I recently started a new game (no mods other than patches, xp cap remover and ease-of-use), and had never played a Kensai before, so chose that as my PCs class. I then dualled to Mage at Kensai level 13, with the intention of being the all-powerful Kensai/Mage. I was in a party with Jaheira, Aerie, Viconia and two "Variable NPC" slots.

I've read all over here and Gamebanshee about how wonderful the Kensai/Mage character is -- how fun and Jedi-like and cheesy. I did notice, however, a few things that annoyed me:

1) No armor or Bracers! My PC kept getting wounded, especially as a Kensai Tank.

2) No missile weapons! Even as a mage, he couldn't stay in back and pop bad guys with his sling.

Needless to say, these two things bugged me. I figured that if the PC had started out as a vanilla fighter, then he would have been much more useful -- since the bracers and sling would be available. Yes, he would lose the Kai ability, but that never seemed to make enough of a difference to be a fair tradeoff.

I haven't really considered the multi-class F/M...

So anyway, what have you BG2 superstars found? And what is, in your opinion, better -- a Kensai/Mage dual, a Fighter/Mage dual or a Fighter/Mage multi?

(Edited to change the word "Gambanshee" to "Gamebanshee" and to point and mock and laugh hysterically at myself for screwing up my first post ever.)

[ 10-10-2004, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Albert Rose ]

Kensai/mages are not suppossed to be tanks. Put a Paladin or Shapeshifter up front, and have your PC second or third in the formation so they can dish-out damage without taking too much.

First, Dirty Meg is right that Kensai/mages are not tanks. Use speed to attack from the flank.

Second, have you regained your kensai abilities yet? If so, the kensai can be a deadly archer using the returning throwing daggers.

Third, if you have regained your kensai abilities then your mage defensive spells should be more than able to compensate for lack of bracers! Stoneskin, Protection from Magic Weapons, Improved Invisibility, etc. etc. etc. Take a few rounds to buff and THEN try to tank!

Finally, I wouldn't consider myself a "superstar" but IMHO a fighter/mage multiclass can be every bit as "powerful" as a kensai-mage dual. The continued gain in fighter ability more than compensates for not having kensai bonuses. That being said, there is that jedi-like quality to the kensai-mage that does have some appeal.

Oh, and welcome to IW!

Welcome to Ironworks! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Kensais do indeed carve through the bad guys - i've soloed a kensai(13)->thief and he we super strong - i actually abandoned the game when he got use any item as i could see it getting a bit dull (even only using daggers . . .)

he was a cool character though

i never used kiai - never seemed to get it to work and the duration seemd to slow to be much use - not that he needed it

i've never played a high level fighter/mage but even with my limited HLA experience i reckon a multiclass fighter-multi will outpower a fighter dual eventually

Welcome to Ironworks Albert Rose! [img]graemlins/thewave.gif[/img]
And IMO i think that high multiclassed characters are always better than dual classed characters...

Welcome to Ironworks. [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]

A Kensai/Mage is better then F/M on the beggining. But in middle and late SoA (preferebly ToB) F/M starts to shine. (If you have ToB: Multi-Class = power. Lots of power.)
They will get high THACO, good protection spells but in ToB certain HLA's make the Gods.

Thanks for the welcomes!

The meat of my question is this: If I start out as a fighter, then dual to mage, is that better than starting out as a kensai, then dualling to mage? It seems to me that a fighter can do anything a kensai can, except for Kai, and has more options on the armor/bracers/missiles front. A fighter=>mage could use the same buffs, and could carve through the naughties just as well as, if not better than, a kensai=>mage.

At least, that's what I thought. I've not done either, though, and was looking for opinions. Thanks for sharing!

The multi-class F/M would be my choice, if playing on through ToB.

The Kensai gets a much better THAC0 at low level, -2 to AC, bonuses to damage and speed, depending on how many levels you take. KAI can help especially at low levels.

The best way for you is to test a couple of char's with SK and check their stats. You'll probably dual at level 9 if you play SOA only so check the differences between kensai and fighter at that level.

And remember: THAC0 doesn't matter in Time Stop. :D

the AC question is partly about equipment - for 'best' armour you'll be wanting the robe of vecna (probably, aerie could make good use of it too) which give AC of 5 then your kensai bonus would give AC of 3

a different fighter could wear bracers to get AC of 3 so no difference there

the clincher for your party setup might be that all of your core NPCs are clerics so you've got no-one that can reliably use a bow - bow's are very useful, easily available, your first free source of elemental damage for mages and trolls - might be the clincher against the kensai

[ 10-12-2004, 03:52 AM: Message edited by: Armen ]

Bladesinger Chain +4 is very good for mages, sorcerers, etc because it gives an AC of 1 and you can cast spells while wearing it. The only thing is that you get it at the end of SoA.

[ 10-12-2004, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: Moon-Child_Lman ]

Fighter/Mage
Advantages: Access to both the Fighter and Mage ToB High-Level Ability pools, more weapon proficiency points, more hitpoints, better Saving Throws, better THAC0, no long period of being handicapped waiting to regain your skills, can use any weapon or armor, potential of playing a Fighter/Illusionist.
Disadvantages: Lower number of high-level spellslots, takes longer to access those spell levels, cannot go higher than 2 stars in any weapon.

Fighter->Mage
Advantages: Can Tank during the early game and be a high-level Wizard during the late game, gains Mage levels rapidly, can achieve Grandmastery in any weapon, can wear armor.
Disadvantages: Virtually handicapped while waiting to regain Fighter half, no Fighter HLAs, rather poor THAC0 and Saving Throws.

Kensai->Mage
Advantages: Can Grandmaster in any melee weapon, okay THAC0, can be very powerful in late-game major battles, gains Mage levels rapidly.
Disadvantages: Virtually handicapped while waiting to regain Fighter half, no Fighter HLAs, rather poor Saving Throws, can never wear any Bracers, armor, helms, or shields, and can only use Throwing Daggers (cheesy) and Throwing Spears (most of which are incredicheesy) for permanent ranged weapons.

Mage->Fighter (Dualed at Level 2)
Advantages: Can use all Mage items (Amulet of Power, Staff of the Magi), can cast 2 or 3 Level 1 spells per day, can cast spells from scrolls (Stoneskin, PfMW) in full armor and mid-battle, can Grandmaster in any weapon, better THAC0, hitpoints & Saving Throws, and the game's AI treats you like a Mage, causing enemies to target you with spells like Breach and Ruby Ray when you're not even using any protections.
Disadvantages: Cannot choose a kit, no Mage HLAs, and some Usability errors will prevent you from using certain scrolls (some Stoneskin scrolls, for example).

Thank you, SixOfSpades, for your comprehensive answer. It looks like I'd be better off doing a fighter=>mage instead of a kensai=>mage, with mostly the same strengths and fewer weaknesses. In a long, ToB game, I'd probably go with the fighter/mage multi-class.

kensai-mage or f/m multiclass is the best in my book.
which is beter for YOU depends on what YOU want your character to be like.