a Blade can, and as for the F/M vs. Blade comparison, it's better to go the AC route: High Resists are all well and good, but your spells will still get disrupted.

Interesting. Personally, I wouldn't call it cheesy, since the AC cap is only an engine limitation anyway.

Okay...opened up the PH...and it says:

9*10 = 90 (total hit dice for fighter class).
10*4 = 40 (total hit dice for mage class).

40 + 90 = 130.

130 / 2 = 65.

9*4 + 2 = 38 (total con bonus. Period. None of this each class has its own bonus stuff)

65 + 36 = 103.

If the game really divides post max HD hp by 2, then it should be (15*1) + (10*1) (fractions round down) = 25.

103 + 25 = 128.

If it doesn't, then it should be:

(15*3) + (10*1) = 55.

103 + 55 = 158.

My conclusion is that the game uses some gimped form of HP calculation, as the PH says that you take the highest CON bonus, and divide it between the levels, regardless of what the other one is.

So, at character creation you'd get +4 hp, and every time you gained a level in either class you'd go: (hdroll / 2) + (highestconbonus / 2) = total hp gained.

So, because you tested this in the game, then I concede that the HP rolling in the game is messed, and not your math.

Since you got most your questions anwered I will just comment to tell you which mods I recommened...

First my favorite is Unfinished Buisness (wouldn't start a game without it) - it has some good stuff to add my favorite being that it gives Minsc a quest.

I also recomend the banter pack.