<font color=plum>I recently entered the Bridge District with my solo Bard and met the Guard Captain warning me about the murders in the area. I decided to help investigate and went through the preliminary steps. Then I went to see the tanner. He didn't offer any information and I was giving 3 dialogue options.
<font color=lime>
1) I'll leave for now, but this isn't over.
2) Sorry to have bothered you.
3) Perhaps I should just kill you anyway to be certain.</font>

My bard is Neutral Good, so I chose #2 to start with. I left the building, then immediately returned. In previous games, the tanner was usually gone on my second visit, but this time he was still here. I spoke to him again and chose option #1 this time. He said he would have armed guards when I returned. OK, now we're getting somewhere. I rested for the night and went back the next day. Sure enough, he had 3 guards, but none of them turned hostile. I questioned the tanner yet again, and got the same 3 dialogue options.

So now I'm stuck. Apparantly, I have to choose option #3 to initiate any hostilities. But I just can't see my bard doing that from a roleplaying standpoint.I did try to go on down the stairs beside the tanner with him standing there, but the game said "It wouldn't be prudent to search the house with the owner standing there in plain sight".

Is this a bug, or do I really have to threaten the tanner before this particular quest will proceed? If so, then I guess I'll just skip that part. I have no intention of using the item I could eventually gain from the quest and I can't envision a Neutral Good Bard threatening to kill the tanner just to make him attack.</font>

Why don't you find out everything about the murder. Have you talked to Rampah, the beggar? Have you questioned Rose, the prostitute about the scent that was at one of the murders. Have you talked to Mrs. Ican'trememberhername who's supposed to be a witch? That way Aegisfield himself will try and solve things (the way the quest is supposed to happen)

<font color=plum>Yes, I've talked to Rampah and Rose. That's what I meant by having "done the preliminary steps". I haven't talked to the witch yet, I don't think that dialogue prompt has come up yet.

Since I'm playing a bard, I spent the night at the Five Flagons Inn and learned of another quest that is much more suited to my talents and interests. I'll get back to the Murder Mystery after rescuing the lost member of the acting troupe.</font>

You must have a certain item dropped at one of the crime scenes, you must know what the item is (talk to the seller that buys), you must have the testimony of an eyewitness, and you must have her identify what she smelled (again, talk to the seller that buys). If you did all THAT and you can't talk the tanner into fessing up... something is very very wrong.

Talk to the merchant next to rose he'll give you items. then talk to the hooker again

<font color=plum>OK, let me go into more detail.

I talked to Rampah and took the item he offered. I spoke to Rose, retrieved the needed items, and asked her to identify the smell. I thought that would have been fairly clear since I went to the Tanner's house after doing these steps.

Now I'm wondering if my game might have a bug regarding the spawning of certain Quest Characters. I never did find Igarol when trying to do Cernd's Quest - and when I CLUAConsoled him in, he wouldn't talk to me. Now I've been told on the forum about a witch that I don't remember any game dialogue leading me to - so I'm wondering if that aspect failed to spawn also.

Well, the Quest isn't Fubarred yet. In fact, it is still going on. I could threaten the Tanner, but that simply doesn't fit my character's personality. If that means I don't complete the quest, that's OK. I know how it plays out and my character would not be interested in the item the quest eventually leads to.

Still, I will look for the witch after I rescue Haer'Dalis and complete the Astral Prison Quest and see if I can end up solving the murders also.</font>

SPOILER


speak to the tramp near a pillar, he will give you a hide, take that to the merchant bloke and then go to officer...as well as identifying smell

You need to know what the hide is, exactly. Talk to the merchant again.

Edit- And for the record, not only is it possible to do this without the Lieutenant, but it's generally better for all involved to leave him out of it.

[ 08-08-2004, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: Illumina Drathiran'ar ]

<font color=plum>Let me try this one last time.

<font color=yellow>I DID SPEAK TO RAMPAH AND GOT THE HIDE!
I DID SPEAK TO ROSE AND HAD HER IDENTIFY THE SMELL!
THAT IS WHAT LED ME TO THE TANNER'S HOUSE TO BEGIN WITH!!!</font>

Sorry about that, but I said in my very first post that I had taken the preliminary steps in this Quest. The fact that I was at the Tanner's house should have been an indication that I had already done the steps with Rampah and Rose.

I do appreciate the responses and advice so far. Please forgive my brief Barbarian Rage. It has passed and I am once again my cool, collected, and "Calmth" self. ;) </font>

Did you try talking to Rampah? [img]smile.gif[/img] Sorry... couldn't resist.

When you say he didn't offer any information, does that mean you had dialogue options *before* the ones listed above? If so, what were they?

Also, I guess we could go the "check your GLOBAL variables" route again. Looking through a save after completing the Tanner investigation, I found these which look like they involve the Skinner murders...

GAVESMELLYITEMS = 1
MURDERSOLVED = 1
SKINWENTHOSTILE = 1
TALKEDTOHOOKER1 = 1
TALKEDTOHOOKER2 = 1
TALKEDTOINSPECTOR = 1
TANNERMOVE = 1
TANNERPLOT2 = 5 (this is the one I bet you could experiment with)
TOOLATETANNER = (timer variable)

I can't find anything that looks like it deals with Rampah so you could check your value, but there's bound to be one - I was just skimming down the list so I might have missed it if it wasn't obvious.

- Imrahil

You still left out the question of,

Have you asked the merchant to identify the Hide?

<font color=plum>You're right, <font color=red>Dundee</font>, I have not asked the merchant to identify the Hide yet. I will do that after finishing the Astral Prison and see what happens then.</font>

Er, Cerek, that was suggested a couple of posts ago by numerous people you know ;) The 'witch' dialogue doens't take you anywhere, true, but as it is involved in the quest, I wasn't sure whether or not it was important.

<font color=plum>Yes, <font color=white>Link</font>, I realize that. But I had already started quest to rescue Haer'Dalis by then, and now it seems he needs to be rescued from an Astral Prison.

Actually, I've been looking forward to the Astral Prison Quest ever since leaving Chateau Irenicus because it has two items my bard really needs - the Melodic Chain Mail and a pair of Boots of Speed. I actually wanted to start that quest before the Murder Mystery, but I also knew that clearing out the Tanner's House - while challenging - doesn't take that long.

The reason I ranted a couple of posts ago is because people were still saying "Talk to Rampah (or beggar/street urchin/etc) and talk to Rose too". I stated in my opening post that I had already taken both of these steps to begin the Murder Mystery Quest, but I still had people saying "You need to talk to Rampah and Rose".

I didn't mean to get "testy", it just seemed like some people weren't even reading the posts I had made up to that point.

Anyway, I've entered the Astral Prison and defeated the bounty hunters (with a lot less hassle than I anticipated. I should be able to finish the Prison either tonight or tomorrow, because none of the other fights are terribly hard until I get to the Head Warden Cambion. I plan to try my very first <font color=coral>Tenser's Transformation</font> in that battle. Once I get back to the Prime Material Plane, I will go back to the merchant and have him Identify the Hide - then we will see if my Bridge District Murder Quest is really "buggered" or not.</font>

If you get stuck on the premliminary stuff, you can just attack the tanner. It does the same, I think.

<font color=plum>Welcome Back, <font color=orange>Sir G.</font> Long time, no see.

Yes, I could just attack the tanner, but as I mentioned a couple of times before, that goes against the principles of this particular character. I even regret killing the old man's pet Carrion Crawler under the Copper Coronet just to get a sword I wasn't even going to use.

So, from a roleplaying standpoint, attacking the tanner without provocation isn't an option.</font>

I very much respect you and your roleplaying, Cerek, as I really can't be up to it to play in character all too much. In the end, I like the storyline better than any limitations I put on myself and/or my character.

And about your rant; I know people who rant a lot more direct than you do ;) Cerek the Calmth might even be an understatement :D [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

<font color=plum>Ahhhh.....thanks for the compliment, <font color=white>Link</font>. I appreciate it. I admit that - in my first BGII game - I didn't roleplay nearly as well. I was playing a Chaotic Neutral Wizard Slayer (which would allow me to do pretty much whatever I wanted to), but I still did things in the game the character normally wouldn't do just to gain extra treasure or experience (like taking the "ransom payment" for the lady in the Bridge District so that I could eventually get the Big Metal Unit in ToB).

As for my bard, I'm definitely having fun roleplaying him. I have the Multiple Stronghold option installed, but I can't see him being interested in the Thieve's Guild or the Planar Sphere. He might be interested in De'Arnise keep (just because of the prestige that goes with it), but I don't anticipate him seeking any other strongholds. On the other hand, my FIRST PC to play with the Multiple Stronghold option is an assassin. He most definitely DOES want to have all the strongholds, because that will increase his wealth and power. He wants to be one of the most powerful figures in Akthahla and having control of all the strongholds is one way to ensure he has a hand in almost anything that happens.

My roleplaying even led to some interesting situations in my PnP days. I had a ranger/barbarian duo that I used to play a lot. They always traveled and adventured together. One afternoon, my roommate set up a quick encounter for them. We were exploring and found a cave full of Stone Giants. Naturally, my ranger and barbarian both attacked the giants quickly and without mercy - only to have the "father" return home after we just finished killing his family and start wailing over the death of his loved ones. THAT'S when I remembered that Stone Giants are NEUTRAL - not evil. Needless to say, my ranger felt horrible about acting out of ignorance and attacking without provocation.

Several levels later, I was playing the ranger and barbarian in a game under a different DM. We were escorting a caravan and came upon a group of Stone Giants as we negotiated our way through a narrow mountain pass. The DM was all ready to start rolling the dice for initiatives and "to hit" rolls, until I announced that my ranger REFUSED to attack the giants.
[img]graemlins/jawdrop.gif[/img]
{hehe} The look on the DM's face was priceless. The caravan was trying to build/establish a trade route between two major cities. When I refused to attack the Stone Giants and destroy their home, the DM had to change his game around and re-route the Trade Route. [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img]

Several days ago, one of the newer members posted that it was easiest to roleplay your PC the first time through BGII, but after that it was harder to do, because you would "justify" your characters actions in any way necessary to get the treasure or experience you wanted. I disagree. The first time through is generally when players are the greediest and want everything for their character. For me, it is much easier this time to say "OK, if I have to threaten the tanner in order to proceed, I'll simply skip this particular quest."</font>

I can understand both your opinions on the matter but IMHO both ideas are debatably close(st) to the definition of roleplaying. On the one hand you've got a newbie player, who does NOT know the consequences of his actions. This way, he does not know about any treasures, experience gain, or anything to come. Therefore the consequences are truly unexpected, and he just has to deal with the results.
On the other hand, your opinion is roleplaying as well. You know the outcome of the battle, you know the treasures that are available, but purely from the viewpoint of your character you decide whether or not to actually take that treasure, kill that monster, etc.

I think it's just a matter of different having a different opinion [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color=plum>You're right, <font color=red>Dundee</font>, I have not asked the merchant to identify the Hide yet. I will do that after finishing the Astral Prison and see what happens then.</font> </font>[/QUOTE]<font color=plum>Well that did the trick. When I went back to the tanner and informed him that I knew about the elephant hide as well as the distinctive smell left at the scene of the crime, he realized the charade was up and his guards attacked while he made his escape. I dealt with his cronies and associates easily enough (in fact, a lot easier than I remembered the fight being from my last game). I then reported my findings back to the Guard Captain and recieved ample reward for my efforts. [img]graemlins/cool.gif[/img] </font>

That particular fight seems to vary in difficulty for me, even between reloads. I think it's just how lucky/unlucky your opponents/you get.

<font color=plum>Welcome Back, <font color=orange>Sir G.</font> Long time, no see.

Yes, I could just attack the tanner, but as I mentioned a couple of times before, that goes against the principles of this particular character. I even regret killing the old man's pet Carrion Crawler under the Copper Coronet just to get a sword I wasn't even going to use.

So, from a roleplaying standpoint, attacking the tanner without provocation isn't an option.</font> </font>[/QUOTE]Ah, ok. I, myself, have never done all the 'proper' steps to that quest. Always play evil characters, so I just go at him. [img]tongue.gif[/img]